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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I think it's more that a lot if the difficulty is beating the enrage timer, which is pretty unforgiving for some of the best players on the planet using the best gear available in the game and class stacking DoT specs like there's no tomorrow. This isn't a DPS check boss that can be made far easier in the span of a few weeks thanks to the raid gaining 10-15 overall ilvls, most raids have players already in their BiS or close enough to it without factoring in godly TFs or loot from M Uu'nat, we just aren't as good as the likes of Limit and can't class stack half as well as them.

    I'd be very surprised if this boss makes it to next week without a nerf, personally.
    Well just because you have the best car doesn't mean you can drive the fastest. There are plenty of mistakes that the players are making and quite frankly, some of the other guilds that are less watched have been playing a lot better. If you see class stacked raids have a near perfect pull while not meeting the enrage, then that's a problem - just like it was on Avatar M. Killing the boss in this state will be very satisfying.

    That said, I do expect it to get nerfed in a matter of few weeks.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Well just because you have the best car doesn't mean you can drive the fastest. There are plenty of mistakes that the players are making and quite frankly, some of the other guilds that are less watched have been playing a lot better. If you see class stacked raids have a near perfect pull while not meeting the enrage, then that's a problem - just like it was on Avatar M. Killing the boss in this state will be very satisfying.

    That said, I do expect it to get nerfed in a matter of few weeks.
    I think you way underestimate the effects of the class stacking and how much Limit benefits from it. Priests can not only dispel the debuff on themselves more easily than any other class, but being able to cleave on this boss makes the enrage timer far, far easier to handle thus allowing you to potentially take fewer risks with the debuff. And the non-Limit/Method guilds are having a hard time pushing the boss in time despite having better rosters than my guild has. As Fury I'm likely to feel useless on this fight, even more than on Jaina. Blizzard needs to rethink how they design Mythic a bit methinks, Legion had periods of class stacking troubles but this is reaching worse than BRF levels of anti-melee bullshit.

    And I'm wary of a first boss that would require a completely perfect pull to kill if you can't have 8 to 10 geared Spriests and Locks in your raid. For Uu'nat, maaaaybe demand that, but for these two jokers? Odyn didn't have anywhere near this sort of composition and DPS requirement.

  3. #223
    If you are a melee you are a burden in BfA tbh. Really bad Mythic design. Class stacking all the way.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiteck View Post
    ofc Method will win, its really not a race anymore. Haven't been since Paragon stopped raiding
    It wasn't even a real race in WoD. Outside of Paragon winning Highmaul, they got absolutely crushed in Blackrock Foundry by 5 days and Hellfire Citadel by nearly 2 days.

    Limit's Ghuun was a much closer race than Paragon's blackrock Foundry or Paregon's Hellfire Citadel.

    Hell Jaina was even a closer race than BRF or HFC.

    But my main point is the gap between world 1st and the world 2nd kill hasn't been as close as it was in Uldir in years. In fact, I can't even think of a race that was that close.
    Last edited by Poe; 2019-04-24 at 02:31 PM.
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Why does it need a nerf?
    Because if any guild in the top 5,000 hits enrage timer while outgearing it by 10 item levels it is obviously broken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    Looks like Limit stopped fucking around indeed (wipe at 20-25%). The boss should die soon.

    An another note: the small add dying and resurrecting constantly is such a bulshit mechanic to trigger twist of fate reliably.
    Once people stop messing up mechanics they'll start wiping to enrage timer. HP is obviously tuned too high.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Because if any guild in the top 5,000 hits enrage timer while outgearing it by 10 item levels it is obviously broken.

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    Once people stop messing up mechanics they'll start wiping to enrage timer. HP is obviously tuned too high.
    No, once people learn to play the encounter properly, it will die.

  7. #227
    I am Murloc! hellhamster's Avatar
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    That enrage timer tells me this is gonna be nuts for non-hardcore guilds. Top guilds are having issues with class stacking and bis gear.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    That enrage timer tells me this is gonna be nuts for non-hardcore guilds. Top guilds are having issues with class stacking and bis gear.
    I am 100% certain that it's just tuned like this for now for top guilds to have some fun instead of finishing it in 2 days.
    After they finish the race, it will be nerfed quite a bit.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbler View Post
    75% would be really bad for them, shadow had bad single target for a long time with the reason being they had good 2-3 target cleave. It didn't work out for them. You'd see guilds maybe using one shadow priest. The only thing you can guarantee in a boss fight is there will be at least one boss. Let classes have good single target and also a niche they can have fun with every once in a while. Blizzard has just been using fights that favor multidotting classes a lot recently. They should get a nerf but blizzard should also take into account multidotting classes when designing encounters.
    Right, only one shadow priest is bad, but zero hunters, warriors, mages, rogues, and death knights is just fine.


    There shouldn't ever be more than 1 shadow priest per raid with the available number of DPS classes and specs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    No, once people learn to play the encounter properly, it will die.
    Enjoy LFR man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The difference is they're so far ahead, that they warrant nerfs. They're ahead in single target, they're ahead in multidot, they're ahead in AoE. And it's not even a marginal number they're ahead by a good 9% in most cases, in overall dazar'alor they're 35% ahead of the lowest DPS spec, this is unacceptable and warranting of nerfs for these specs, or buffs for the substantially guttered specs to bring them into par.
    Two of the bottom four specs are Enhancement and Survival, which were gutted by improper azerite power nerfs that weren't accompanied by baseline damage buffs.

    Sure, one azerite power being better than the next by 50%-100% wasn't good, but you can't just change that and then do nothing else for two tiers. Both those specs need a minimum of a flat 10% damage buff. 20% is probably more reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Right so by the looks of it, "tuned like Rastakhan/Mekka" was a bit of a misconception. This is a 100+ pull boss for sure in its current state.

    What's more worrying is the enrage timer for the amount of HP the boss has, and its relevance even for guilds that feature top of the line gear, players and insane class stacking. Us plebs that haven't killed Jaina yet have little chance of getting this boss down without an absolutely flawless pull, or a nerf.
    Safe to say if your guild doesn't have 4+ shadow priests with 415+ ilvl there is no point in attempting mythic.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  10. #230
    all mortal guilds who dont have 10 spriest/locks in 415-420 bis gear and not able to play 12+ hrs per day. have no reason to set foot in this raid, before its nerfed.

  11. #231
    Is this 8.2 content released early?

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Enjoy LFR man.
    lol, well, unlike you, I've actually played at that level.

    http://www.multitwitch.tv/nurseos/me.../limit_maximum
    This is the ultimate view.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    What's taking Limit so long? They have such an extraordinary advantage over an average team composition with the sheer amount of class stacking that they've done. It should've died a while ago.
    To get enough DPS to beat the enrage timer you have to let your DPS get enough debuff to lower their HP into one-shot range for unavoidable damage.

    Other guilds may not understand this mechanic and therefore are making it to enrage and failing the DPS check.

    Seems like this fight has a bit of pre-nerf M'uru to it. Some RNG with what hits whom and when can screw everything.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    To get enough DPS to beat the enrage timer you have to let your DPS get enough debuff to lower their HP into one-shot range for unavoidable damage.

    Other guilds may not understand this mechanic and therefore are making it to enrage and failing the DPS check.

    Seems like this fight has a bit of pre-nerf M'uru to it. Some RNG with what hits whom and when can screw everything.
    No guild has hit enrage with everyone alive, stop being autistic.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    It's pretty insane that these top guilds are all pretty close to the gear cap and still struggling so much to down the first boss...
    Once you release a boss too low and everyone facerolls it you can never get it back.

    It is better to intentionally overtune it and nerf it after people bang their heads on it for a few days.

    It may not be mathematically impossible right now, but it probably is pretty close. Give it a week and someone in the top 10 will get enough RNG to clear it, probably. Will need significant nerfs after that. (aka more than 20% HP) Some top guilds have been 50M HP off on a 250M HP encounter (20%). 185M HP is probably where they end up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    There isn't any other interesting content to care about overall.
    WoW is a game about raiding, so that makes sense.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Some top guilds have been 50M HP off on a 250M HP encounter (20%). 185M HP is probably where they end up.
    How dense are you? Limit was on 9% of 147M + 7% of 115M = 21M with many people dead for a good bit. Just a learn the fight issue.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Once you release a boss too low and everyone facerolls it you can never get it back.

    It is better to intentionally overtune it and nerf it after people bang their heads on it for a few days.

    It may not be mathematically impossible right now, but it probably is pretty close. Give it a week and someone in the top 10 will get enough RNG to clear it, probably. Will need significant nerfs after that. (aka more than 20% HP) Some top guilds have been 50M HP off on a 250M HP encounter (20%). 185M HP is probably where they end up.

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    WoW is a game about raiding, so that makes sense.
    The problem with tuning a boss for perfect execution and a full raid of shadow priests is all the other 400 guilds who've killed Jaina but have sane rosters are wasting their time.

  18. #238
    We know Blizz obviously tuned this raid to give top guilds something to do until Azshara. Still extremely lame to design a raid that 90% of guilds shouldn't even bother stepping into.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Weren't two of the priests healers? Not that it change much :P

    "Maybe add a diminishing return on dots, the same as in most conventional AoE... " Exactly. I'm not sure why they are not doing this. Would make sense.
    That's be interesting. Make it so if you DoT 3 mobs with the same spell, they take 1/3rd the damage each from the DoT.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    As Fury I'm likely to feel useless on this fight, even more than on Jaina. Blizzard needs to rethink how they design Mythic a bit methinks, Legion had periods of class stacking troubles but this is reaching worse than BRF levels of anti-melee bullshit.
    Haven't actually paid too close attention to the encounter but being even more useless than there is certainly quite a statement.

    I still think it isn't the encounter design per se. It's just not feasible to have specs only be remotely usable when all adds are standing together in one place or you require tons of kicks with short cooldowns. It limits encounter design far too much. Losing uptime as a melee to any sort of mechanic or just not having every add easily reachable are just too basic building blocks of encounters to be ignored while balancing.

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