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  1. #21
    Bad troll is bad, at least try...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    So I've been out from WoW for quite some time (2013) but classic bring memories (vanila 450days played) as competitive RL, theorycrafter (hi ElitistJerks!), mage 672spell dmg and 33% crit and than top feral in next expansions.

    Let me tell things that I havent seen being mentioned or taken deep thought.
    I might consider playing very casually but things need to be taken with a bit of a thought.

    1. Debuff limit this has to go or increased limit. Its just plain wrong and stupid to have those discussions. This will need balancing though.
    Agree. it Was technical limitation of the time and it doesn't make sense to keep it.
    2. Gear/Items stat remaster/balancing. For many classes you DO NOT WANT to wear Epic quality stuff untill VERY VERY late in the game (even BWL+), the blue items are often superior to BWL+ gear. Basic example is spell damage/crit gear for mages. On top of that many epic items are useless for even offspecs due to terrible stat alocation making some offspec classes literally UNPLAYABLE.
    Yep. Itemizaiton in vanilla is BROKEN
    3. Shaman/Paladin for both factions.
    No, factions should be distinct from each other and having different classes available is a great way to do it.
    4. Anyone remember shaman totems affecting only his 5 man group in a raid? On top of shuffling them in group for Mana Tides for damage/healers etc? Make totems raid wide? Back than groups were not locked in combat due to it.
    Agree. Shaman totems being group only were a technical limitation, it was confirmed in Countdowntoclassic podcast by the ex-vanilla dev.
    5. TF bracers drop too random. Item used to be a bit broken for raiding, tough luck if you havent seen second binding drop or very late in NAXX.
    6. Mage trinkets ZHC + TOEP bring back the love again.
    7. Buffing needs to be AOE raid wide.
    No, raid buff management is an integral part of support gameplay.
    8. Some specs need A LOT LOVE in both spell balancing/mana/talents and item stat alocation to make them vialable. This will be tough on people who will eventually get cornered into 1 spec or rerolling due to being useless if they want to raid as certain type of class i.e dmg dealer/tank/healer.
    Agree. Items and spec balance are two weakest points of Classic wow.
    9. I wanted to say sth about MC fire resist gear being random due to MC drops (which you could have farmed with new instance ID's )but im not sure if under current level of player skill it would actually make a difference.
    10. Silithus grind - was it for the mage BIS ring? ;-)
    It also has nice healer necklace and tanking shield in case you were unlucky with zg/bwl drops also some blues might roll very nice
    11. Aoe looting
    Not necessary but whatever.
    12. Bag space...
    13. Bring back good old Alterac Valley.
    14. High end BG without top end RAID GEAR is IMPOSSIBLE or IMBALANCED. Im sorry guys but BG gear was almost useless. Those games vs premades were amazing though!
    Separating PVE and PVP into two different play "modes" was a mistake.
    15. THREAT and Taunt immune bosses and threat ceilings - I hope it will be kept as it used to be. This is gonna be a major what the heck moment for many who never played in Vanilla. TAUNT PLEASE!!! I hope they stick to original.
    16. Instance raid entrance fights <3

    17. Due to many above there needs to be done quite sophisticated encounter balancing and I guess player skill level raised over the years though im not sure about the latter ;D
    Hey, i was playing wow since mid TBC and i've never experienced the original 2004-2006 vanilla so i don't have any nostalgia about it, i've only tried it on Nostalrius in 2016 levelled a priest to 60 and cleared MC/BWL/ZG and was preparing for AQ. With that said i'm EXTREMELY hyped for Classic release because even with its obvious flaws vanilla wow is a much better MMORPG than current version of WoW.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Villentretenmerth View Post
    Bad troll is bad, at least try...
    I'd be shocked if this was a troll. They haven't posted on MMOC in 3 years.

  4. #24
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    So I've been out from WoW for quite some time (2013) but classic bring memories (vanila 450days played) as competitive RL, theorycrafter (hi ElitistJerks!), mage 672spell dmg and 33% crit and than top feral in next expansions.

    Let me tell things that I havent seen being mentioned or taken deep thought.
    I might consider playing very casually but things need to be taken with a bit of a thought.

    1. Debuff limit this has to go or increased limit. Its just plain wrong and stupid to have those discussions. This will need balancing though.
    2. Gear/Items stat remaster/balancing. For many classes you DO NOT WANT to wear Epic quality stuff untill VERY VERY late in the game (even BWL+), the blue items are often superior to BWL+ gear. Basic example is spell damage/crit gear for mages. On top of that many epic items are useless for even offspecs due to terrible stat alocation making some offspec classes literally UNPLAYABLE.
    3. Shaman/Paladin for both factions.
    4. Anyone remember shaman totems affecting only his 5 man group in a raid? On top of shuffling them in group for Mana Tides for damage/healers etc? Make totems raid wide? Back than groups were not locked in combat due to it.
    7. Buffing needs to be AOE raid wide.
    8. Some specs need A LOT LOVE in both spell balancing/mana/talents and item stat alocation to make them vialable. This will be tough on people who will eventually get cornered into 1 spec or rerolling due to being useless if they want to raid as certain type of class i.e dmg dealer/tank/healer.




    17. Due to many above there needs to be done quite sophisticated encounter balancing and I guess player skill level raised over the years though im not sure about the latter ;D
    most of what I excerpted above would require your 17 to happen to avoid this functioning as a mass nerf. I think it would be much more likely they would do some or all of your list and NOT re-balance bosses.

    shamans/paladins actually could happen (there was no lore reason to keep blood elves out of classic after having played them in war3), and would greatly simplify the rebalancing I don't think would happen anyway.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    I never said I want to go back to raiding, nor I think I have time to dedicate myself to it. You are missing the point, its purely sharing experience. I don't think there are many players left on current servers that experienced and remember the Vanilla experience past MC, I wish to be proven wrong though.

    My guess is there will be a lot players appealed to Classic, but their idea and expectations will hit the reality fast.
    Vanila to this days is very idealised becouse of nostalgy, but my idea is to share some experiences that might have been forgotten.

    My personal opinion is that Vanilla was trully about raiding. The content almost solely was about raiding, many might not agree but if you didn't raid there was very few things to do beside grinds which purpose was again raiding in most cases. PVP? You must raid!

    Shall I even bother to say that I think you guys don't even read what is written?
    You are lost in the sauce my dude lol. Most people never even saw molten core. Dungeons/pvp/leveling/twinking were far more popular activities, and im sure blizzard has the numbers to support this.

    And classic needs to stay classic for reasons, reasons that should be very obvious to people....especially someone who claims to have played then.
    Last edited by Fascinate; 2019-04-21 at 12:05 PM.

  6. #26
    No changes please! Classic is not for you.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    How much does it differ from running 8 to 10 mages and rogues and BG having very similar background with very specific classes wanted with PVE GEAR.

    The balance needs to happen to even make some classes playable which were NEVER used in normal raids.. I dont even talk about hardcore raiding.

    Number tweaking imo is a must for both classes, items, specs, talents.
    No. Balancing doesn't have to happen. YOU wan't it to happen, because you don't like the idea of playing vanilla again. It's okay, you have that opinion, I'm not gonna play it again either, but it is just your opinion and nothing else. They absolutely should not balance or change anything.

    With 450 days played in vanilla, why do you even think balancing is necessary? Blizzards design philosophy was vastly different back then. Some classes and specs were designed on purpose to be average at best. Support classes like paladins, druids or shamans, which are a jack of all trades, should not be able to compete with a pure DPS class. That was the design philosophy at that time. The term "balance" meant something totally different than it does today.

    Classic is a recreation of vanilla as authentic as possible. It's a retro game. It's a museum. It's a chance for veterans to revisit the game and new players to discover the roots of WoW.

    The primary audience for Classic are the veterans. The veterans know exactly what they're getting into. In fact many of them have probably played vanilla on private servers over the years. They won't be shocked. This is exactly what they have asked for. 12 year old Fortnite/BFA players will be shocked. That's okay. Some games are not for everyone - Classic is certainly not.
    Last edited by Thomgan; 2019-04-21 at 01:00 PM.

  8. #28
    It's been said a lot, but part of the charm about vanilla is all the stuff you are listing. It's a package kind of thing. You make a change here and there, adjust and tinker..
    And then suddenly it isn't the same game anymore. I can't speak for everyone, but I will be playing the hell out of classic for years to come exactly BECAUSE it is as close a simulation to the original vanilla as Blizzard can realistically manage. The whole "change this and that to make it a better game" will in my case at least not make it a better game, it will remove the entire point in going back to play it. I don't want a new wow, or indeed a new game at all. I essentially want to return to the game of the past.

    I assume I am not alone in this, since Blizzard appears to be listening very much to this particular sentiment. It seems there must be some sort of audience for this.
    For the same of this audience who wanted the original vanilla experience back (for years now), and the gaming experience they are now finally having returned to them (by the looks of it), I at least personally would appreciate if people would tune down the epiphany posts that appear a lot where some person comes to tell we that dwell in the classic forum how vanilla should have this or that and would be much better if only Blizzard did so and so. We know vanilla isn't balanced. We know it was a total mess. This is the experience we want. We don't want anyone to "fix"it, we are happy with it as it is. We want it as it is. And we (I assume I'm not alone, but I fully realize there are many others who indstead DO want a tuned and adapted vanilla) are by the looks of how Blizzard is handling this the main target audience.

    Obviously this is a forum and people can discuss and suggest anything they want, but it is quite honestly rather disrespectful towards those of us who know exactly what vanilla was, and exactly what kind of classic we will be getting if they dont make drastic changes, to insinuate that we "are in for a rude awakening" and such things.
    Your suggestions are fair from a balancing point of view but they would ruin the entire point of what Blizzard is trying to do, so I think, as sorry as I am to say it, that WoW classic is probably not aimed at people like you. We will see what the future brings, but for now I think your "I might be interested, but they would need to change these 17 things first"-list is likely better aimed at a more "once classic has run for a while, provided there is an audience for it, if there were to be a nuanced somewhat adjusted version this is my wishlist" kind of thread, rather than suggest changes at the version coming out this summer where such changes have specifically been rejected thoroughly for the very reason to avoid changing anything on the gameplay level.
    It's a bit like making a 17 point list of suggestions to change the Starbucks Latte into fruit juice. I'm sure a lot of arguments could be made why fruit juice would better, but people are likely ordering the latte because they want coffee (or milk). Those that want fruit juice should instead perhaps try another store?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Did you even read anything or are you just eager to show off how dumb you can sound?
    I'm really eager to show how much I want retail kids have as little as possible with Classic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    shamans/paladins actually could happen (there was no lore reason to keep blood elves out of classic after having played them in war3), and would greatly simplify the rebalancing I don't think would happen anyway.
    There is. There are no blood elves left in Azeroth, they all left to Draenor with Kael'Thas. If you played WC3 you would know that.
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  10. #30
    Weird flex.. anyone else remember how much spell dmg and crit they had 14 years ago?
    Gather heroes, sound the drums. The Thunder King comes

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by RushRush View Post
    Weird flex.. anyone else remember how much spell dmg and crit they had 14 years ago?
    After you spend so much time with char, tables, theorycraft, numbers, gear those numbers stick to you I think I still have my T3/T4 gear on my mage but I cant log.

    It's been too much though looking back in time.
    Last edited by Sorcereria; 2019-04-21 at 03:40 PM.

  12. #32
    2. Gear/Items stat remaster/balancing. For many classes you DO NOT WANT to wear Epic quality stuff untill VERY VERY late in the game (even BWL+), the blue items are often superior to BWL+ gear. Basic example is spell damage/crit gear for mages. On top of that many epic items are useless for even offspecs due to terrible stat alocation making some offspec classes literally UNPLAYABLE.
    This is one thing i noticed playing on private server, i understand the idea of min maxing, but it really kills the immersion of the game, outside of a raid im going to wear full t1 or t2 and have fun, but depending how serious the guild is, then you can wear your BIS blue shit in the raid.

  13. #33
    Everyone who wants unbalance - just give them unbalance.

    For me personally i won't invite any shit spec, and heck there are a bunch. Simple fact. You wanted it so you get it. Ez for me.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    I'm really eager to show how much I want retail kids have as little as possible with Classic.
    It's funny you call people 'kids' all the while demonstrating an attitude very immature and very 'childish', kudos
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Klling a new born is not much morally different than a late term abortion. Should be avoided, but it's not like it is an actual person yet.

  15. #35
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    I'm really eager to show how much I want retail kids have as little as possible with Classic.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There is. There are no blood elves left in Azeroth, they all left to Draenor with Kael'Thas. If you played WC3 you would know that.
    Because we all have perfect memories of a game played 15 years ago! (or only you do?)
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  16. #36
    I dont remember attack power but i do recall getting my first 3k+ eviscerate on a mage at mines in AB

    Cannot wait to play cold blood hemo again, cmon blizz release this thing already lol.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Globi View Post
    I strongly disagree : BFA is all about raiding but Classic is more about how you live in this world.
    euhm what?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    It's funny you call people 'kids' all the while demonstrating an attitude very immature and very 'childish', kudos
    I agree with you and since you all ready responded what I would to this comment, i don't understand what this hostility is between both games. just play what you prefer or both. it really seems like kids arguing what ice cream IS the best of taste.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RushRush View Post
    Weird flex.. anyone else remember how much spell dmg and crit they had 14 years ago?
    true, but imo it was still more flex worthy in classic.

  18. #38
    Pandaren Monk msdos's Avatar
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    The patch where they released all the PVP gear into the vendors and released BC talents was epic AF. Better than plain vanilla and better than BC, somewhere in between, like having the content of vanilla with the BC talents and vanilla healthpools.

    I was farming living Strat one day on my shammy and ran across 4 alliance that had just zoned out. I completely decimated all 4 of them like nothing had happened, like within the span of 60 seconds. I screenshotted their corpses, but I lost all that stuff to a dead hard drive years ago.

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