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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    That's the most skewed, demented and farfetched theory I've seen in my entire life.
    Are you somehow saying that the ONLY people that are unhappy with BfA are the people that want Classic?

    What the fuck even is this comment?
    Why would you even post something as inane as this?
    Congratulations, you've considerably lowered the IQ of everyone unfortunate enough to read that shit.
    Yup. No sane person would want to dedicate to a flawed, 15 years old game when far more polished product comes at the same price. Having a fun, laid back nostalgia trip to relive old memories is cool (that's even how blizzard themselves are advertising the game), but people like OP, who think the game will draw players from retail or players who plan or hardcore play the shit out of the game are mostly toxic lunatics and I can't wait to get rid of them.

  2. #82
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Yup. No sane person would want to dedicate to a flawed, 15 years old game when far more polished product comes at the same price. Having a fun, laid back nostalgia trip to relive old memories is cool (that's even how blizzard themselves are advertising the game), but people like OP, who think the game will draw players from retail or players who plan or hardcore play the shit out of the game are mostly toxic lunatics and I can't wait to get rid of them.
    I mean, with that type of logic I'd make a solid argument that you're even more of a toxic lunatic than anyone like that.
    Seeing as you're somehow equating people disliking a game to be not only toxic, but also a very specific group of individuals.

    It's almost like you're extremely delusional, but who knows eh?
    Last I checked, people are allowed to dislike a game.

  3. #83
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    The fact that Classic is available to anyone paying a sub for retail should be considered a mutual win. People can check out Classic during content lulls; Blizzard can see what's working well in both over long periods of time, using Classic as the control group, and take those lessons moving forward.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  4. #84
    Classic will open BIG which everyone knows at this point. The drop off after couple of weeks to a month is gonna be BIG aswell, likely in the 80% or higher range. then it will stabilize for the people who are specially interested in classic. The private server people are gonna treat this as any other private server, play for abit then go and join some other new private server thats opening (TBC/WotLK servers) cause "fresh" is the cool thing.

    then you are stuck with people who dont play private servers but wants to play classic, which wont be that many (after a couple of months)

  5. #85
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    True, but even few million should be enough to keep maintaining it. Saw estimate of current BfA population somewhere, its about 2-3 million players. If Classic gets that many players to stay after initial rush, it can be considered successful.

    10 million? Probably unrealistic.
    I don't think you need 'millions' to keep Classic profitable. I read in an interview once that they designed the game to be profitable at about 500k players and they were totally unprepared for the multiple millions it ended up pulling in. They caught lightning in a bottle with the release timing.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  6. #86
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I don't think you need 'millions' to keep Classic profitable. I read in an interview once that they designed the game to be profitable at about 500k players and they were totally unprepared for the multiple millions it ended up pulling in. They caught lightning in a bottle with the release timing.
    Lightning in a bottle is an understatement, having a 12 million concurrent player peak on a subscription model is fucking astronomical in the gaming world.
    Likely won't ever happen again with a subscription based game.

  7. #87
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonatron View Post
    I was wondering if once classic is released and everyone and their mothers will be playing it.. won't it have a negative effect on current wow playerbase and ingame activity ?
    Not likely. The error in thinking here is the assumption that only (or mostly) current players will play Classic. Blizzard (like any other corporation) has done the analysis, and the reason that they are releasing Classic is because they will likely only lose a relatively small percentage of current players, but will likely increase new players (or, more accurately, old players that don't like the current state) by a million or two.

    Now, a million or two may not sound like a lot since everyone touts the 12 million figure not realizing it hasn't been that high for nearly a decade, but the reality is that current WoW is likely below 4 million subs. So the gain would be 25% to 50%...well worth the effort at this time.

  8. #88
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Lightning in a bottle is an understatement, having a 12 million concurrent player peak on a subscription model is fucking astronomical in the gaming world.
    Likely won't ever happen again with a subscription based game.
    I agree. You only see numbers like that anymore coming out of free-play games, well, because they're free. WoW hit the perfect storm of releasing as EverQuest was trending downward, the other 'big name' MMORPGs were flagging, a well-known company and IP, smart marketing, a markedly more casual-friendly approach to design (no risk of item loss or losing levels on death, possible to solo the entire level grind in theory, and entire server pools where you could quest without the threat of PvP interaction unless you wanted it), and rapidly-spreading word of mouth allowing it to cross into pop culture at a time when MMORPGs were largely considered the realm of 40th-level internet wizards with arcane digital knowledge, helped along by celebrity endorsements both in commercials and off-the-cuff interviews unrelated to Blizz.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    I think Blizzard knows very well that Classic will outshine BfA... especially since it will release in a winding down time for BfA.
    Only in the minds of true believers can the impossible be truth.

    Classic will get a 'baby bump' but after a few months will be populated only by those for whom nostalgia is not just a temporary draw. As this is a population not much larger than those who raid mythic, then it won't be exciting.

  10. #90
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Not likely. The error in thinking here is the assumption that only (or mostly) current players will play Classic. Blizzard (like any other corporation) has done the analysis, and the reason that they are releasing Classic is because they will likely only lose a relatively small percentage of current players, but will likely increase new players (or, more accurately, old players that don't like the current state) by a million or two.

    Now, a million or two may not sound like a lot since everyone touts the 12 million figure not realizing it hasn't been that high for nearly a decade, but the reality is that current WoW is likely below 4 million subs. So the gain would be 25% to 50%...well worth the effort at this time.
    It doesn't even really need to be a million. Keep in mind the team doing this is pretty damn small, nothing compared to needing entire teams dedicated to content, so the overhead is probably not bad at all. It is really a small project that they sure as hell know will have good returns.

  11. #91
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Not likely. The error in thinking here is the assumption that only (or mostly) current players will play Classic. Blizzard (like any other corporation) has done the analysis, and the reason that they are releasing Classic is because they will likely only lose a relatively small percentage of current players, but will likely increase new players (or, more accurately, old players that don't like the current state) by a million or two.

    Now, a million or two may not sound like a lot since everyone touts the 12 million figure not realizing it hasn't been that high for nearly a decade, but the reality is that current WoW is likely below 4 million subs. So the gain would be 25% to 50%...well worth the effort at this time.
    It's essentially a win-win for Blizzard.
    Sure, the development/adjustment for a 7.3.5 core with 1.12 data will take some money invested but it will pay back several times higher than they invested.
    It's already a complete game, it doesn't need more development and maintaining servers are cheap as hell.
    On top of that, they have the potential as you said, to grab a lot of older players back and also gain great PR for supplying those servers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I agree. You only see numbers like that anymore coming out of free-play games, well, because they're free. WoW hit the perfect storm of releasing as EverQuest was trending downward, the other 'big name' MMORPGs were flagging, a well-known company and IP, smart marketing, a markedly more casual-friendly approach to design (no risk of item loss or losing levels on death, possible to solo the entire level grind in theory, and entire server pools where you could quest without the threat of PvP interaction unless you wanted it), and rapidly-spreading word of mouth allowing it to cross into pop culture at a time when MMORPGs were largely considered the realm of 40th-level internet wizards with arcane digital knowledge, helped along by celebrity endorsements both in commercials and off-the-cuff interviews unrelated to Blizz.
    Made me chuckle.
    But yeah, they really struck at the perfect moment since it was also around the time where the internet in itself really took off with younger generations.
    I think that if anything's going to top that, it's likely going to be WoW topping itself. I don't see any other type of MMO coming close when the genre has been so defined by WoW and what WoW has to offer that any up-and-coming MMO is always compared to WoW and tends to always lose in that comparison.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Made me chuckle.
    But yeah, they really struck at the perfect moment since it was also around the time where the internet in itself really took off with younger generations.
    I think that if anything's going to top that, it's likely going to be WoW topping itself. I don't see any other type of MMO coming close when the genre has been so defined by WoW and what WoW has to offer that any up-and-coming MMO is always compared to WoW and tends to always lose in that comparison.
    Aye. As much as one will catch me hustling for FFXIV (it's a genuinely-enjoyable game, IMO), and as much as Blizz seems to be treating them quite seriously as competition (to the point of mirroring their 77-day patch cycle to Blizz's best effort), and as much as they're really the only other big dog in pay-to-play at the moment, it still tops out at I think 1.5-2mil registered accounts. FFXIV didn't have the perfect storm opportunity and it's still fighting the negative impact 1.0 had on its reputation.

    Meanwhile, a post-BFA expansion that marries the best concepts of Classic and retail, I think, could see a return to form. Almost definitely not a 12-million return to form, but a resurgent audience nonetheless. And that's what's really got me happy Classic is happening. It's a control group, a static snapshot of the game where you can study and see what holds the test of time over years, something you can't really get with a two-year expansion cycle and large systems changes every expansion. Well, that and historical preservation--the game had a huge impact on the gaming industry and helping push games as social hubs and games as art as concepts. Anything of historical significance needs to be preserved, and WoW 1.X is no different.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  13. #93
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Classic is for the 10's of millions of people who have played this game since 2004 and quit, this number FAR surpasses how many people currently play the game.
    It's borderline delusional to think that as an actual fact, because it completely ignores the myriad of other possible reasons one would have to stop playing WoW. Some of them are:
    • They now have family and/or a job to worry about;
    • They don't like vanilla WoW but stopped because 'expansion X' brought a change they didn't like;
    • They're no longer interested in gaming;
    • They're no longer interested in MMOs;
    • They're no longer interested in WoW;
    • Their friends no longer play WoW;
    • They died.

    Regardless, I'm not saying Classic will be a failure, far from it, but to even consider the idea that Classic WoW is being made for and will draw "10's of millions of people" is simply delusional.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-04-30 at 06:46 PM.

  14. #94
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Aye. As much as one will catch me hustling for FFXIV (it's a genuinely-enjoyable game, IMO), and as much as Blizz seems to be treating them quite seriously as competition (to the point of mirroring their 77-day patch cycle to Blizz's best effort), and as much as they're really the only other big dog in pay-to-play at the moment, it still tops out at I think 1.5-2mil registered accounts. FFXIV didn't have the perfect storm opportunity and it's still fighting the negative impact 1.0 had on its reputation.

    Meanwhile, a post-BFA expansion that marries the best concepts of Classic and retail, I think, could see a return to form. Almost definitely not a 12-million return to form, but a resurgent audience nonetheless. And that's what's really got me happy Classic is happening. It's a control group, a static snapshot of the game where you can study and see what holds the test of time over years, something you can't really get with a two-year expansion cycle and large systems changes every expansion. Well, that and historical preservation--the game had a huge impact on the gaming industry and helping push games as social hubs and games as art as concepts. Anything of historical significance needs to be preserved, and WoW 1.X is no different.
    Aye I very much agree.
    I think it's definitely a good point to pick and prod at regarding the fact that it'd be a golden opportunity for Blizzard to see if there's something they could potentially entwine into retail, and I also think that getting an expansion that's somewhere in between Classic and retail would definitely bring back a lot of players.
    Getting a solid foundation in concept and gameplay elements, along with steady content being provided would help them bounce back a lot.
    But that hinges on them realizing that having expansion specific McGuffins that are intrinsically tied to how your class feels to play needs to go, as it would just be detrimental for people coming back to test the new expansion only to hear "your class/spec will feel good once you hit 130 and level up your expansion specific item".

    I think that in the chase for innovation, they've lost that solid foundation an MMO needs to have.
    It's something I think a lot of people misses and are looking forward to with Classic.

  15. #95
    I don't think classic will kill retail. I think you'll end up with 2 kinds of classic players after the initial wave of tourists clears out.

    Some will play classic exclusively and would never have resubbed otherwise. These will be the core players of classic and will constitute the most dedicated playerbase and high-tier raiders/pvpers.

    Most, however, will mainly be retail players who hop into classic every now and then when they're bored with retail, such as during a content lull. These players will mostly be casual and playing just for something to do when modern WoW stops being entertaining.

    I think you'll see some trickle from retail over to full-time classic over time, but for the most part you'll have the dedicated hardcore vanilla people and the "I'm bored" retail people. I think classic will maintain a nice healthy population of returning players over time, but I don't think it will completely topple retail.

    Instead, I think it will be more of shared spotlight.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitmapman View Post
    Instead, I think it will be more of shared spotlight.
    I agree. The benefit here is that leveling content will always have people available to group up with so it doesn't have the issue some older private servers have where many zones are a ghost town from 20-50, as most players are either very low or very high level.

    edit: @Gungnir I like you. Should fate see us playing on the same server, you get free portals from Zippy's Portable Portal Emporium, no questions asked.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's borderline delusional to think that as an actual fact, because it completely ignores the myriad of other possible reasons one would have to stop playing WoW. Some of them are:
    [list][*]They now have family and/or a job to worry about;[*]They don't like vanilla WoW but stopped because 'expansion X' brought a change they didn't like;[*]They're no longer interested in gaming;[*]They're no longer interested in MMOs;[*]They're no longer interested in WoW;[*]Their friends no longer play WoW;[*]They died.

    Regardless, I'm not saying Classic will be a failure, far from it, but to even consider the idea that Classic WoW is being made for and will draw "10's of millions of people" is simply delusional.
    Three facts are certain. 10's of millions have come and gone since 2004. They left for many reasons, at least ONE person left because they thing modern WoW sucks. It is likely, that since the current game and the original game are so different that there are others (perhaps numbering in the millions) who also left for the same reason.

    So there are millions of people who are potential customers for Classic for a variety of reasons.

    Second fact? NONE of these people are playing BfA.

    Third fact? The entire current playerbase represent a potential player for Classic. Many because they never experienced Vanilla at all... some because they did but missed the launch, and others because they did, and would like to experience it again. It's undeniable that there are SOME that will play both.

    So while those 10's of millions only MIGHT return to play Clasic, it is for sure they didn't return for BfA.


    For me, I believe it will be hugely popular... for others a huge failure.

    We're clos enough now to simply say : "I guess we'll wait and see..."

  18. #98
    everyone and their mothers will NOT be playing classic, classic will be a very niche community largely comprised of the vocal minority on the internet

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by gleepot View Post
    everyone and their mothers will NOT be playing classic, classic will be a very niche community largely comprised of the vocal minority on the internet
    No it's really not. And you are going to be in for quite the rude awakening.

    Considering how many have left retail and how rapidly the interest has grown it's most certainly the majority.

    Why you care whether it's a minority or not is beyond me because either way it's still money in Blizzards pocket.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2019-04-30 at 03:39 PM.

  20. #100
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's borderline delusional to think that as an actual fact, because it completely ignores the myriad of other possible reasons one would have to stop playing WoW. Some of them are:
    Or they tried it out and didn't like MMO genre in general or WoW itself... many players come and go in WoW for various reasons, it's insane to think that everyone quit the game because X expansion was released or Y got changed.
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