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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I have to say though it’s more entertaining to watch what’s happening now.
    Yay for sadism

  2. #262
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Yay for sadism
    Or masochism!
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    But it's entirely irrelevant who is the culprit in attempting to limit speech. It's ALL bad, no matter whatever the side that's responsible. People that get in power ALWAYS try this crap. Always.

    This is why I'd rather vote Pirate any damn day against all of the others. At least they are lefties preoccupied by privacy and embracing a sharing culture. Internet aware people, with minds of their own. Hell, Julia Reda is a hero, she fought against this like a lioness.
    I won't disagree, I was just responding to people blaming this on the left. Censorship and puritanism are NOT the favored picks of the left.
    I think the issue with the internet is that there actually IS an issue with broadcasting lies with no real accountability. I dread what will happen as deepfakes further evolve and we have to deal with squashing actual fake news left and right where we have political figures or celebrities someone hates appear to say something obscene in a very believable setting. We have to get on top of this. The challenge is massive of course on how to get some semblance of regulation without destroying the entire thing but it HAS to be done and it won't be pretty until we get it right. We cannot have a society where we can just not trust ANYTHING we see or hear.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    The extreme left happened, that's what
    But but Europe is not extreme left they're only slightly left and the left in the US is actually center right.......

    Gotta love that terrible argument they always seem to produce.

  5. #265
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    The left having a voice in this is quite new, absolutely. For years my generation fought the right and its attempts to be puritanical, about movies, games, the Internet, crying about religion, crying about the kids, and overall just being their warmongering-selves with wild abandon.

    I always considered that standing up against these people is the GOOD thing to do, and that the left has a vested interest to protect free speech, as a tool of speaking truth to power and holding those elected (and sometimes unelected) responsible.

    It's pure insanity to me to see many on the left arguing for more speech control. Making my jaw drop in disbelief. Abandonment of what we used to believe in and fight for just 10-15 years ago.
    This. This is the issue that started changing my view of the modern left as well.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  6. #266
    They’ve been regulating speech and media since Gutenberg invented the printing press. It used to be as extreme as to forbidding certain groups to learn how to read.

    Same thing with radio and television. Ask any Eastern European what it meant to listen to the BBC overseas service or VOA during the Cold War. The DPRK despises South Korean broadcasts. Jamming signals still exist in the world.

    I’m surprised the internet has lasted almost 25 years without more nations doing what China does to it. Information is dangerous to totalitarians and to CNN’s viewership levels.
    There is no one more racist than a white liberal.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    But but Europe is not extreme left they're only slightly left and the left in the US is actually center right.......

    Gotta love that terrible argument they always seem to produce.
    Everyday someone on these forums tells us how the left in the US is closer to the right in EU, but all off a sudden the right is now US right.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I've been over this before; I don't respond to implicit threats.

    And the very fact that you explicitly admit that these people will become violent certainly calls into question your attempt to defend them from the accusation that they are "terrible people". Yes, violent reprobates don't respond well when challenged. This is why we have laws against such violence. Bowing down to their views out of fear and cowardice isn't a reasoned response.
    An oppressed people become violent. If we suddenly made it illegal in the US to practice your favorite "protected" religion, they would lash out in violence. Guess they were just waiting for violence to become an option too?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    The left having a voice in this is quite new, absolutely. For years my generation fought the right and its attempts to be puritanical, about movies, games, the Internet, crying about religion, crying about the kids, and overall just being their warmongering-selves with wild abandon.

    I always considered that standing up against these people is the GOOD thing to do, and that the left has a vested interest to protect free speech, as a tool of speaking truth to power and holding those elected (and sometimes unelected) responsible.

    It's pure insanity to me to see many on the left arguing for more speech control. Making my jaw drop in disbelief. Abandonment of what we used to believe in and fight for just 10-15 years ago.
    SNL made this skit about a Trump voter burning books when honestly I'd expect the left to be burning books and wouldn't doubt they have at Antifa rallies etc. Burning books seems like the exact thing the left would do today.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    This. This is the issue that started changing my view of the modern left as well.
    You were never left if this is what swayed you. There is no positive to giving nazis a platform. Not all speech should be protected.

  10. #270
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    You were never left if this is what swayed you. There is no positive to giving nazis a platform. Not all speech should be protected.
    I’m not “left”; I’m closer to anarcho socialist.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Give Sethrak Blizz View Post
    Free speech alternatives like Voat? It is funny that the only people complaining about free speach/less restricted are doing it because they want to say horribly racist stuff.
    What is wrong with that exactly? Is it simply because it effects you that it should be of a concern? I have seen it spread far beyond "racist stuff" as well... internet censorship grows like a weed spreading from one conquered corner to another.

  12. #272
    Seems "The control" has gained too much power.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Hiding parts of society has the opposite result than you want; namely giving power to the thing you push away.
    People in time will look back and think on the days when they were in control and all the ills they saw in the world could be hidden in the dark places of the world cut off from them... sadly they learned to late that night always comes eventually and the darkness will reclaim everything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    It's not that simple. It never is. I think it's wrong to try and pin it on one side alone. Gotta keep it in context and be fair. Free speech is far more important than the left/right divide IMO. And those that touch power always seem to want to limit it, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum.
    Left leaning swine, right leaning swine, both are fat and ready from slaughter from I see of politics these days. Sure the right tends to at least be more amusing but both are relics of a age gone by who haven't adapted to the modern world.

  14. #274
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    People in time will look back and think on the days when they were in control and all the ills they saw in the world could be hidden in the dark places of the world cut off from them... sadly they learned to late that night always comes eventually and the darkness will reclaim everything.
    Yep, and as they say, light is the great disinfectant. By hiding you just create more shadows, and add on more darkness.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  15. #275
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    You were never left if this is what swayed you. There is no positive to giving nazis a platform. Not all speech should be protected.
    There's no positive to giving communists a platform. Should their free speech rights be taken away, or is it only the people you agree with that should have free speech rights?

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Yep, and as they say, light is the great disinfectant. By hiding you just create more shadows, and add on more darkness.
    I wonder at times if that is all this stems from. The fear of what happens when ideas are open to debate and things held as conventional truths are challenged. I can see a so many lies that I don't think we are really ready as a society to face.

    The concept of equality between different people, old lies that can't be true scientifically but are seen as sacred cows that can not be touched. I always wonder if its the fear of people being able to freely and openly question everything they believe that is one of the great spurs to this age of trying to muzzle one another, Its a romantic thought but I have a sinking suspicion it is more out of pretty desires to be seen as virtuous or simply not be challenged.

  17. #277
    Herald of the Titans Helryx's Avatar
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    Normies. Eternal September marked the start of the death of the "Wild West" internet, and the advent of the social media trio was the final nail in the coffin.
    Last edited by Helryx; 2019-04-23 at 07:38 PM.

  18. #278
    Not Working Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    An oppressed people become violent. If we suddenly made it illegal in the US to practice your favorite "protected" religion, they would lash out in violence. Guess they were just waiting for violence to become an option too?
    And there is no "oppression".

    That's where your claims go completely off the rails.

    You're free to be as racist and mean-spirited and shitty as you want to be. It's just that everyone else is free to respond to your conduct, by making their own choices about you.

    You are literally arguing against freedom of association and freedom of thought/expression.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And there is no "oppression".

    That's where your claims go completely off the rails.

    You're free to be as racist and mean-spirited and shitty as you want to be. It's just that everyone else is free to respond to your conduct, by making their own choices about you.

    You are literally arguing against freedom of association and freedom of thought/expression.
    This doesn't really make sense as a response to the quote you mentioned in this post though. People are not free to to respond to every groups conduct by making their own choices... that undermines the entire premise of hate crimes.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    There's no positive to giving communists a platform. Should their free speech rights be taken away, or is it only the people you agree with that should have free speech rights?
    Comparing communists to Nazis. Cool. Back in the basket with you, rofl.

    The right sure loves their Nazi hate speech being protected.

    In before "Communist governments have killed more people than Nazis" or some jazz.

    I'd explain at length why that statement is absurd, but I don't see the point tying to explain things to the right anymore.
    Last edited by Hinastorm; 2019-04-23 at 07:50 PM.

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