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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Najnaj View Post


    This is a 2h enhance shammy in 1.12.1
    Yeah, and Ele is still VASTLY better in every single way.
    You're getting blinded by an enhance shammy crit reel, which is pretty hilarious.

    I'm not taking anything away from Stormx, he's a fucking fantastic player, but those are some extremely cherry picked clips. It's the same argument people brought up when Unbreakable released all those years ago.
    "BUT HE'S OP, HE CAN ONE SHOT ON EVERY SWING" without realising that Windfury rarely went off, and when it did it rarely triple procced.


    Meanwhile, an Ele shaman can do about 3.5 - 5k damage in two globals with gear, consistantly.

  2. #222
    Pandaren Monk msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Yeah, and Ele is still VASTLY better in every single way.
    I agree. Ele with NaC pre-nerf and the ZG trinket would just blow anything up as long as they could cast. The way I beat HWL warriors was just nuke them down before they could nuke me. See the thing is, your spells bypass their armor but you still had a shield and mail. Warriors were really at their peak when they had windfury from another sham and buffs, in a duel they're more down to earth. Fire nova had a stun so you could just do a combo with nature's swiftness and then Ele Fury gave you one free cast I believe.
    Rogue got countered hard by poison cleanse and magma totem, blind was considered a poison.

    Couldn't really do jack against other casters though. In the really really early days of WoW, like before BWL came out, I would just switch to a staff and put rockbiter on it and you could melee down mages. Rockbiter used to give you like 10 bajillion flat attack power lmao. They must've changed that spell at least 6 times.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I agree. Ele with NaC pre-nerf and the ZG trinket would just blow anything up as long as they could cast. The way I beat HWL warriors was just nuke them down before they could nuke me. See the thing is, your spells bypass their armor but you still had a shield and mail. Warriors were really at their peak when they had windfury from another sham and buffs, in a duel they're more down to earth. Fire nova had a stun so you could just do a combo with nature's swiftness and then Ele Fury gave you one free cast I believe.
    Rogue got countered hard by poison cleanse and magma totem, blind was considered a poison.

    Couldn't really do jack against other casters though. In the really really early days of WoW, like before BWL came out, I would just switch to a staff and put rockbiter on it and you could melee down mages. Rockbiter used to give you like 10 bajillion flat attack power lmao. They must've changed that spell at least 6 times.
    Yeah, casters was a bitch for Ele but overall it was an incredibly solid spec with great utility, self healing and burst output in PvP.
    Once you hit AQ gear, you could easily wombo-combo someone for their entire healthbar with a crit or two with LB > instant CL and then Frost Shock to round it up.

    Not to mention that it has all the tools that enhance has.. but also being ranged, with their main nuke having chaining properties so you could do 2k+ to three targets.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Yeah, and Ele is still VASTLY better in every single way.
    You're getting blinded by an enhance shammy crit reel, which is pretty hilarious.

    I'm not taking anything away from Stormx, he's a fucking fantastic player, but those are some extremely cherry picked clips. It's the same argument people brought up when Unbreakable released all those years ago.
    "BUT HE'S OP, HE CAN ONE SHOT ON EVERY SWING" without realising that Windfury rarely went off, and when it did it rarely triple procced.


    Meanwhile, an Ele shaman can do about 3.5 - 5k damage in two globals with gear, consistantly.
    ..and you think that is great?

    Are you arguing against me or you?

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Najnaj View Post
    ..and you think that is great?

    Are you arguing against me or you?
    Considering your cherry picked video has, at most, around 3.5k damage in a swing that's entirely unreliable.
    Compared to, again a safe estimate, 3.5 - 5k RELIABLE damage against plate targets aswell.

    Also, for comparison, a BWL/AQ geared Nightfall/Conflag warlock could do around 3.5 - 5k in two globals aswell, with some lucky shadowbolt and conflag crits.
    The more and more you post, the less I think you actually know about Vanilla in general.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Considering your cherry picked video has, at most, around 3.5k damage in a swing that's entirely unreliable.
    Compared to, again a safe estimate, 3.5 - 5k RELIABLE damage against plate targets aswell.

    Also, for comparison, a BWL/AQ geared Nightfall/Conflag warlock could do around 3.5 - 5k in two globals aswell, with some lucky shadowbolt and conflag crits.
    The more and more you post, the less I think you actually know about Vanilla in general.
    So you are arguing against yourself then ....

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Najnaj View Post
    So you are arguing against yourself then ....
    I don't think you understand the argument, nor your own stance, nor where you're trying to go with it.

    Nowhere in my posts have I somehow argued against my point of Ele being superior to Enhance when it comes to shaman PvP in Vanilla, everything I've stated have reaffirmed my stance and points, aswell as other posters chiming in on it.


    You need to get some sleep my dude.
    I mean you're trying to argue that a spec that gets AT BEST around the same damage, usually far less, with extreme amounts of RNG and melee range.. is somehow worse than a spec with the same tools, same damage potential but very reliably so, is ranged and has better healing thanks to a far large mana pool.
    In no way does any of that make sense.
    Last edited by Gungnir; 2019-04-25 at 09:19 PM.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    I don't think you understand the argument, nor your own stance, nor where you're trying to go with it.

    Nowhere in my posts have I somehow argued against my point of Ele being superior to Enhance when it comes to shaman PvP in Vanilla, everything I've stated have reaffirmed my stance and points, aswell as other posters chiming in on it.


    You need to get some sleep my dude.
    ..that isn't the point!

    Depending on which patch you use one class will be stupidly OP. The 2 that I remember are 2h enhance and affliction locks. THere was also a time where hunters with surv hybrid specs were insane,,,and then they were garbage. People complain about balancing today but if you go back and implement 1.12 as it was with no rebalancing it will not be very successful.

    I am sure Ele Shammys were insane at one point but it looks like 1.12 it was enhancement given the amount of vids you have on YouTube. I honestly can not remember the exact dates. Either way is is not important, the point is that is was wildly unbalanced.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    What the fuck is "dual wield fury tank"?

    That's not a thing. That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!
    Inb4 all the Vanilla casuals shout "but dungeons!!!!"
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Najnaj View Post
    ..that isn't the point!

    Depending on which patch you use one class will be stupidly OP. The 2 that I remember are 2h enhance and affliction locks. THere was also a time where hunters with surv hybrid specs were insane,,,and then they were garbage. People complain about balancing today but if you go back and implement 1.12 as it was with no rebalancing it will not be very successful.

    I am sure Ele Shammys were insane at one point but it looks like 1.12 it was enhancement given the amount of vids you have on YouTube. I honestly can not remember the exact dates. Either way is is not important, the point is that is was wildly unbalanced.
    Enhance was never OP as it was ALWAYS outpaced by Elemental, in every patch. It's not like Vanilla was some wild wasteland where every patch, 150% nerf/buff modifiers were thrown around.
    A few specs got talent revamps, most notably warriors and warlocks around patch 1.6 and became more viable. Affliction was only great in the sustain category, they did almost no damage but you'd be hardpressed to kill them though.

    Meanwhile, at every point in the entire game, rogues were always at the forefront in every facet. Yes Vanilla was "unbalanced" but you don't seem to know which specs were unbalanced.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Enhance was never OP as it was ALWAYS outpaced by Elemental, in every patch. It's not like Vanilla was some wild wasteland where every patch, 150% nerf/buff modifiers were thrown around.
    A few specs got talent revamps, most notably warriors and warlocks around patch 1.6 and became more viable. Affliction was only great in the sustain category, they did almost no damage but you'd be hardpressed to kill them though.

    Meanwhile, at every point in the entire game, rogues were always at the forefront in every facet. Yes Vanilla was "unbalanced" but you don't seem to know which specs were unbalanced.
    You can just google and find out rather than argue stupid shit you know ....

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    I prefer a WoW less dependant on individual skill though. Not because i lack it, but because i find it more entertaining to do research, theorycrafting and planning. I'm a nerd. Nowadays in WoW you just spam whatever content you can access and cross your fingers for titanforged loot. Skill has become too important in the game.

    Blizzard already has a purely skill-based loot-driven game, it's called Diablo 3. I dont know why the insist on making WoW it's clone.



    Skill yes, knowledge no. Only at high-end Mythic difficulties, and mostly because the game has become way more focused on end-game content and player inclusion into it.
    I 100% agree with everything you wrote. I cannot stand modern WoW because it no longer is rewarding or fun to play. It's a hamster wheel that never ends, with no measurable rewards whatsoever. No places where you get to relax and enjoy the fruits of your "labors"... the progression plateaus where you get to feel.. "I did it!"

  13. #233
    Dreadlord Animalhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    bro you're arguing with a guy called Animalhouse that wants to play a humanoid that can shapeshift into different animal forms. His bias is immense, he's probably just another furry.

    I actually feel a little sad for the people that think prot paladins or feral druids are competitive choices for a tank. They're in for a rude awakening and some of them are just a lost cause. I wouldn't bother with them at this point.
    Animalhouse was my hunters name. My original vanilla/BC main. My druid has a completely different name. I have had the name on these forums since 2008 because that was and many still call me (actually Animal). Anamalhouse was not because I was into furrys but because I was a bit of a party animal...hence the movie reference.

    I will not be in for a rude awakening because I tank in feral on an unamed vanilla server now just fine and test out various combinations of talents and gear in my own offline version. There is no bias because I know wtf I am talking about as opposed to someone like yourself who is drawing on 14 year old false memories.

    Seriously, why do so many of you just talk out of your ass with these false absolutes?!
    Last edited by Animalhouse; 2019-04-25 at 09:53 PM.
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  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    People ALWAYS get better with time, that's a universal constant, that's basic human physiology.
    I disagree with almost everything I've seen you write, but this line is particularly funny. You use the CAPS emphasis and other strong statements to try to make your opinion sound like a fact. Whether we agree or disagree, it's clearly an opinion, or in scientific terms a theory. Can you prove your theory? Of course not, which is why it is not a fact. Plus it's not even a good theory. People suck and they're not getting better. Just read a newspaper, or better yet read a forum.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    I disagree with almost everything I've seen you write, but this line is particularly funny. You use the CAPS emphasis and other strong statements to try to make your opinion sound like a fact. Whether we agree or disagree, it's clearly an opinion, or in scientific terms a theory. Can you prove your theory? Of course not, which is why it is not a fact. Plus it's not even a good theory. People suck and they're not getting better. Just read a newspaper, or better yet read a forum.
    You misunderstood the fact that I was talking about an individual being exposed to a system he is freely allowed to manipulate in challenging situations, and you are apparently assuming that the person can do so for 10 years and not improve at all.

    That's just factually incorrect, you ALWAYS improve if you are doing the same thing for a long time, even if you don't push yourself. Your reactions improve, your thought processes improve as you start information chunking to speed up your decision making, because you are familiar with the system after 10 years of interacting with it.
    If you're going to sit here and go "nah, in 10 years you never improve in any measurable sense, you are equally clueless as you first started" then I suppose you take a look at human evolution and the fact that you can, for example, differentiate a beginner drummer from an expert drummer.

    Kindly get fucked as you're outright wrong.
    Inb4 "well it's in my opinion that you can't improve", which is mind-bogglingy stupid in of itself but not too surprising given the context.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    I recall how rare it was to see Druid tanks in major raiding guilds, and offspecs/hybrids as well.

    This time round willing to bet that will change. I think we will see people going for those specs and doing well -especially druid tanks.

    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ntent/35613/96

    https://docs.google.com/document/u/2...CDZdxC7lEE/pub
    If by rare you mean never, then yes.


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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Najnaj View Post
    Again, you can be defense capped on a druid, I know I was.
    Okay, please show us what gear you can equip to get +140 defense on a druid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
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  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Okay, please show us what gear you can equip to get +140 defense on a druid.
    Are you asking me to google for you? This was 10ish years ago ...

    Feel free to search on rings, trinkets, weapons, cloaks, necklaces, chants, consumables and what not. I can not remember if you had any leather gear with def on it but I don't think you did besides greens.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Okay, please show us what gear you can equip to get +140 defense on a druid.
    they can easily add in a few extra items for certain classes to make every spec suitable, your not getting the true classic experience anyway starting at the last patch of vanilla,
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-26 at 01:06 AM.
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  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    What the fuck is "dual wield fury tank"?

    That's not a thing. That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!
    Ive seen that in heroics.......but I doubt it would work in Classic.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

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