Page 15 of 16 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
16
LastLast
  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    top end raiders skill level back in vanilla was nothing compared to current wow, an average raider in vanilla could get into a top end raiding guild as long as they put effort/time into gearing and such but an average raider will be lucky to kill a few mythic bosses in current wow
    Just because you were bad in vanilla doesnt mean everyone else was.

    But yes, there was mediocre players in every single top guild back then. They got carried. Wich yet again proves my point that player skill was less important back then. Doesnt change the fact that the actually best of the best players were comparable to todays best of the best players.
    Last edited by Grimreaper; 2019-04-27 at 10:56 PM.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    Do you consider that Vanilla raiders stopped getting better with next expansions?
    I stopped raiding in 2013 but considering my experience I would highly/probably likely be able to join top 50 if not much better within few weeks of getting back to game based on only 'portfolio' as im completly inactive since 2013.
    The only problem I would consider is my muscle tissue degraded on my hands/palms/fingers over those years, getting in shape again takes time

    I will turn the situation. Players from around 2011-2013 would not be able to hardcore raid vanila. The preperation required was much bigger hassle and even selling MC/BWL/AQ/ZG runs didn't cut it in long run. In later expansions I could have purely focused on leveling & gearing pre-raid with expansion launches, even include 1 or 2 alts ready for raiding and I would be able to almost purely show for raids for next few months. In vanila it was much much different.

    I would consider hardcore vanila raids to raiding in top 10-15 guilds with running multiple alts gearing progressions at the same time nowadays for comparison sake.
    What im basically saying is vanilla is not going to be a challenge for anyone capable of killing a mythic end boss in its current tier, everyone knows all the mechanics and have practiced them over and over for years.

    You would not be able to get a top 100 spot without proving your capable these days, if you dont have relevant exp or join at the start of an expansion then you will never get a raid spot, previous tier exp is irrelevant.

    I played in vanilla it was more of a grind than skill

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Just because you were bad in vanilla doesnt mean everyone else was.

    But yes, there was mediocre players in every single top guild back then. They got carried. Wich yet again proves my point that player skill was less important back then. Doesnt change the fact that the actually best of the best players were comparable to todays best of the best players.
    Everyone was bad in vanilla it was mostly just a grind with minimal skill, if you had time any player could reach rank 14 PvP and do all raid content, a best of the best vanilla player wont compare to the best current wow player.

    The difficulty in vanilla was either due to players being undergeared or lack of knowledge, current wow does not have any issues with knowledge anymore.

    A top vanilla player is not equal to a top current player, mechanics over the years have increased the skill gap massively over the years.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-27 at 11:29 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    I stopped raiding in 2013 but considering my experience I would highly/probably likely be able to join top 50 if not much better within few weeks of getting back to game based on only 'portfolio' as im completly inactive since 2013.
    If you stopped raiding in 2013 and expect to join a top 50 guild and preform equally to them now, either you were the god incarnate and somehow retained your skill throughout not exercising that skill for 6 years. Or you think recently released raid encounters are as trivial as the ones released in the first 3 expansions.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulatomten View Post
    If you stopped raiding in 2013 and expect to join a top 50 guild and preform equally to them now, either you were the god incarnate and somehow retained your skill throughout not exercising that skill for 6 years. Or you think recently released raid encounters are as trivial as the ones released in the first 3 expansions.
    I think people overestimate a lot of content and problems. The muscle memory just doesn't disapear and often a good observation/research/understanding is a key.
    Over the years the I havent found that many if any encounters that I would say "of crap, this is difficult - on PERSONAL level or execution complexity" but becouse you arent raiding alone and the complexity factor of encounters increases due to human factor included exponentially.
    On a side note, more and more mechanics over the years become not complicated but often confusing - I think this without proper understanding is nowadays bigger factor of becoming a better player. The faster you understand the problem, the reason for it the better. I won't lie that sometimes coming to a boss in world 20-30 race some mechanics were confusing as fuck in the begining, think partial reason for this was wording, language difference and barrier, another one was were "naked" ability descriptions in built in boss ability info.

    I have a history of (I supposedly wrote a list down here but I decided to not post it. I would get accused of bragging here likely) so nvm.

    The biggest and hardest challange for me was to play feral competitivly in 2011-2013 as the class/rotation was extremly complicated, unintuitive, required extreme timing, understanding, fast fingers and not fooling around, with some encounters it was mental challange to sustain few hours a day every day.
    Luckily at some point we had some tools to make life easier but in the end it was marely a guide, not a solution.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Everyone was bad in vanilla it was mostly just a grind with minimal skill, if you had time any player could reach rank 14 PvP and do all raid content, a best of the best vanilla player wont compare to the best current wow player.
    No. A skilled player is a skilled player, it does NOT matter what difficulty the content is at. Content beeing easier/simpler does not relate to player skill at all.

    The difficulty in vanilla was either due to players being undergeared or lack of knowledge, current wow does not have any issues with knowledge anymore.
    That just contradicts your point, it does not benefit it.

    A top vanilla player is not equal to a top current player, mechanics over the years have increased the skill gap massively over the years.
    Again, the skill level of a top player does not revolve around the difficulty of the content.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    No. A skilled player is a skilled player, it does NOT matter what difficulty the content is at. Content beeing easier/simpler does not relate to player skill at all.


    That just contradicts your point, it does not benefit it.



    Again, the skill level of a top player does not revolve around the difficulty of the content.
    Difficulty of content is the only thing that improves players skill, if your just facerolling content you would never improve, knowledge about your class only gets you so far in skill, rest requires practice through challenging content to make you play as best you can.

    Fact is you can't improve skill without pushing your own skills to the limit, 1000 hours bashing a target dummy or running easy content only gets you to a certain point.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Difficulty of content is the only thing that improves players skill, if your just facerolling content you would never improve, knowledge about your class only gets you so far in skill, rest requires practice through challenging content to make you play as best you can.

    Fact is you can't improve skill without pushing your own skills to the limit, 1000 hours bashing a target dummy or running easy content only gets you to a certain point.
    A skilled player will easily master both vanilla and current WoW without having ever played either beforehand. WoW is not a difficult game, good players need extremely little practice with it.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    A skilled player will easily master both vanilla and current WoW without having ever played either beforehand. WoW is not a difficult game, good players need extremely little practice with it.
    Kenn is right.

    Take the top 40 players from retail and make them fight the toughest Vanilla boss, giving them no knowledge of the fight. They'll cut through it pretty quickly.

    Take the top 20 raiders from Vanilla in with the skill they earned in Vanilla and make the fight the toughest boss in retail with no knowledge of the fight. They will be there a long time.

    Then say again that 'it does NOT matter what difficulty the content is at'.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Heph47 View Post
    Kenn is right.

    Take the top 40 players from retail and make them fight the toughest Vanilla boss, giving them no knowledge of the fight. They'll cut through it pretty quickly.

    Take the top 20 raiders from Vanilla in with the skill they earned in Vanilla and make the fight the toughest boss in retail with no knowledge of the fight. They will be there a long time.

    Then say again that 'it does NOT matter what difficulty the content is at'.
    Vanilla is all about preparation.

    Take 40 retail mythic raiders to molten core with leveling greens and they will get stomped hard.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Heph47 View Post
    Kenn is right.

    Take the top 40 players from retail and make them fight the toughest Vanilla boss, giving them no knowledge of the fight. They'll cut through it pretty quickly.

    Take the top 20 raiders from Vanilla in with the skill they earned in Vanilla and make the fight the toughest boss in retail with no knowledge of the fight. They will be there a long time.

    Then say again that 'it does NOT matter what difficulty the content is at'.
    I'd take that bet, even though it would prove nothing. Got to remember vanilla only had a single difficulty, meaning the boss would be tuned way lower than mythic retail. If they kill the vanilla boss in less attempts, it does not mean they are more skilled. It's just tuned lower.

    My point was anyways, a skilled player is a skilled player regardless of what game they are playing. It's not learned or trained or whatever you lot believe, it's in their blood.

  11. #291
    The Lightbringer Aqua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    3,545
    Well yeah it can ONLY be different, we know everything about it now. It will never be truly recreated. Different is refreshing if you ask me, I want that style of game back, just... with updates.
    I have eaten all the popcorn, I left none for anyone else.

  12. #292
    Herald of the Titans Dartz1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Azeroth
    Posts
    2,662
    The whole vanilla classic project is just a thing to keep players busy just enough for the dev teams to focus on working on future games... aka patches. expansions.. and maybe diablo 4?
    Ba da bing ba da boom how ya doing!
    Battletag: Jaina1337#1396

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Vanilla is all about preparation.

    Take 40 retail mythic raiders to molten core with leveling greens and they will get stomped hard.
    Take vanilla raiders to BfA and put them in a normal raid with leveling greens and they'll get stomped much harder.

    People in vanilla were generally terrible at understanding very basic things - like incredibly elementary 'mechanics' such as Baron's bomb or basic dps optimization strategies or waiting for a few sunders since you do zero dps when you're dead. By far the hardest thing with vanilla raiding was finding enough people who weren't totally clueless. Bosses were a joke and raid prep wasn't any more significant than it is for modern mythic raiding.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Vanilla is all about preparation.

    Take 40 retail mythic raiders to molten core with leveling greens and they will get stomped hard.
    Thank you captain obvious. Take the 20 best raiders from Death and Taxes or whatever and toss them at M Jaina in greens and they are dead within seconds. Hell no need to even go there as Taloc or Grong alone would be more than enough.

  15. #295
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Alpha Quadrant
    Posts
    567
    So it'll be Chocolate?

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Thank you captain obvious. Take the 20 best raiders from Death and Taxes or whatever and toss them at M Jaina in greens and they are dead within seconds. Hell no need to even go there as Taloc or Grong alone would be more than enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Take vanilla raiders to BfA and put them in a normal raid with leveling greens and they'll get stomped much harder.

    People in vanilla were generally terrible at understanding very basic things - like incredibly elementary 'mechanics' such as Baron's bomb or basic dps optimization strategies or waiting for a few sunders since you do zero dps when you're dead. By far the hardest thing with vanilla raiding was finding enough people who weren't totally clueless. Bosses were a joke and raid prep wasn't any more significant than it is for modern mythic raiding.
    Oh but they will try, believe me.
    They will try and push their luck with subpar gear only to get roflstomped.

    Will Molten Core be open on day 1? I dont know.

    They will try to enter there undergeared if they can.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Vanilla is all about preparation.

    Take 40 retail mythic raiders to molten core with leveling greens and they will get stomped hard.
    Lol. We've actually cleared MC in greens BACK IN VANILLA.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Oh but they will try, believe me.
    They will try and push their luck with subpar gear only to get roflstomped.

    Will Molten Core be open on day 1? I dont know.

    They will try to enter there undergeared if they can.
    What's your point? Massively undergeared players will have a hard time with the content for which they are massively undergeared. So? What are you trying to get at? You seem to be trying to set up this "retail versus vanilla" thing but you're not really saying anything.

    And btw, it's not like a bunch of mythic raiders are going to come raid in Classic. It's a totally different thing. I would say most people that raid mythic do so because it's fun to beat new encounters and solve new puzzles. Everything in Classic has all been done, by definition there is nothing new about it. Certainly some modern raiders will play for at least a while but I don't think that will be typical.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    What's your point? Massively undergeared players will have a hard time with the content for which they are massively undergeared. So? What are you trying to get at? You seem to be trying to set up this "retail versus vanilla" thing but you're not really saying anything.

    And btw, it's not like a bunch of mythic raiders are going to come raid in Classic. It's a totally different thing. I would say most people that raid mythic do so because it's fun to beat new encounters and solve new puzzles. Everything in Classic has all been done, by definition there is nothing new about it. Certainly some modern raiders will play for at least a while but I don't think that will be typical.
    My point is that Vanilla is a different kind of adventure.
    Is all about preparation and consumables and gold.
    Raiding is just a fun place to be.

    What is your point?
    There is no use raiding in Vanilla because its "easy" compared to mythic raiding?

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    My point is that Vanilla is a different kind of adventure.
    Is all about preparation and consumables and gold.
    Raiding is just a fun place to be.

    What is your point?
    There is no use raiding in Vanilla because its "easy" compared to mythic raiding?
    I responded to "Vanilla is all about preparation. Take 40 retail mythic raiders to molten core with leveling greens and they will get stomped hard." I think my point is pretty clear if you read and don't just react.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •