It Will Be A Different Vanilla

[Castration]

I recall how rare it was to see Druid tanks in major raiding guilds, and offspecs/hybrids as well.

This time round willing to bet that will change. I think we will see people going for those specs and doing well -especially druid tanks.

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ntent/35613/96

https://docs.google.com/document/u/2...CDZdxC7lEE/pub

please do a correct comparison before posting shit.

Also, stop stealing data from Skarm.

[Zulatomten]

This post again, one every month till Classic releases.

Do you wanna play Druid tank? Play druid tank, but:

1)Dont expect to be grouped with decent players, even the most terrible of the decent players aka what we call LFR hero, follow some form of meta and min-maxing but since the overall knowledge is low, they remain terrible at the game no matter what.

2)Dont expect the DPS to magically play worse than they can so you can feel that you are actually a tank.

3)Druids job in Vanilla is to innervate the priest and spam Healing Touch Rank 4? (Was it?, or higher?) and the occasional decurse.

The only place a Druid Tank is actually viable is Patchwerk Hateful Strike soaker, everywhere else, you are wasting time and should have had a warrior.

I think you mean

1) Don't be grouped with elitist players, ... they remain terrible to play with no matter what.

2) Expect the DPS to magically play the exact same, since a feral does the same or more threat than a warrior

3) (Resto) Druids job in Vanilla is to innervate the priest and spam Healing Touch R4?

The only place a Druid Tank is acually viable is pretty much everywhere as a offtank and the occational main tank.

[Niwes]

And yet there's still a lot of things that you missed.
It's a matter of simple math. You had around two years with the game that was completely new, they've had 7 years with the same game but the same old players.

You're effectively trying to argue against people with nearly 10 years experience of that system.




And yet, this one mage called Vurtne completely revolutionized mage gameplay in PvP because no one else was doing what he did.
Just that tells you a lot about the general skill level back in the day.
You even have videos of cutting edge guilds back then with players that spent their time clicking spells.

I mean shit, just look at Grim who was argued to be one of the better rogues back in the day, and compare him to literally any current day player.
With time comes experience and knowledge. People ALWAYS get better with time, that's a universal constant, that's basic human physiology.


To say that skill level peaked in 2005, in a brand new game, is facetious at best.
That's like saying Counter Strike skill level peaked in 2001 compared to 2011.

you compare apples with oranges.

your logic only makes sense when wow had never changed. but the game changed (A LOT) in evry xpac. and the ppl changed theirselfes with / according to the game. your logic is horrible false here.

a simple counter argument here: if your logic would be true, and players that played i.e. counter strike since first day and never stopped, could be never beaten by any othr player that later hopped in, because their exp will always be higher than newer players one. when exp is linear increasing to infinity and key to success.

its complete BS what you talk, sorry.

[kamuimac]

From my understanding, it was never that they weren't viable, it's just that other classes/specs just did the job better with FAR less effort involved. Most people won't spend more effort, more time and more money to only be barely as good as the "intended" spec for that role.

nope. they were always garbage - and so they will be seen as garbage in classic.

i seriusly feel sad for all those poor bastards who will roll shit class/spec and waste a month leveling only to have to level another toon because they will be never wanted anywhere.

[Linkedblade]

Why is that doc comparing 2 things that should never be compared? Put a fucking shield on that warrior and the correct spec. The fuck is going on here?

My guess would be they are comparing a dps feral as a tank against a dps warrior as a tank

[Sorcereria]

The only place a Druid Tank is acually viable is pretty much everywhere as a offtank and the occational main tank.

Untill the druid get 1 shoted due to crit/crushing blow due to lack of defense on gear. Than it's a raids problem, not the hero. :-)
Inbefore saying you could get him battle rezed, here is the thing, most bosses were UNTAUNTABLE.
A lost main/offtank midfight where he was needed it was an instant "WIPE" call, becouse it was IMPOSSIBLE TO CATCH UP with threat to be close to the top on threat list.

[Gungnir]

you compare apples with oranges.

your logic only makes sense when wow had never changed. but the game changed (A LOT) in evry xpac. and the ppl changed theirselfes with / according to the game. your logic is horrible false here.

a simple counter argument here: if your logic would be true, and players that complete played i.e. counter strike since first day and nevr stopped, could be never beaten by any othr player that later hopped in, because their exp will always be higher than newer players one.

its complete BS what you talk, sorry.

Except Grim, to take an example you should be able to understand, played during the patches where rogues were still horribly broken and way before their numerous nerfs and adjustments in Vanilla.
Compare him to any other player in the current day on the 1.12 base, and they'd still out-do him 9 out of 10 times.

You can't beat knowledge and time.

You are basicly saying that we were idiots, kids and had no clue about the game

Are you still trying to say that THE MATH, a simple 2+2=4 is not correct and you can make it a different numbers? Than I challange you. Prove it. We have done it before, in Vanila. Then in next expansions, and something that was a hell of a achievment - a working feral druid rotation sim working in real time in 2010(?).

It's such a shame community has no track or backup of what was on ElitistJerks and top raiding guilds.
Ill watch how the world burns when people who never really immersed in it finally goes online.

No, you're taking it awfully personal which I'm not surprised about considering your track record when posting.

And also, you are basically making a lot of claims with no way to back it up at all. Awfully convenient when you're claiming that you missed NOTHING back in Vanilla and you had all the knowledge in the world.
Tell me then, dear omniscient being, if you all were such incredibly talented and intelligent individuals, why did none of your blessed knowledge get passed around on the general forums or thottbot?

[Mihalik]

You are basicly saying that we were idiots, kids and had no clue about the game

Are you still trying to say that THE MATH, a simple 2+2=4 is not correct and you can make it a different numbers? Than I challange you. Prove it. We have done it before, in Vanila. Then in next expansions, and something that was a hell of a achievment - a working feral druid rotation sim working in real time in 2010(?).

It's such a shame community has no track or backup of what was on ElitistJerks and top raiding guilds.
Ill watch how the world burns when people who never really immersed in it finally goes online.

I actually think that while they'll release "classic WoW" they will in fact make some quality of life tweaks that will significantly increase the playability of most classes and specs.

Small changes like adding some mechanics to every tank spec to deal with Crushing Blows. Etc.

I seriously doubt they'll release the game in a time capsule state because people would fucking flip a shit when they realize that 80% of the things they love/enjoy/fan over is utterly unplayable and completely broken, no matter what the fuck you do cuz LOL RNG YOU DEAD or spam 1 spell on cooldown and watch that mana bar like a hawk.

They'll keep spell ranks and stuff but in all likelihood will tweak mana management before people go into a full meltdown realizing that they just used their entire mana pool in a single rotation after like 30 seconds into a 5-10 minute fight.

[Sorcereria]

why did none of your blessed knowledge get passed around on the general forums or thottbot?

Ion Hazzikostas and many others would be hell of laughing reading this.

Becouse it wasnt THE place to do so. I told you, did you ever heard about EJ?
Not to mention many tools were developed guild wise and not shared publicly or towards bigger audience untill the content was on farm status . Some things were considered as industrial espionage.

[Gungnir]

I actually think that while they'll release "classic WoW" they will in fact make some quality of life tweaks that will significantly increase the playability of most classes and specs.

Small changes like adding some mechanics to every tank spec to deal with Crushing Blows. Etc.

I seriously doubt they'll release the game in a time capsule state because people would fucking flip a shit when they realize that 80% of the things they love/enjoy/fan over is utterly unplayable and completely broken, no matter what the fuck you do cuz LOL RNG YOU DEAD or spam 1 spell on cooldown and watch that mana bar like a hawk.

They'll keep spell ranks and stuff but in all likelihood will tweak mana management before people go into a full meltdown realizing that they just used their entire mana pool in a single rotation after like 30 seconds into a 5-10 minute fight.

They're not releasing Classic for the current playerbase, they're releasing Classic for the people that have been campaigning for it since WotLK.
They won't be making any sort of QoL changes because they'd alienate the very playerbase they're trying to please.

Becouse it wasnt the place to do so Ion Hazzikostas would be hell of laughing reading it.

Yeah okay buddy.
It's funny, I was on EJ back in the day and I don't remember seeing any mention of, for example, Wolfshead interactions with powershifting.
Must've just been in some private channel that only you had access to, amirite?

[araine]

It is possible with players having a higher skill cap than back in the day... and with a greater understanding of the game... that specs once considered to be "useless" can be made into usable and fun specs.

Druid tank on druid call on nefarian yeah flat on the ground you go on that call. you want classic, classic will be warrior tanks, druids priests paladins and shamans are all healers and as paladins you better hope they arent giving you the 5min buff version as real old school vanilla was

[Mihalik]

I think you mean

1) Don't be grouped with elitist players, ... they remain terrible to play with no matter what.

2) Expect the DPS to magically play the exact same, since a feral does the same or more threat than a warrior

3) (Resto) Druids job in Vanilla is to innervate the priest and spam Healing Touch R4?

The only place a Druid Tank is acually viable is pretty much everywhere as a offtank and the occational main tank.

What are you talking about? Yes druid was garbage and only useful in a few fringe situations.

Threat is nice and important...not getting killed by a single crushing blow is even more important.

- - - Updated - - -

They're not releasing Classic for the current playerbase, they're releasing Classic for the people that have been campaigning for it since WotLK.
They won't be making any sort of QoL changes because they'd alienate the very playerbase they're trying to please.

I have zero intention of playing it either way (I don't even play WoW anymore :P, I'm mostly just here for the Gen Off-Topic). But, based on some the threads I've seen on the topic by people who claim they want to play it, I often wonder if they actually ever made it past the 14 day free trial or if they ever set foot in Scarlet Monastery let alone Stratholme or an actual raid.

[Gungnir]

I have zero intention of playing it either way (I don't even play WoW anymore :P, I'm mostly just here for the Gen Off-Topic). But, based on some the threads I've seen on the topic by people who claim they want to play it, I often wonder if they actually ever made it past the 14 day free trial or if they ever set foot in Scarlet Monastery let alone Stratholme or an actual raid.

Aye, I've seen quite a few of them around, but they aren't the intended playerbase either.
Blizzard knows that there'll be quite a few people that won't like it, but it's also a pretty safe bet from a company standpoint.

The only expense is fixing the base system it's using and developing it to work with 1.12 patch data, and then having a smaller staff to manage customer relations and requests.
Costs almost nothing to keep the servers up and it's something that won't need further development or new patches, aswell as it's great PR for them to finally give the masses something they've been asking for a long time.


I think Blizz realised that it's hard to lose in this scenario.

[Razzako]

yeah, i am THAT hyped for all that kiddies that „totally know classic“ and tell you whats going on, when they realize the first time, that you have to run 5mins or so, to your dead body, after a wipe that will be soooo funny when they all start crying at the same time worldwide

As I said, they're free to play however they want as you are. You are also free to decide who to play with, as do they. What's going to be funny though, is people like you still crying over not getting invites anywhere on these forums, cause you wanted to go down a path that most people told you not to, simply because it does not works as effectively as other classes. Nobody wants to carry someone else's weight just so that they can be a special under-performing snowflake.

And no, corpse runs in raids like MT and AQ40 could take 20 minutes at the very least when you were deep in the instance. It's not just running back, it's rebuffing, people going on small breaks waiting for others, thrash respawn, and all that shit, which is just a mess. It's 40 people after all. Easy way to spot players who never played Vanilla are idiots who say all it takes is 5 minutes to run back to your corpse, SMH.

Probably cause you never got past the first bosses running hybrid builds lol.

[Thunderball]

It's been tested, Feral tank is shit. I dont even wanna address the 100% MCP uptime, because that's just stupid. Might aswell have 100% Recklessness uptime.

[Katchii]

nope. they were always garbage - and so they will be seen as garbage in classic.

i seriusly feel sad for all those poor bastards who will roll shit class/spec and waste a month leveling only to have to level another toon because they will be never wanted anywhere.

I'm skeptical about this, simply because I've seen the WoW community over the past few years call someone doing a few % less than top garbage.

I agree somewhat with the mentality, that it's just better to bring someone who is playing the "correct" class is more likely to perform better, but not with calling the others "garbage."

I also agree with you in that I feel bad for people with this vision of playing a "hybrid" class as some amazing class, but are little more than buff bots or whatever and relegated to only support while the "pure" classes are the ones pulling most of the weight.

[Gungnir]

I'm skeptical about this, simply because I've seen the WoW community over the past few years call someone doing a few % less than top garbage.

I agree somewhat with the mentality, that it's just better to bring someone who is playing the "correct" class is more likely to perform better, but not with calling the others "garbage."

I also agree with you in that I feel bad for people with this vision of playing a "hybrid" class as some amazing class, but are little more than buff bots or whatever and relegated to only support while the "pure" classes are the ones pulling most of the weight.

Hybrid classes are AMAZINGLY valuable as supports.
Innervate was an absolute must and they brought some pretty strong heals once they got BWL gear.

I think people don't realize that Vanilla WoW was balanced around D&D-style roles instead of specs themselves, but that also gave Blizzard an opportunity to give classes some incredibly powerful tools in their own niches.
For example, Blessing of Salvation is arguably the most overpowered spell in the entire game.

It's literally impossible for players to "have a higher skill cap". That is nonsense. The skill cap remains the same. The number of players who reach it is likely to increase.

That's a better way of putting it, yeah.
There'll be a lot more players with better system mastery in comparison to back then.

[Lollis]

Also, too much parry could be bad as well. Will Classic have the old parry-haste issue that could gib a tank?

(I haven't done much raiding since Cata, it's true, but I can give you chapter and verse about parry-haste, and defense and crushing blows, and warrior shield block, etc.)

Might be misunderstanding you here but im pretty sure that the parry haste mechanic was when a boss parries it gets increased attack speed for an attack which is why you didn't want melee dps hitting him from the front.

[Kralljin]

nope. they were always garbage - and so they will be seen as garbage in classic.

i seriusly feel sad for all those poor bastards who will roll shit class/spec and waste a month leveling only to have to level another toon because they will be never wanted anywhere.

I find this rather ironic, considering the thread title, because that is probably what a lot of people encountered that rolled hybrids.

I mean in Vanilla you had the excuse that game was new and fresh, but in 2019 you don't have that excuse anymore, Vanilla was widely known for its whacky balance situation.
That's like buying a car you heard from multiple people is prone to break, then be surprised it actually happens to you.

If you roll a hybrid, you know that you're most likely signing up as healer for your endgame role, can't come around once you're 60 and go "wow, that wasn't just gossip?!" and expect pity.

[Canield]

Prepare for defiance fury tanking. Prepare for hybrid restoration feral tank/healers. Prepare for tanks well below traditional defense cap. Prepare for shadow weaving power infusion priests. Hell at this point prepare for deep prot holy paladin kiting scarabs on KT.

The meta will be far different than people are willing to accept.