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  1. #1

    Stop panicking, just to CoS after BoD

    I'm seeing a lot of ppl to panic just because they can't deal with Jaina before the release of CoS. People just seem to forget you can clear CoS after they have finished BoD just like in previous expansions:

    In Cata ppl focused on first raid at time during launch.

    In MoP HoF was opened after only ~100 guilds killed HC Will of the Emperor, not a big deal.
    ToES was opened after only ~300 guilds killed HC Will of the Emperor and only 48 killed HC Grand Empress Shek'zeer. Not a big deal, guilds just killed went to new instance after first one was almost done.

    Same thing in WoD with BRF, only ~420 guilds killed mythic Imperator Mar'gok before the release of BRF.

    And let's not forget Helya and Nighthold.

  2. #2
    Its just a mini raid, we can even call it a story raid. It brings lots of lore for us about N'Zoth and everything going on there.

    No reason to stress with BoD. Azhara raid wont be out in months.

  3. #3
    There's every reason to be panicking. Many, many, MANY guilds have died or will die to Jaina. If you're not killing Jaina this week then that just increases your guild's odds of being yet another one. That also doesn't speak to recruiting issues as an 8/9m guild. Burnout is as real as it has ever been right now.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  4. #4
    Define a lot. I have not seen anybody panic or complain about it, so based on my anecdotal observation and interpretation, this is the perfect implementation of the "raid"

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by uopayroll View Post
    Define a lot. I have not seen anybody panic or complain about it, so based on my anecdotal observation and interpretation, this is the perfect implementation of the "raid"
    There are plenty of complaints in other threads here and official forums.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    There are plenty of complaints in other threads here and official forums.
    People complain about anything, shrug.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    There's every reason to be panicking. Many, many, MANY guilds have died or will die to Jaina. If you're not killing Jaina this week then that just increases your guild's odds of being yet another one. That also doesn't speak to recruiting issues as an 8/9m guild. Burnout is as real as it has ever been right now.
    Lol no.

    Guilds die from burn out and entitlement.

    There is always some sort of "I AM SO MUCH BETTER, WHY AM I IN A TOP 500 GUILD, I SHOULD BE TOP 50" and they just try to skip/get carried by the next guild.

    Usually 1/10 is actually better , the other 9 join some top 200 guild that needs extra raiders and they are the same people that end up gquiting when they get sat out for an older raid etc or they simply arent as good as they think and babyrage when its pointed out.

    Its the usual vicious cycle of raiding because the guild that loses entitled scrubs end up having no people to raid, leadership gives up and does guild hopping also or stops playing etc.

    Burn out happens because people raid more than they should or dont accept that the guild isnt at that level this particular raid etc and they keep pushing.

    Individual burnout is another thing
    Last edited by potis; 2019-04-16 at 08:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    There's every reason to be panicking. Many, many, MANY guilds have died or will die to Jaina. If you're not killing Jaina this week then that just increases your guild's odds of being yet another one. That also doesn't speak to recruiting issues as an 8/9m guild. Burnout is as real as it has ever been right now.
    Guilds that die to Jaina where going to die anyways, and they will use Jaina as an excuse.

    Guilds die because the guild itself isn't healthy, not because of the actual content. There is a reason there are guilds out there that have survived many expansions, some even since vanilla and still raid at a world top 500 level. Because they are healthy guilds ran by a healthy leadership.

    Guilds that are ran properly will know when a problem is going to arise before it arises and already be recruiting to absorb that blow.

    Most of these guilds that "die" every expansion where the hot shot startups at the end of an xpac/beginning of next with ideas of grandeur yet the leadership was all people that regularly quit when the going gets tough. They lure in players with their past IE accomplishments "oh I got world 98 Mar'Gok 2 expansions ago", while neglecting to mention they quit on Blackhand. Don't join guilds like this and you usually won't have to worry about your guild dying mid xpac.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2019-04-16 at 11:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Guilds that die to Jaina where going to die anyways, and they will use Jaina as an excuse.

    Guilds die because the guild itself isn't healthy, not because of the actual content. There is a reason there are guilds out there that have survived many expansions, some even since vanilla and still raid at a world top 500 level. Because they are healthy guilds ran by a healthy leadership.

    Guilds that are ran properly will know when a problem is going to arise before it arises and already be recruiting to absorb that blow.
    This rings true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Most of these guilds that "die" every expansion where the hot shot startups at the end of an xpac/beginning of next with ideas of grandeur yet the leadership was all people that regularly quit when the going gets tough. They lure in players with their past IE accomplishments "oh I got world 98 Mar'Gok 2 expansions ago", while neglecting to mention they quit on Blackhand. Don't join guilds like this and you usually won't have to worry about your guild dying mid xpac.
    This is a gross oversimplification. Guilds that have been raiding since Vanilla or TBC have changed their leadership many times by now. The semi-hardcore guild I was a part of - had at least 4 different GMs starting from Vanilla till it stopped raiding in Legion. It probably had several more GMs that I never met because I was not there from the start, and because I took long breaks throughout the years and something might have slipped past me.

    Nearly every change of leadership is an important test for the guild. It often signifies different eras for the guild, with different people in spotlight. The guild transforms beyond recognition over time. And it takes only one leadership's mistakes to make the guild die.

    What helped us survive for so long was exactly the subtle connections to the guild's past. The community. The active casuals and (very few) raiders that were in the guild for 10+ years. It's easy to lose track of the guild's legacy and then your 13 years old guild will be no different from the hot shot startup that formed just 6 months ago.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    This rings true.



    This is a gross oversimplification. Guilds that have been raiding since Vanilla or TBC have changed their leadership many times by now. The semi-hardcore guild I was a part of - had at least 4 different GMs starting from Vanilla till it stopped raiding in Legion. It probably had several more GMs that I never met because I was not there from the start, and because I took long breaks throughout the years and something might have slipped past me.

    Nearly every change of leadership is an important test for the guild. It often signifies different eras for the guild, with different people in spotlight. The guild transforms beyond recognition over time. And it takes only one leadership's mistakes to make the guild die.

    What helped us survive for so long was exactly the subtle connections to the guild's past. The community. The active casuals and (very few) raiders that were in the guild for 10+ years. It's easy to lose track of the guild's legacy and then your 13 years old guild will be no different from the hot shot startup that formed just 6 months ago.
    Of course its an over simplification, wow has been around long enough that its "all" happened. Theres a big core of truth to what hes saying though. Even in your example the entity of the guild continued and people bought into that, changing GM is a smaller event than forming a new guild because in the existing guild theres already some glue binding members together.

    I think you're both generally right though, this is just a wider topic than lends itself to simple examples.

    But as a rule I'll stay away from the "reformed" or "new guild consisting of top xxx players" and so on. Then again, I'm super cycnical. "Lots of banter" and "be able to take constructive criticism" normally indicates complete cunts with no social filter and so on.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Guilds that die to Jaina where going to die anyways, and they will use Jaina as an excuse.

    Guilds die because the guild itself isn't healthy, not because of the actual content. There is a reason there are guilds out there that have survived many expansions, some even since vanilla and still raid at a world top 500 level. Because they are healthy guilds ran by a healthy leadership.

    Guilds that are ran properly will know when a problem is going to arise before it arises and already be recruiting to absorb that blow.

    Most of these guilds that "die" every expansion where the hot shot startups at the end of an xpac/beginning of next with ideas of grandeur yet the leadership was all people that regularly quit when the going gets tough. They lure in players with their past IE accomplishments "oh I got world 98 Mar'Gok 2 expansions ago", while neglecting to mention they quit on Blackhand. Don't join guilds like this and you usually won't have to worry about your guild dying mid xpac.
    This is the ugly truth although most people don't want to believe it
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Of course its an over simplification, wow has been around long enough that its "all" happened. Theres a big core of truth to what hes saying though. Even in your example the entity of the guild continued and people bought into that, changing GM is a smaller event than forming a new guild because in the existing guild theres already some glue binding members together.

    I think you're both generally right though, this is just a wider topic than lends itself to simple examples.

    But as a rule I'll stay away from the "reformed" or "new guild consisting of top xxx players" and so on. Then again, I'm super cycnical. "Lots of banter" and "be able to take constructive criticism" normally indicates complete cunts with no social filter and so on.
    that is only semi truth too .

    guilds that run for many expansions die too on all levels - because hardly anyone sane withstands more then couple of tiers of non stop raiding.

    people in those guilds quit raiding too - they swap to social status and are perfecly happy with it.

    guild stays alive as long as it has stable source of new recruits - once it dies out guilds die too. even at world 100-500.

    no king rules forever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Lol no.

    Guilds die from burn out and entitlement.

    There is always some sort of "I AM SO MUCH BETTER, WHY AM I IN A TOP 500 GUILD, I SHOULD BE TOP 50" and they just try to skip/get carried by the next guild.

    Usually 1/10 is actually better , the other 9 join some top 200 guild that needs extra raiders and they are the same people that end up gquiting when they get sat out for an older raid etc or they simply arent as good as they think and babyrage when its pointed out.

    Its the usual vicious cycle of raiding because the guild that loses entitled scrubs end up having no people to raid, leadership gives up and does guild hopping also or stops playing etc.

    Burn out happens because people raid more than they should or dont accept that the guild isnt at that level this particular raid etc and they keep pushing.

    Individual burnout is another thing
    i have a bit different view on this.

    in my eyes burn out happens mainly because raids got so overcomplicated and overtuned over they years that we are in ridiculous spot right now.

    all of this to appease top 1 % just so they dont whine about "lol what a joke this raid was"

    when in reality it was hard like hell - they are just too good after playing this game for 15 + years that they dont even notice it anymore.

    imo raids on all modes should be nerfed by at least 20-30% compared to what it is now.

    want proof ? - look at all those guid who cba to kill jaina now even though it has mount - but its just so ridiculously overtuned that they wont start to farm her untill they collect extra 40 itlv from next tier -_-

    yes some people on this forum whoudl whine like little kids - but i bet you that majority raiding community would sight with relief

    dont want straight easier content ? easy solution - bring back ICC / DS style nerfs.

    think how many guilds would be still around and wouldnt die if those nerfs were in game thoough Legion and BfA

  13. #13
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    Id be more optimistic if mythic jaina wasnt the most unfun boss ive done in the past 12 years

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Id be more optimistic if mythic jaina wasnt the most unfun boss ive done in the past 12 years
    Jaina is just the culmination of the general RNG in the game. If your attempt Titanforges into perfect Icefalls and trivial P1 timers, you win. If not, you get instantly murdered by Icefall falling straight on your head during full Blizzard.

  15. #15
    No one has killed her yet, she runs away alive after the fight.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Jaina is just the culmination of the general RNG in the game. If your attempt Titanforges into perfect Icefalls and trivial P1 timers, you win. If not, you get instantly murdered by Icefall falling straight on your head during full Blizzard.
    P1 rng is irrelevant, you can play around everything.

    You can easily tell where Icefall is coming from during Full Blizzard by having a Hunter/Shaman use Eagle Eye/Farsight at the opposite wall you are at(very important that it is exactly opposite), if you see Icefall animation there, you can quickly tell your raid that you need to move.

    The only RNG part of the fight right now is Icefall spawns in P3.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    P1 rng is irrelevant, you can play around everything.

    You can easily tell where Icefall is coming from during Full Blizzard by having a Hunter/Shaman use Eagle Eye/Farsight at the opposite wall you are at(very important that it is exactly opposite), if you see Icefall animation there, you can quickly tell your raid that you need to move.

    The only RNG part of the fight right now is Icefall spawns in P3.
    So the "only" RNG comes at the very end, meaning you lose maximum possible amount of time. That makes it so much better and very enjoyable for rekills.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    So the "only" RNG comes at the very end, meaning you lose maximum possible amount of time. That makes it so much better and very enjoyable for rekills.
    Yes, the only RNG is at the every end, about half way through the 1:30-40 last phase. Which is why the boss is a gigantic dumpster trash.

    Any time you have to move from Icefalls is almost certainly a wipe, since the boss stays still for so long during Icefall casts, when she runs back to the raid, she will 100% guaranteed cast the frontal cone on the raid. Not only that, but melee can't hit her during this time, so you lose a massive amount of DPS.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Guilds that die to Jaina where going to die anyways, and they will use Jaina as an excuse.

    Guilds die because the guild itself isn't healthy, not because of the actual content. There is a reason there are guilds out there that have survived many expansions, some even since vanilla and still raid at a world top 500 level. Because they are healthy guilds ran by a healthy leadership.

    Guilds that are ran properly will know when a problem is going to arise before it arises and already be recruiting to absorb that blow.

    Most of these guilds that "die" every expansion where the hot shot startups at the end of an xpac/beginning of next with ideas of grandeur yet the leadership was all people that regularly quit when the going gets tough. They lure in players with their past IE accomplishments "oh I got world 98 Mar'Gok 2 expansions ago", while neglecting to mention they quit on Blackhand. Don't join guilds like this and you usually won't have to worry about your guild dying mid xpac.
    anyone that doesnt agree with this is in a shit guild or quits themselves when things dont go their way
    top guild member
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post

    In Cata ppl focused on first raid at time during launch.
    The "first raid at time during launch" was all 3 of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Maybe dress my kid as a fel guard and rip shit up in the neighbourhood.

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