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  1. #41
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Rolling on an item when it drops.

  2. #42
    I always favour loot council.

    When I do loot council it essentially ends up being a round robin with priorities, you take something this drop then the next drop is 99% going to someone else. Your raid should be there for each other and the experience not just to snuffle loot with a DKP system, all of which seem to(especially in Vanilla whereby from an individual perspective loot is scarce) prompt antithetical raid progress behaviour. Suicide kings is by far the worst imo the penalty for taking loot can be far far too great. I have always approached this from the perspective everyone is going to get everything they want eventually or something better and not only that, by being in my raid that is actually part of your obligation.

    We adopted loot council in wrath but honestly that was easy because of the smaller raid sizes and we could actually wing it. In a 40 man you are nigh guaranteed a couple of problematic differences: More people will be absent and the experience will be a lot more drawn out(basically loot scarcity) so people are going to get a lot more antsy when there is a system they cannot keep track of.

    No one knows what the situation is going to be with vanilla just yet. If you are going to have a high turnover raid with a lot of casuals you really need a DKP system. I ran a late night 25 man pug in ICC and it worked with the hybrid DKP system + casuals because the core raid had everything off our regular cleared bosses that they could possibly want so it was free rolls.

    That *might* still work in vanilla where I am personally expecting there to be a lot more cases of people turning up then just not. No matter how much you stress the point it seems that you always find people who revert to "wow is just game" so they can freely piss over your organisational effort and tell you to get over it.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  3. #43
    Scarab Lord Leih's Avatar
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    I've been through a lot of different loot systems over the years of managing guilds.

    One of the biggest problems I always found with predetermined, transparent council systems is that they only work if you have a whole guild dedicated to raiding and progress for the fun of raiding/winning. It's great for competitive guilds full of competitive people... but as soon as you try to implement such a system in a less competitive environment, you start to run into people a lot more motivated by loot and rewards.

    The system starts to have problems at this point. For example, you get people simply not turning up for raids ("My sister's dog's uncle needs me to babysit his guinea pigs and I have an exam tomorrow so I need to also study all night") or being "late" when they know they won't be getting anything that week.

    For such guilds, having some element of randomness (via rolling/bidding) or attendance reward (via DKP/EP/other points) to encourage joining each raid helps a lot.
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  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    And that's why blizzard removed it. Because mythic raiders never abused it and there were never problems with distribution. Oh wait. There were massive problems. There was a minority that had tantrums when personal loot was finally forced on mythic raiders but there were more that applauded the move.

    Loot council invites corruption by its very nature. The level you raid does not determine the level of corruption.

    I will be (if I even bother) will just go with rolls.
    Ive yet to see actual proof of these "massive problems", if you or anyone else could link me with threads or videos about it that would be nice.
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  5. #45
    My favorite system is the regular DKP system. Points for attendance per boss, consumables that are needed farmed, ect. Thing is I was a Druid so this system really works great for any class that raids don't bring very many of. Most of the time I was competeing against 1 or 2 other people. Sometimes it was just me lol. So really I knew I wasn't competing against anyone for gear so I wouldn't roll on it to keep my DKP and let it go to free roll. Then just get it by default cause no one else wanted it lol. Then I used my DKP to gear up my offspec BOOMKIN for BG's. Sometimes it pays to be a class that no one plays. Just gotta be good enough for them to bring you past BWL.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    loot council is best for server first guilds, some form of dkp/epgp is best for regular guilds

    the problem is when bad guilds think they're good enough to succeed with loot council
    You don't have to be "server first" to care about progression and improvement of your raid group.
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    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
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  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    U get these shitty loot council when u do loot council in a normal/hc "raiding" guild

    Actual mythic guilds got proper lootcouncil, but im guessing u have zero experience with that
    Even in mythic guilds it happened more than enough.
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  8. #48
    I am Murloc! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Even in mythic guilds it happened more than enough.
    Ive still not seen a single shred of proof, forum posts, images of whispers or closed of forums with this.

    Until we see it, ill assume its just going on in cesspool guilds and not proper mythic guilds, and a guild that killed 1-2 Mythic bosses in a raid then the next tier is out is NOT a proper mythic guild.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by noragrets View Post
    I'd appreciate your guys' opinions on the matter of what you think would be the most fitting loot distribution rule set (DKP, Loot Council, EPGP, Suicide Kings, ...) for your raid guild situation come the release of Blizzards Classic servers.

    How will you distribute loot (in the case of a leadership position) or would you like to see loot being distributed (in the case of a raid member) amongst you and your fellow raid members?
    Note that i personally havent given much of a damn about gear ever. Loot is cool and all but it's not what im after in raids. If Loot was all i were playing for i'd play dungeon crawlers or some degenerate lootbox game.

    So if i were a leader position. Normal Group Loot and just kick out anyone that is an arsehole and keep all other decent people.
    If i were a member i'd still prefer normal Group Loot, because i dont have to do anything other than to know what i should get and what not to get.

    I guess it's not the loot systems fault but the thing i dislike the most about when loot is handles slow. Is when half your raid stands over the corpse and drools of the loot.
    Why are you standing over the boss when you have no say in who gets it? Get your fat ass moving, let's kill some Fucking bosses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    For most guilds DKP system where highest dkp holder wins item at fixed cost is best.
    DKP is the most double edged sword of them all. It only works when ALL your members have the same mindset of loot. If even one out of your 45-ish player roster intentionally tries to fuck someone else over, it falls apart instantly. The DKP system for each member is to easy to abuse it regurally just turns into most players having this mindset of "i know X guy wants it and he shares the same loot i want so ill make him spend alot of his points so i get more loot"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    And that's why blizzard removed it. Because mythic raiders never abused it and there were never problems with distribution. Oh wait. There were massive problems. There was a minority that had tantrums when personal loot was finally forced on mythic raiders but there were more that applauded the move.

    Loot council invites corruption by its very nature. The level you raid does not determine the level of corruption.
    All loot systems invites corruption if the players wants it to be corrupted. Loot council is a empty canvas and the council is who determens if the system is used bad or used well. The same is true for most other Loot Systems aswell.

    The fault isn't in the system, the fault is on the user.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by noragrets View Post
    Appreciate your input, haven't thought about being transparent that deeply. Your system makes sense, since loot drama could be kept outside of actual raiding hours, and I like the level of transparency.

    On the downside, it sounds like a lot of work (if you have to incorporate 40+ people) and makes me wonder, if people stop showing up to certain raids, because they're not #1 on the list for their most beloved item (similar to what's being said about the Suicide Kings system).

    Did you use a system like this already? What's your practical experience in that regard
    Been part of a guild on a Pserver used this method and it worked wonders, we recived little to no drama. How you'd set this up is simply. You tell your role officers to set up the loot for their role. So one of your officers who manages the Melee loot. Another officer manages the Tank loot, and so on.

  10. #50
    I am good with continuing the true vanilla loot distribution system where every piece of loot is hunter loot . After I pick the items I like , I’ll pass the unwanted scraps on to the support classes.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Valerossi View Post
    I am good with continuing the true vanilla loot distribution system where every piece of loot is hunter loot . After I pick the items I like , I’ll pass the unwanted scraps on to the support classes.
    I look forward to this so much.

  12. #52
    all those poor naive people who belive that guilds will use any other system but loot councils to gear up officers first

    you are in for a huuuuge dissapointment

  13. #53
    Loot in Vanilla was everything. Even more than today.

    We used DKP all the time and it worked fairly well. Not perfect of course but we were “friends” enough to set up loots per classes before runs so that we hadn’t to spend tons of points to outbid each others.

    Don’t believe that much about loot council for “standard” guilds, could lead to drama quite fast. Also (again speaking about standard guilds) assigning loot basing on performance only is quite unfair imho: either I’m out of the raid or if I’m in and the boss goes down is also thanks to me, regardless my performance, so I don’t think it’s fair to exclude me by default from looting.

  14. #54
    I mean for nostalgia would be cool to see DKP systems again just because it would be.. but it won't be.. almost everyone will do LC.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    You don't have to be "server first" to care about progression and improvement of your raid group.
    point is if you're not a guild that can actually clear content without the gear (week 1&2), chances are you're not good enough to loot council properly

  16. #56
    Dedicated raid team of 45-55 people.

    People understand we are here to have fun, but the guild does need certain folks geared out by aq.

    That said, dkp or loot council is best. Most loot councils in established guilds are pretty much quick checks to make sure its an actual upgrade or that one person doesn’t REALLY need the upgrade, then those eligible just roll off, and at least in my experience often people just look at the gear of those they’re to roll against and just default the item to them as the head see it as bigger advantage for the other guy. But that sort of loot council attitude requires that people are “over” playing for purps and are there for guildies and just enjoying the process/content.

    I prefer a dkp system. With bid single blind bid pricing, collusion allowed, and per tier resets.

    With my progression oriented 55 man roster, we are lean and mean, if you horde dkp to get the first ashkandi and your dps blows since you skipped out on all other bwl upgrades, I’ll probably bench you for the warrior chomping at the bit to not be sitting outside the instance. I’m a fan of letting people have agency over their loot, comparing dkp, what he has you have, talking to them working out an agreement considering okay “well I know i wont get nef wep first, so why save for the bid war? I’ll just go hard on Drake Talon Cleaver, the Chromagus boots and drake talon paulsrons. I’ll grab the 3rd-4th ashkandi for 1/3rd the price.

    Or my priest who desperately wanted t2 3 piece, a piece drops and it’s someone else’s 8/8. They’d want it, I want it, wed bid out against eachother but we worked it out and I was able to snag a different piece of loot his dkp would have let him get before me later on.

  17. #57
    Ideally loot council but im skeptical of how effective it will be during the entry period with MC.

  18. #58
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    Vanilla Naxx would like to speak with you.

    And those raids? Didn't have a built in Raid Journal telling you EVERYTHING that was going to happen and how your class should deal with it.
    In Vanilla there was much preparation involved before you could even attempt to enter the raid.. from gearing by farming dungeons and other raids, to attunements, to gathering a plethora of raid consumables including weapon stones/oils...

    Now you can just go spam the world quests and world bosses, maybe run through an easier version of the raid to pick up some easy items, then just walk right into Mythic. You have what... a couple pots and a flask you need? LOL

    Vanilla required investment to raid... current WoW? Any dolt can go raiding, follow a "manual" on what to do and when, and kill bosses.
    Vanilla also had videos of other guilds clearing the raids and explaining how they work, it just wasn't in-game. Also, prepared Mythic raiders will have potions, flasks, feasts, their most optimal enchants and gems, as well as any other temporary buff items they need. It's not as easy as you make it sound, and that's not including keeping track of all the different mechanics and things on the screen going on at once.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Vanilla also had videos of other guilds clearing the raids and explaining how they work, it just wasn't in-game. Also, prepared Mythic raiders will have potions, flasks, feasts, their most optimal enchants and gems, as well as any other temporary buff items they need. It's not as easy as you make it sound, and that's not including keeping track of all the different mechanics and things on the screen going on at once.
    Vanilla naxx will still be rather challenging even in comparison to current day mythic raiding. A good portion of mechanics from the raid got removed in its wrath release and what remained was heavily nerfed. I imagine it will have a few guilds that stump it quickly but to the average player it will be extremely difficult even with full buffs/flasks.

  20. #60
    Loot council

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