View Poll Results: Do you support challenging solo-content?

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  • Yes: I believe it should be developed, permanent content.

    118 54.38%
  • Yes: However, bits and pieces here and there are fine.

    79 36.41%
  • No: Sorry, it's just not something we should do at all.

    20 9.22%
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  1. #1
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Should Blizzard design challenging solo-content?

    I'm relating to my post here, and the thread that it was posted in.

    It's widely understood that solo players can already participate in everything. They can simply queue for dungeons, raids, islands, scenarios and PvP battlegrounds without any blockage, and they can technically complete the entirety of the endgame content by doing so. It requires no effort to build or be part of a community, and the current World Quest system with RNG-related loot that continues to rise means that achievements are equally solo.

    Whether or not you support this is up to yourself.

    My question is whether or not you believe that challenging solo content should be developed as a proper content deliverer.

    It's obviously debatable, but the first recollection I have of this was in Mists of Pandaria. In order to queue yourself within random five-man dungeons, players needed to complete the computer-group scenario to the standard of Silver. While this wasn't challenging to experienced players who complained a great deal about the necessity they believed a waste of time, it was challenging to new players and the expansion to Gold, at the best, delivered character titles that are extremely rare in my experience.

    Also in Mists, there was the legendary quest that was conducted by specs. Those quests were also very challenging, perhaps frustratingly depending on your class, but it was (please correct me if my memory is wrong) hooked into raiding where the linked quests weren't completed by LFR. To an extent, however, that's not important, because it's the concept of challenging solo-content that we're looking at.

    What those quests mean, more than anything, is that the popular Mage Tower that happened in Legion had actually already been done before. The quests where aimed at specs rather than classes, with the key difference being that players could participate in the Mage Tower purely as solo players; there was no need to do raiding in order to participate.

    Perhaps this contributes to the lack of general commentary about the Mists legendary quest in comparison to the Mage Tower?

    In any event, the point is to simply ask us to chuck votes at it given that Ion Hazzikostas has spoken about it and players have been very consistent in the request. All I'm really asking here is whether or not you support the idea, and what time you'd like to see taken up by the concept of challenging solo-content.

    - Would you like it to be a committed system that lasts for the expansion?
    - Would you prefer bits here and bits there, for the odd reward/achievement?

    As always, it's up to you.

  2. #2
    well i guess a little bit of solo content would not hurt. but too much would just not feel warcraft.

  3. #3
    Mage Towers were great. That is all I’m going to say on this topic

  4. #4
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulutooth23 View Post
    well i guess a little bit of solo content would not hurt. but too much would just not feel warcraft.
    It's a bit of a 50/50, really.

    Developed content for solo players could enhance the general subscription level, but that could badly hurt community requirements.

  5. #5
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Well, questing is a lot of soloing, so are pet battles and the pvp objectives in Legion (though all not "challenging"). Also, yeah..as they guy abve said: Mage tower. A bit too challenging for my taste also considering the times it was up only.

    So maybe some of that could be delivered in several difficulties. (Like..quest for more xp with mobs set to "heroic" - thing is ppl will just figure out the most efficient way anyhow)

    All in all, I think WoW has enough solo content...challenging or not

  6. #6
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So maybe some of that could be delivered in several difficulties.
    Technically, that's what the five-man necessity did during Mists. What was needed was the Silver achievement, which wasn't terribly difficult, and the increased challenge that delivered a title was completely voluntary.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    Technically, that's what the five-man necessity did during Mists. What was needed was the Silver achievement, which wasn't terribly difficult, and the increased challenge that delivered a title was completely voluntary.
    This was in WoD, not in MoP

  8. #8
    Legendary! FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Brawl'gar arena is pretty challenging, when you get up in ranks.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  9. #9
    What if they did this:

    1. WoW Classic is a fork of WoW with completely new expansions in its own right instead of make a BC server. These expacs cater to those who want a social experience.
    2. Retail WoW (like BfA and its future expacs) continues on with raids but also lots of solo player content.
    3. Diablo 4 becomes a cross between an ARPG and MMO, with a lot of hardcore RPG elements removed, its more of a fast paced lobby game and lots of solo content.

    To investors this might be the "safe" way to expand the brand. Try new approaches with 3 MMOs. See what works, what doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I want the ruins of K'aresh for 9.0 as I envision it as Netherstorm on steroids. A broken, shattered world. Eco-domes are stuck on various chunks to protect flora & fauna. I imagine a K'aresh ocean & maybe some islands contained in an eco dome or a snow-capped peak with some jungle valleys in another. Flesh version of Ethereals that never got altered. Space platforms as in Starcraft. Just a totally fantastic tileset & theme that I'd be very keen to explore. They could do some wild things.

  10. #10
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Yeah, they should. The Mage Tower was great. From what I can tell it was pretty popular too.

    Suramar was good too. Not as challenging perhaps but a cut above leveling I thought. This stuff plays well with customers too.
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  11. #11
    Yeah loved mage tower and its reward .

  12. #12
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    Technically, that's what the five-man necessity did during Mists. What was needed was the Silver achievement, which wasn't terribly difficult, and the increased challenge that delivered a title was completely voluntary.
    Well, it was a pre-requisite to queue for GROUP content. So if I like challenging solo content I won't necessarily do that. Maybe for the sake of it, but I bet I am not alone in the "screw you Blizzard for several 5 man dungeon requirements in unlocking KT Humans"

    I am sure we sooner or later get into the debate what defines an MMO. And y'all surely have different ideas and memories from the past (as in "An MMO should be like I experienced WoW the first time") - Personally I did a LOT of solo stuff right from the start. Yes, I was in an active guild...but much interaction was in our forum, in chat and teamspeak. Then ofc in raids, when we started those.

    But to this point, outside raids most things for me are solo stuff. (I wasn't ever a fan of 5 mans, I think actually the sprawling dungeons of Classic, that what many seem to like and miss, ruined it right from the start for me.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    What if they did this:

    1. WoW Classic is a fork of WoW with completely new expansions in its own right instead of make a BC server. These expacs cater to those who want a social experience.
    2. Retail WoW (like BfA and its future expacs) continues on with raids but also lots of solo player content.
    3. Diablo 4 becomes a cross between an ARPG and MMO, with a lot of hardcore RPG elements removed, its more of a fast paced lobby game and lots of solo content.

    To investors this might be the "safe" way to expand the brand. Try new approaches with 3 MMOs. See what works, what doesn't.
    Not a bad idea...if only as an experiment.

    But what was in TBC that killed the social aspect for you? I thought that came with WotLK, catchup, LFG and diferent difficulties. They could still modify TBC to be more hardcore Classic. Take out the dailies, the batch gear (basically the rewards and system of IoQD, just leave the raid and 5 man) - and remove flying. Netherwing quests could totally be restructured to have a transport / teleport there and change the ones that needed you to fly.

    With some extra effort it could even be done to WotLK (no catch up, daily 5 mans need you to make a group yourself, only heroic 25 man difficulties, amp up Naxx, hm....re-design the final zone I guess...that had quite some flying required) ...not so much to Cata I guess - as that was made to allow flying in Azeroth ...and beyond. But by that you will know what people think of taking Classic into the next x-pacs.
    Last edited by det; 2019-04-25 at 08:17 AM.

  13. #13
    depends on how they deliver "challenging" content.
    most solo stuff was made in a way to be outgeared by the time the next raid tier is out.
    this can be a good way to progressively nerf the difficulty for inclusion and stuff, but it ruins it if you want to do the stuff at the end of the expac and still have a challenge.

    take Brawl'gar arena: there are already a lot of people who cleared it within the same "gear-Tier" it was released in.
    so the arena is doable in current gear. (a good thing)
    BUT with the constant increase in ilvl, the arena will be less and less challenging (unless you farm bad gear on purpose just to be weaker).
    if i want to try the arena on a different char in 8.2 or 8.3, it will not be the same challenge.

    same happened with mage tower. released with shore, far easier with Antorus gear.

    would be nice to have an option to be scaled down (or given a preset gear template to complete it).

    on that note imagine: you are given a fixed amount of secondary stats and can allocate them how you like, and then have to do a challenge like mage tower or brawl'gar.
    let the number nerds sim the best secondary distribution for ilvl 400, put it on, and go to town.
    or try a fire mage with max crit vs max haste. hardcast pyro for days or unending hot streaks?

    just stuff to goof around with, nothing that affects the traditional progress or impacts other people.

  14. #14
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    This was in WoD, not in MoP
    It happened in Warlords also.

    We know it happened in Mists first, given that is used both Mists buildings and Mists characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well, it was a pre-requisite to queue for GROUP content. So if I like challenging solo content I won't necessarily do that.
    That's true, but I'm really only talking about the concept that was used then and not the intent; the difficulty for group content (Silver) wasn't high, but the difficulty purely for players (Gold) was.

    The key point is that the design has already existed, using something that was mandatory when the Mage Tower wasn't (the legendary quests weren't for solo players either, but they were challenging for them so we should consider their design).

    The key thing to note is that they are all aimed at specs, and not classes. That appears to be one key aspect of the design we've seen so far.

    None of it was aimed at classes.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Narzok View Post
    depends on how they deliver "challenging" content.
    most solo stuff was made in a way to be outgeared by the time the next raid tier is out.
    The same is absolutely true for all content though. Even Mythic raid content is very doable with +30 ilvls over what it gives.

    _____

    I would like challenging solo content in general. Replace the random grouping with actual solo content and offer a way to opt in to challenging overworld content as well. The trick is that you'd first need to get the classes to comparable solo ability. Otherwise what is challenging for my tank is just impossible for someone's mage.
    You cannot though really do that without completely destroying pvp and instanced PvE balance. Which means you'd need a set of additional abilities that are unique to this content. Bodyguards could possibly do that or an opt-in system like War Mode that offers additional choices could also do that.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2019-04-25 at 08:41 AM.

  16. #16
    As Mage Tower has shown ofc they should. Content that will put the player in front of his own successes and failures without anyone to blame is always welcome.

  17. #17
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narzok View Post
    same happened with mage tower. released with shore, far easier with Antorus gear.
    Is that bad though?

    For solo content I would argue that those who want the challenge can take it on early and often and those who find it too difficult can do it successfully after gearing up some. Maybe they won't do it for a month or two or maybe they'll come back again and every so often to see how much further they can get. That's the whole point of something challenging.

    Then too, strategies will emerge over time that can be sought out. Perhaps some people would just give up on it but I tend to think that people failing a piece of content in private may have a different attitude than failing it in a group. Maybe my own bias is showing there.

    @Motorman
    Yeah, you said it better than I.
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  18. #18
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    While I agree, it should be added here and there, but I think that is all it should be. Brawler's Guild, Mage Tower and the Dueler's Guild are fine by me. They shouldn't put more into it. Mage Tower was a lot of content for one thing, and the reward seemed fair enough to me.
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  19. #19
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    Of course! Why not? A bit of challenging solo content would be fantastic. I loved the mage towers.

  20. #20
    They should make more content like the Mage Tower.

    Warfronts are essentially solo content, as are islands. The only difference is, a monkey could complete an island or a warfront. If I had to do something like the Mage Tower each week to cap my Azerite I would probably cap my Azerite.

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