View Poll Results: Do you support challenging solo-content?

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  • Yes: I believe it should be developed, permanent content.

    118 54.38%
  • Yes: However, bits and pieces here and there are fine.

    79 36.41%
  • No: Sorry, it's just not something we should do at all.

    20 9.22%
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  1. #61
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I spent 8 hours literally progressing on that green fire boss before killing it.
    Amusingly, I forgot about that altogether until you mentioned it.

    Again, I know of precious few people who disliked it.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    100%! They were fun, and I completed them on multiple classes as well. My criticism was about calling it a good example "Challenging" solo content because of the reasons I stated earlier.

    Compared to MOP challenge modes for example, I had a much bigger sense of accomplishment, mainly because of the even playing field and skill/team work requirements.
    But that wasn't solo content, which is the point of the thread.

    I do think the MT was not perfect; as you said, the Tank one was a bit silly in how some specs had a super easy time (especially VDH) while others had one hell of an uphill battle to fight (Prot Pally). It also was a less of a tank challenge than a DPS challenge where you taunted shit off Velen every once in a while. But the DPS challenges were generally better balanced across the specs, save for that Tauren with a worm that was completely faceroll. My favorite was the healer challenge, which was quite hard for me as I kind of such at healing but made all the more rewarding when I managed it twice.

    So sure, the Mage Tower had its issues, but it was part of the reason I played so many alts during Legion, trying to experience as much of it as possible, something which I didn't do in any other expansion. Thus I can't call the model anything but a success, it just needs some refinement is all. Hopefully 8.3 introduces a BfA variant.

  3. #63

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    It would appear that Ion Hazzikostas has seen this thread... Interesting if there's any commentary to accompany that.
    But guys! Don't you know this is a tiny vocal minority, and blizzard doesn't come here?!?!?

    /s


    I think that having more content like the Mage Tower and Green Fire is a definite win for WoW. But overall I think challenging content in a general sense is something that WoW has been lacking outside of mythic raids and high tier M+.

    What I would like to see is not just one-off challenges like the Mage Tower, but a place where a solo player can PROGRESS the same way that raiders and M+ players do. And not just faceroll mindless leveling. I want content where you're likely to fail a LOT until you gear up and skill up. But in order to avoid gear opverpowering it, any such content would have to be heavy on execution of fight mechanics rather than simple DPS checks, with rewards based on how well you performed, similar to M+.

    I think it's definitely possible, but I can already hear the raiders crying about devaluing their accomplishments. The rewards structure would have to be carefully balanced, to avoid invalidating the hard work of group-oriented content. But that's something that Titanforging already does, with M+ rewards often times being more powerful than raid rewards. Again, I think this is something that could be partially mitigated by encounters being more about execution based rather than gear-based. Skill > Gear.
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  5. #65
    I love the Mage Tower. And it isn't even repeatable. A healthy MMO should have a mix of challenging solo and group content. And Brawlers Guild really isn't that challenging, I'm pretty sure tanks have enough dps to do that place.

    It would be a nice change of pace as well. The actual skill demand in raids isn't remotely that high, it's moreso waiting for an attempt where all 20 people manage to get their act together at the same time. In solo content it's all on you. No more blaming your group. That is, assuming the solo content is actually difficult in the first place.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I think that having more content like the Mage Tower and Green Fire is a definite win for WoW. But overall I think challenging content in a general sense is something that WoW has been lacking outside of mythic raids and high tier M+.
    I feel this but I'd just take it in the way of removing gear from the equation entirely, keep the rewards cosmetic and just give everyone a gear template because we've already seen with mop brawler's guild and mage tower there wasn't exactly a shortage of one shot mechanics but it still only took 10 ilvls to trivialise it. That way you can tune it as hard as you like and make it last the whole expansion.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by capri sunset View Post
    I feel this but I'd just take it in the way of removing gear from the equation entirely, keep the rewards cosmetic and just give everyone a gear template because we've already seen with mop brawler's guild and mage tower there wasn't exactly a shortage of one shot mechanics but it still only took 10 ilvls to trivialise it. That way you can tune it as hard as you like and make it last the whole expansion.
    I think that standard gear templates migjt work well for one-shot challenges, but not so much for a series of challenges to progress through. At least not while preserving any kind of feeling of progression lile what raiders or M+ players have.

    It's definitely an interesting puzzle to figure out. If you leave some overlap between solo, small group, and raiding activities, you almost have to reward gear from each. But if you make it have its own enclosed system it ends up being basically a separate game.

    One suggestion that keeps popping up is to have gear or set bonuses that only work in specific content. We saw that sort of thing in Uldir.

    I'll be interested to see how Blizzard tackles the issue. Mage Tower was pretty popular, and I think more like that would be good for the game.
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  8. #68
    Scarab Lord Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Yes, more solo content like the challenges from the Arkham games or the God of War series would be neat with WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  9. #69
    Here is my opinion, for what it is worth.

    I would love to see more solo content, absolutely. However, for me, the most successful and enjoyable solo content has cosmetic rewards. Ill try to explain why. If this solo content rewarded gear, it would quickly become a serious progression path. I do NOT want players bypassing group content to obtain gear through solo play. I DO want players to be rewarded for their efforts, solo or otherwise.

    When we look at solo content that has worked well, i believe it fits this mold - green fire, mage tower, to a lesser extent proving grounds. I really enjoyed the mage towers. I enjoyed the challenge, i enjoyed the adrenaline boost when you got or almost got that kill (when it was still challenging) and looking back, i dont think i mind it being quite easy towards the end.

    Personally, i think the answer is scaling. Now, to be clear, i am NOT a fan of the mob scaling with gear bullshit, but i am a huge fan of content scaling with the number of players. And i would like to see it massively expanded upon, and i see a lot of potential for some very popular game systems using this tech. First, an example:

    Island Expeditions (IE) : An interesting idea, with in my opinion very poor execution. One thing i see quite often in relation to the classic release is the sense of exploration and adventure people used to feel when they first played, and how that is totally gone now, and i agree. With the way the internet is, how data mining works, and how the community is now, Blizzard can never really have any secrets left. Unless they venture down the path of random generation and randomized encounters. I would love to see IE scale from 1-10 players, and allow us to explore at our own pace. I would love to see everything that is there now, but with even tougher bosses. If i was having a quiet one and just wanted to put some music on and do some solo content, there is nothing really challenging at all for me, so everything gets boring very, very quickly.

    I would love to have something to do that rewarded cosmetics, mounts, currency, crafting materials etc etc.

  10. #70
    Dreadlord khazmodan's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt that more solo challenges will save WoW but some of the best lore I have seen in game has been from solo experiences. The truth of WoW now is; any pug or open world experience is more than ever like a solo experience with the cross realm groups, sharding and phasing. I personally feel about as disconnected from the players in town as I do when I Travel to another big city in real life and walk through a crowd of people that are quickly going somewhere else. It used to be that I was impressed by people on the same server with me, with achievements that I had not done yet. Now, I couldn't care less about anybody I see in game except for a few guildies, so the desire to do those challenges and have something to talk about with players has been almost eliminated...

  11. #71
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    But overall I think challenging content in a general sense is something that WoW has been lacking outside of mythic raids and high tier M+.
    I completely agree, as it turns out.

    I think Heroic raids and a certain point of the Mythic+ dungeons are the only challenging content in the game, and you can 'complete' it without bothering with either of them. I think the key point in your entire post is one word:

    Progression.

    Vote number one, a continual system rather than just one-off bits, is the more popular choice - that implies that the system, whatever it is, needs progression of some kind. Personally, my favourite would be that gear development was completely overhauled; that statistics, or procs, are introduced to all three of the main contents (let's say group-PvE, single-PvE and PvP). That way, single progression would deliver gear that enhanced your performance with single content but would have no impact on dungeons and raids. This is one example:

    - Soldier: Every critical strike you land increases the damage inflicted by your team mates by 1%. This increase stacks at 5.
    - Explorer: Each time you solely kill an enemy, you will self-heal 3%.
    - Warband: Reduces the damage you take from other players, and increases the damage you do to other players, by 10%.

    Now, these are just pure examples with practically no intent to think them through or balance them. It's just a concept of developing gear-orientated rewards that groups, solos and PvP players benefit from; and, most importantly, in a way that doesn't impact other aspects. Not only would such an approach mean that players get their own rewards without having to play content they don't like, suddenly the chance to specialise professions and develop them reappears. I used to love profession-related specialisations, and this type doesn't present any balance related issues.

    'Tis my stance, anyway, regarding the fact that the highest vote is a clear "yes, single-player content is what I want" while "make it deep" is winning overall.

  12. #72
    for me it would be better if blizzard start developing warcraft solo games a la skyrim/witcher, it would be more costly for them but would give the opportunity to draw new players toward the ip, have a better platform (than books) to build up the story and new characters and also impact less the multiplayer activity of the mmo.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  13. #73
    Yes, solo content, with varying grades of challenge, would be very welcome. Proving Grounds and the Mage Tower have been my favorite pieces of content apart from raiding. Suramar was fantastic story based, solo-progression zone. The warlock green fire quest line and I think hunters have had some pet hunting things as well? I even loved searching for the "music scrolls" for the Garrison Jukebox, even though it wasn't very challenging.

    If each major content patch would add something like this, I'd be a very happy camper.

    And the ultimate addition would be to be able to run dungeons/raids with your chosen group size + NPC helpers.
    Last edited by Greyscale; 2019-04-27 at 07:32 AM.

  14. #74
    Only a very few people are interested in challenges. If blizzard would add solo content, it should have at least two different difficulties, heroic and normal. Normal should have world quest difficulty, heroic should have mage tower difficulty for those who like it.

    We talked about AI bots as mercenaries for every kind of content in the other threads. There should be a special version of dungeons or raids to be playable with NPCs, as like followers from the mission table.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Brawl'gar arena is pretty challenging, when you get up in ranks.
    It isn't hard at all. The most wipes I had was 3 on the final boss. Most bosses died within 10 seconds if you used cooldowns. It wasn't this way in MoP for sure, even with good gear.

  16. #76
    Easy reward solution (+ adds replayability) :
    A currency that allows you to buy the stuff that has been removed from the game (MOP and WOD challenge rewards, Mage Tower, MOP legendary back, limited time raid mounts, etc.)

    You get a coin each time you complete a challenge and items costs more coins depending on how hard it was to get them previously. (ex : 10 coins for the MOP legendary back, 100 coins for 1 Mage Tower skin, etc.).

    If the solo challenges are hard enough, it doesn't devalue the accomplishments of those that got it before. And it allows new players to get stuff they missed (which is a major turn-off for the collector type of player)
    Last edited by Jeryl59; 2019-04-27 at 08:26 AM.

  17. #77
    If they added solo content I wouldn't want it to take up much dev resources, and I also wouldn't want it to be purely for cosmetics. I barely touched Mage Tower because idc about collecting skins.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    It would appear that Ion Hazzikostas has seen this thread... Interesting if there's any commentary to accompany that.
    How so? Curious

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yeah, they should. The Mage Tower was great. From what I can tell it was pretty popular too.

    Suramar was good too. Not as challenging perhaps but a cut above leveling I thought. This stuff plays well with customers too.
    I thought the Suramar questline was absolutely excellent and a real enjoyment to play through. I'm disappointed that they didn't have phased vs non-phased versions to allow someone to go through the initial quests without having Tyrande/Liadrin etc there so you could replay it. Questing in Suramar city was fraught when there was no flying and you had to be careful not to lose your disguise and the story was a really good one.

    I really liked Mage Tower as well, but it doesn't necessarily have to be really challenging solo player content, but a zone like Suramar with an engaging storyline and little side-quests like unlocking all the portals and all the ley-lines was a big hit for me.

    That said, things like the Mage Tower (and tbh also MoP/WoD challenge modes) shouldn't be time-phased - we know that character scaling exists for timewalking etc so that's how it should be dealt with - if I go in with a 120 to Mage Tower, it scales down to 110 and gives me an appropriate level of gear - that way it's a purely skill based challenge. It was also kind of ridiculous how once you'd done the challenge you could never do it again on that character.
    Last edited by Arinnaya; 2019-04-27 at 09:35 AM.

  20. #80
    Legendary! FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    It isn't hard at all. The most wipes I had was 3 on the final boss. Most bosses died within 10 seconds if you used cooldowns. It wasn't this way in MoP for sure, even with good gear.
    Ofc you are doing 100K dps, so you can kill stuff in 10 sec..

    Also, a boss like Ahoo'ru was first a rank 7 boss, then move to special rank (i.e. AFTER rank 7), but is now Rank 3 or 4.. It's is still every bit as difficult as it always was, but come much much earlier this season..

    STOP TROLLING...
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2019-04-27 at 09:52 AM.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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