View Poll Results: Do you support challenging solo-content?

Voters
217. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes: I believe it should be developed, permanent content.

    118 54.38%
  • Yes: However, bits and pieces here and there are fine.

    79 36.41%
  • No: Sorry, it's just not something we should do at all.

    20 9.22%
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  1. #101
    Field Marshal Saorix's Avatar
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    I think things like the Mage Tower work relatively well when they're an occasional occurrence. It does fit a similar niche to the Brawler's guild but I feel the big difference is that the Mage Tower encounters weren't constrained by the short enrage timer aspect that ends up making a fair number of the Brawler's guild encounters feel like filler. Though I personally like when solo encounters are around the 6-8 minute mark. I do personally wish Blizzard would allow the replay of completed Mage Tower challenges with set level scaling and locked item level conditions.

    As long as they allow players to outgear, or outscale it through other means of power creep it'll be widely accessible to everyone who actually wants to try it which is perfectly fine, and there will always be some sort of reward because a designed-to-be-completed solo challenge with no incentive would not be very popular with the majority of people who might have eventually tried it if it did have something that might even interest them slightly.

    Blizzard hasn't really done very many exclusively solo challenges but the times that they have the rewards have always been cosmetic/aesthetic though the only exclusively solo challenges I can think of are Green Fire, Proving Grounds: Endless/Wrong Role and the Mage Tower, but most of the well remembered "solo challenges" have actually had power tied to them though they also required you to do at least some form of group content/raiding so that is probably the line between cosmetic and power. Mainly Rhok/Lhok'delar, Anathema/Benediction come to mind as the best examples I can think of and maybe parts of Dragonwrath or Fangs of the Father though calling those last two well remembered or a challenge might be a stretch.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Saorix View Post
    I think things like the Mage Tower work relatively well when they're an occasional occurrence. It does fit a similar niche to the Brawler's guild but I feel the big difference is that the Mage Tower encounters weren't constrained by the short enrage timer aspect that ends up making a fair number of the Brawler's guild encounters feel like filler. Though I personally like when solo encounters are around the 6-8 minute mark. I do personally wish Blizzard would allow the replay of completed Mage Tower challenges with set level scaling and locked item level conditions.

    As long as they allow players to outgear, or outscale it through other means of power creep it'll be widely accessible to everyone who actually wants to try it which is perfectly fine, and there will always be some sort of reward because a designed-to-be-completed solo challenge with no incentive would not be very popular with the majority of people who might have eventually tried it if it did have something that might even interest them slightly.

    Blizzard hasn't really done very many exclusively solo challenges but the times that they have the rewards have always been cosmetic/aesthetic though the only exclusively solo challenges I can think of are Green Fire, Proving Grounds: Endless/Wrong Role and the Mage Tower, but most of the well remembered "solo challenges" have actually had power tied to them though they also required you to do at least some form of group content/raiding so that is probably the line between cosmetic and power. Mainly Rhok/Lhok'delar, Anathema/Benediction come to mind as the best examples I can think of and maybe parts of Dragonwrath or Fangs of the Father though calling those last two well remembered or a challenge might be a stretch.
    I'd say that the vs Wrathion part of the Legendary cloak quest was somewhat challenging as well.

  3. #103
    Challenging solo content with some awards to show off, like the Mage Tower had unique artifact appearances.

    Titles, unique weapon models, but not mounts and pets.

    A bit every expansion as a prestige achievement of skill and mastery of your class.

    Although I should point the Mage Tower challenge difficulty varied vastly between classes and specs. Some class toolkits made it much easier to complete the same challenge compared to another class.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Brawl'gar arena is pretty challenging, when you get up in ranks.
    The original bosses of MoP were challenging. Current ones are a joke.

    But yes, some challenges like Mage Tower and Brawler's are nice.
    Warlock soloing https://www.youtube.com/user/Firedemon012 (old & abandoned)

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    I'm relating to my post here, and the thread that it was posted in.

    It's widely understood that solo players can already participate in everything. They can simply queue for dungeons, raids, islands, scenarios and PvP battlegrounds without any blockage, and they can technically complete the entirety of the endgame content by doing so. It requires no effort to build or be part of a community, and the current World Quest system with RNG-related loot that continues to rise means that achievements are equally solo.

    Whether or not you support this is up to yourself.

    My question is whether or not you believe that challenging solo content should be developed as a proper content deliverer.

    It's obviously debatable, but the first recollection I have of this was in Mists of Pandaria. In order to queue yourself within random five-man dungeons, players needed to complete the computer-group scenario to the standard of Silver. While this wasn't challenging to experienced players who complained a great deal about the necessity they believed a waste of time, it was challenging to new players and the expansion to Gold, at the best, delivered character titles that are extremely rare in my experience.

    Also in Mists, there was the legendary quest that was conducted by specs. Those quests were also very challenging, perhaps frustratingly depending on your class, but it was (please correct me if my memory is wrong) hooked into raiding where the linked quests weren't completed by LFR. To an extent, however, that's not important, because it's the concept of challenging solo-content that we're looking at.

    What those quests mean, more than anything, is that the popular Mage Tower that happened in Legion had actually already been done before. The quests where aimed at specs rather than classes, with the key difference being that players could participate in the Mage Tower purely as solo players; there was no need to do raiding in order to participate.

    Perhaps this contributes to the lack of general commentary about the Mists legendary quest in comparison to the Mage Tower?

    In any event, the point is to simply ask us to chuck votes at it given that Ion Hazzikostas has spoken about it and players have been very consistent in the request. All I'm really asking here is whether or not you support the idea, and what time you'd like to see taken up by the concept of challenging solo-content.

    - Would you like it to be a committed system that lasts for the expansion?
    - Would you prefer bits here and bits there, for the odd reward/achievement?

    As always, it's up to you.
    nope

    they tried with mage tower as failed horribly because nobody was doing those untill last 2 weeks of expansion .

    besides 1% of nolifers nobody is looking for chalenging content in WoW

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    nope

    they tried with mage tower as failed horribly because nobody was doing those untill last 2 weeks of expansion .

    besides 1% of nolifers nobody is looking for chalenging content in WoW
    99% of players are just lazy incompetent that even irl need to get boosted towards goals

    I mean just release ez pet dungeon every month and new mounts, make retard-proof content and classes and people will pay and stay subbed.
    Why wasting time doing challenging solo content?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Mage Towers were great. That is all I’m going to say on this topic
    Yep, I am glad I have my druid forms from there. I am a special snowflake now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    nope

    they tried with mage tower as failed horribly because nobody was doing those untill last 2 weeks of expansion .

    besides 1% of nolifers nobody is looking for chalenging content in WoW
    I worked at the Druid Mage Tower for about 1.5 months until I got it. I spent a month of that time gearing.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    I'm relating to my post here, and the thread that it was posted in.

    It's widely understood that solo players can already participate in everything. They can simply queue for dungeons, raids, islands, scenarios and PvP battlegrounds without any blockage, and they can technically complete the entirety of the endgame content by doing so. It requires no effort to build or be part of a community, and the current World Quest system with RNG-related loot that continues to rise means that achievements are equally solo.

    Whether or not you support this is up to yourself.

    My question is whether or not you believe that challenging solo content should be developed as a proper content deliverer.

    It's obviously debatable, but the first recollection I have of this was in Mists of Pandaria. In order to queue yourself within random five-man dungeons, players needed to complete the computer-group scenario to the standard of Silver. While this wasn't challenging to experienced players who complained a great deal about the necessity they believed a waste of time, it was challenging to new players and the expansion to Gold, at the best, delivered character titles that are extremely rare in my experience.

    Also in Mists, there was the legendary quest that was conducted by specs. Those quests were also very challenging, perhaps frustratingly depending on your class, but it was (please correct me if my memory is wrong) hooked into raiding where the linked quests weren't completed by LFR. To an extent, however, that's not important, because it's the concept of challenging solo-content that we're looking at.

    What those quests mean, more than anything, is that the popular Mage Tower that happened in Legion had actually already been done before. The quests where aimed at specs rather than classes, with the key difference being that players could participate in the Mage Tower purely as solo players; there was no need to do raiding in order to participate.

    Perhaps this contributes to the lack of general commentary about the Mists legendary quest in comparison to the Mage Tower?

    In any event, the point is to simply ask us to chuck votes at it given that Ion Hazzikostas has spoken about it and players have been very consistent in the request. All I'm really asking here is whether or not you support the idea, and what time you'd like to see taken up by the concept of challenging solo-content.

    - Would you like it to be a committed system that lasts for the expansion?
    - Would you prefer bits here and bits there, for the odd reward/achievement?

    As always, it's up to you.
    More than solo content, the game needs a way to give player a sense of progression.

    You can add solo content a la Mage Tower but then you strip away the "MMO" part or you can add something like " Completing all M+ 15 in time will have you a special xmog set ( like mop cm) "

    Where it is still a challenging content, that you do in group, but is still showed on you.


    So you still have the solo reward even if it is a group challenge

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Yep, I am glad I have my druid forms from there. I am a special snowflake now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I worked at the Druid Mage Tower for about 1.5 months until I got it. I spent a month of that time gearing.
    And I got my BM skin the day Tower Mage launched since it was no brainer.

    Problem was that some where basically LFR difficulty and others where so hard you could just wait to brute force them with 40extra itm lvl.


    The only way to make it relevant is to make the challenge scaling so you can't really cheese it and still need to Git Gud or get wasted.
    ---------

    I rather prefer Class Epic quest like vanilla ones that awards some nice, not BiS forever, weapon or stuff.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    And I got my BM skin the day Tower Mage launched since it was no brainer.

    Problem was that some where basically LFR difficulty and others where so hard you could just wait to brute force them with 40extra itm lvl.


    The only way to make it relevant is to make the challenge scaling so you can't really cheese it and still need to Git Gud or get wasted.
    ---------

    I rather prefer Class Epic quest like vanilla ones that awards some nice, not BiS forever, weapon or stuff.
    The tank ones were all pretty hard regardless of what anyone says, even after the nerfs.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    The tank ones were all pretty hard regardless of what anyone says, even after the nerfs.
    I did only Prot and Druid.

    Druid was a nightmare especially because I hadn't the chest.

    Pala I got the legs and stomped it.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    I did only Prot and Druid.

    Druid was a nightmare especially because I hadn't the chest.

    Pala I got the legs and stomped it.
    I almost had the Paladin one, got him to 3% twice with no leggos at all but then the pre-patch hit. I had the cloak and chest for the druid, got really lucky early on. Still took a while to master it.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

  13. #113
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    they tried with mage tower as failed horribly because nobody was doing those untill last 2 weeks of expansion .
    This comment is, I'm afraid, rubbish.

    Complete, and utter, rubbish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    Where it is still a challenging content, that you do in group, but is still showed on you.
    That's a fair enough preference, but it's essentially the opposite of what I'm asking about in this poll.

    This is the request about who wants pure, solo content that only needs a commitment from that player.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    This comment is, I'm afraid, rubbish.

    Complete, and utter, rubbish.


    That's a fair enough preference, but it's essentially the opposite of what I'm asking about in this poll.

    This is the request about who wants pure, solo content that only needs a commitment from that player.
    So as I said, Epic Quest like Class Quest from Vanilla?

  15. #115
    I think a good place to do something like this, would be a Class questline. You could continually be doing more difficult phases of the quest as you progressed, giving good gear or weapon for each phase completed.

  16. #116
    I enjoyed a lot Mage Towers. It was the first time in many years that I didnt notice how much time passed in WoW.

    It was like crazy trying to get the weapon.

    Also, it motivated me to try new specs and classes.

  17. #117
    The Lightbringer Littleraven's Avatar
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    Yes. There is literally no reason not to. I get that the game is an MMO and they want people to group for things but adding something for a solo challenge only give people more content. Just make everything tied to it cosmetic and call it a day. The Mage tower was such a good idea and the idea that they don't want that as a permanent fixture is baffling to me.

  18. #118
    Blizzard already did design challenging solo content. In Classic when if you pulled 2 mobs you might not survive it... pull 3 and you were dead. Some groups you just plain skipped because it was ighly likely you would die and corpse runs were very punitive timewise.

    They moved away from this little by little as the socialist concepts were being adopted. The game now makes the statement that everything in game SHOULD be achievable by everyone. It should not matter how skilled they are, it should not matter how much little play.

    If you can only play 2 hours a week.. fret not... you will get everything from the game... just like those that play 20 hours a week... in fact, due to a huge amount of RNG, you might even get more.

    If you are lower skilled, worry not, we have catchup mechanisms where you can get get the same iLevel items raiders got by simply clicking on squirrels and nuts for a world quest. This due to iLevel scaling we do with each patch.

    What they accomplished was to make the game no longer capable of sustaining any meaningful amount of playtime each week. Thta's why people leave game so quickly... you don';t play an MMORPG for a couple hours a week.

    An MMORPG should have so much to do that whatever hours you CAN play is not enough. You prioritize what you like the most and skip what you like the least.

    Now you do it all because you can... in an hour of playing.

  19. #119
    I see a ton of chat about the Mage Towers in this thread. They're something I particularly enjoyed and had a great deal of fun with. I don't know that I'd rank the legendary questline stuff in MoP to that specifically, but meh. Brawler's Guild is something I enjoy seeing, and while I do enjoy seeing a lot of people there, the queue system almost always has me looking to jump to a quieter realm so I can get more fights/attempts in.

    While the Mage Tower faced the whole "only up for a set period of time, every "x" time" ordeal, it was pretty much unlimited, provided you had the nethershards to retake. Outside of some old raid boss kills where you were so close to killing it, I have to say that getting the holy priest challenge (the last class/spec I needed for all of them completed) was among the highest that my nerves have ever been shot. I wasn't as comfortable with the holy priest as I was with the other healers, so it took me a fair bit to get it underway. I woke up with the servers going down in an hour that day, and I had only a few attempts left to achieve it. Otherwise, I'd be left with 35/36 and I knew it'd be a bit upsetting as a completionist in certain areas.

    Nevertheless, the first attempt went almost flawless until nerves tripped me up at the final phase where you dealt with the nightbane mechanic and poison floor mechanic on the boss. Second attempt I once again tripped near the finish line on the adds going into the boss, and ended up being completely overwhelmed. Third attempt was a wash on the first phase, and I had to stand up and shake the willies out. xD Fourth attempt, with only barely 20 minutes left until server shutdown. I was a complete wreck of nerves, last chance, last hope. When I topped everyone up and the boss was within the margin to be killed by the group, I went into Spirit form after dying to a leap right after the nightbane mechanic, once again topping them off, and watching them finish him off. Rezzing and running back to Dalaran as the clock ticked was like heartpounding and insane. I turned it on, got my screenshots while doing the little cinematic pose and logged off with 2 minutes to spare. Easily the highest amount of self-respect for an in-game achievement based on pure persistence I've ever had.

    I would definitely love for some form of those challenges again. Tank challenges were my absolute favorite. (I did an extra 2 warriors and 2 paladins for this out of curiosity of gear scaling since I was bummed you couldn't redo the challenge later after completing it.) I think Warcraft used to excel heavily in the "something for everyone" aspect. So I'm 100% behind more solo content. I wouldn't want it to come at the cost of group and raid content, but it's a lot of fun for the extra visual flair.

  20. #120
    Yes. Mage Tower got me to level every class and stay subbed to Legion.

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