Should Blizzard design challenging solo-content?

[micwini]

Ofc you are doing 100K dps, so you can kill stuff in 10 sec..

Also, a boss like Ahoo'ru was first a rank 7 boss, then move to special rank (i.e. AFTER rank 7), but is now Rank 3 or 4.. It's is still every bit as difficult as it always was, but come much much earlier this season..

STOP TROLLING...

I dont deal 100k dps. I had around 390 ilvl in my dps spec and most bosses just fell over. There is no trolling to be seen here. Im just saying how I experienced brawlers guild this expansion.

[MisterBigglez]

Of course, things like Mage Tower were great. Didn't matter if everyone and their mother was able to beat the bosses by the end of the expansion, being able to get it early and having people message you for tips was a good feeling. They said they would like to bring it back, but only if it made sense, which seems like a bit of an excuse not to do it much considering you can just make up some noname bosses and create a short story about it.

[FuxieDK]

I dont deal 100k dps. I had around 390 ilvl in my dps spec and most bosses just fell over. There is no trolling to be seen here. Im just saying how I experienced brawlers guild this expansion.

If you dont do 100k, then you cannot kill 1M+ bosses in 10 sec.

[Rozz]

Yeah sure. Why not?

Optional and more challenging content like mage towers would be welcome in my book. I feel there should always be an outlet to let players push themselves.

[Pua]

It's good to see that the vote to get more personal content is still utterly dominating, and it's interesting that a majority wants to see it developed as a proper content delivery.

[Lime]

Of course. The whole, "No solo content" mentality hurts the game more than anything else.

We already have a plethora of group content, so some challenging solo content could be nice for when I want to just kick back and and do something on my own time. Reward-wise, though, I'd say cosmetic only.

[Pua]

Of course. The whole, "No solo content" mentality hurts the game more than anything else.

We already have a plethora of group content, so some challenging solo content could be nice for when I want to just kick back and and do something on my own time. Reward-wise, though, I'd say cosmetic only.

I don't think anyone is "no solo content", I think they're more just "there's already enough" as far as they're concerned.

Which, while I disagree, I get; it's a fair enough stance given that solo content already exists, it's just very simple and guaranteed to see success within. My other comment about solo participation in group content is another aspect that people are generally cool with.

[Lime]

I don't think anyone is "no solo content"

Plenty of people are. The rationale is "it's an MMO, you should always be playing with other people".

[Pua]

Plenty of people are. The rationale is "it's an MMO, you should always be playing with other people".

Yeah, that's fair enough, but I've never seen a single argument that it should be applied to basic questing or levelling.

Even the one you provide is something I barely recall seeing, though I've no doubt it's been said.

[Alkizon]

Plenty of people are. The rationale is "it's an MMO, you should always be playing with other people".

Well, discussion here is clearly not about “balancing” this content (I mean, that it's not about that game design should “revolve” around this process), just about its availability. But! how it will turn out from initial MMORPG requirements' point of view (since it have explicit exclusive priority), absolutely shouldn't worry neither devs, nor "beggars in need".

Anyway, this is how I see the whole topic.

[Saorix]

I think things like the Mage Tower work relatively well when they're an occasional occurrence. It does fit a similar niche to the Brawler's guild but I feel the big difference is that the Mage Tower encounters weren't constrained by the short enrage timer aspect that ends up making a fair number of the Brawler's guild encounters feel like filler. Though I personally like when solo encounters are around the 6-8 minute mark. I do personally wish Blizzard would allow the replay of completed Mage Tower challenges with set level scaling and locked item level conditions.

As long as they allow players to outgear, or outscale it through other means of power creep it'll be widely accessible to everyone who actually wants to try it which is perfectly fine, and there will always be some sort of reward because a designed-to-be-completed solo challenge with no incentive would not be very popular with the majority of people who might have eventually tried it if it did have something that might even interest them slightly.

Blizzard hasn't really done very many exclusively solo challenges but the times that they have the rewards have always been cosmetic/aesthetic though the only exclusively solo challenges I can think of are Green Fire, Proving Grounds: Endless/Wrong Role and the Mage Tower, but most of the well remembered "solo challenges" have actually had power tied to them though they also required you to do at least some form of group content/raiding so that is probably the line between cosmetic and power. Mainly Rhok/Lhok'delar, Anathema/Benediction come to mind as the best examples I can think of and maybe parts of Dragonwrath or Fangs of the Father though calling those last two well remembered or a challenge might be a stretch.

[Trumpcat]

Challenging solo content with some awards to show off, like the Mage Tower had unique artifact appearances.

Titles, unique weapon models, but not mounts and pets.

A bit every expansion as a prestige achievement of skill and mastery of your class.

Although I should point the Mage Tower challenge difficulty varied vastly between classes and specs. Some class toolkits made it much easier to complete the same challenge compared to another class.

[Firedemon]

Brawl'gar arena is pretty challenging, when you get up in ranks.

The original bosses of MoP were challenging. Current ones are a joke.

But yes, some challenges like Mage Tower and Brawler's are nice.

[kamuimac]

I'm relating to my post here, and the thread that it was posted in.

It's widely understood that solo players can already participate in everything. They can simply queue for dungeons, raids, islands, scenarios and PvP battlegrounds without any blockage, and they can technically complete the entirety of the endgame content by doing so. It requires no effort to build or be part of a community, and the current World Quest system with RNG-related loot that continues to rise means that achievements are equally solo.

Whether or not you support this is up to yourself.

My question is whether or not you believe that challenging solo content should be developed as a proper content deliverer.

It's obviously debatable, but the first recollection I have of this was in Mists of Pandaria. In order to queue yourself within random five-man dungeons, players needed to complete the computer-group scenario to the standard of Silver. While this wasn't challenging to experienced players who complained a great deal about the necessity they believed a waste of time, it was challenging to new players and the expansion to Gold, at the best, delivered character titles that are extremely rare in my experience.

Also in Mists, there was the legendary quest that was conducted by specs. Those quests were also very challenging, perhaps frustratingly depending on your class, but it was (please correct me if my memory is wrong) hooked into raiding where the linked quests weren't completed by LFR. To an extent, however, that's not important, because it's the concept of challenging solo-content that we're looking at.

What those quests mean, more than anything, is that the popular Mage Tower that happened in Legion had actually already been done before. The quests where aimed at specs rather than classes, with the key difference being that players could participate in the Mage Tower purely as solo players; there was no need to do raiding in order to participate.

Perhaps this contributes to the lack of general commentary about the Mists legendary quest in comparison to the Mage Tower?

In any event, the point is to simply ask us to chuck votes at it given that Ion Hazzikostas has spoken about it and players have been very consistent in the request. All I'm really asking here is whether or not you support the idea, and what time you'd like to see taken up by the concept of challenging solo-content.

- Would you like it to be a committed system that lasts for the expansion?
- Would you prefer bits here and bits there, for the odd reward/achievement?

As always, it's up to you.

nope

they tried with mage tower as failed horribly because nobody was doing those untill last 2 weeks of expansion .

besides 1% of nolifers nobody is looking for chalenging content in WoW

[Daikoku]

nope

they tried with mage tower as failed horribly because nobody was doing those untill last 2 weeks of expansion .

besides 1% of nolifers nobody is looking for chalenging content in WoW

99% of players are just lazy incompetent that even irl need to get boosted towards goals

I mean just release ez pet dungeon every month and new mounts, make retard-proof content and classes and people will pay and stay subbed.
Why wasting time doing challenging solo content?

[Unholyground]

Mage Towers were great. That is all I’m going to say on this topic

Yep, I am glad I have my druid forms from there. I am a special snowflake now.

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nope

they tried with mage tower as failed horribly because nobody was doing those untill last 2 weeks of expansion .

besides 1% of nolifers nobody is looking for chalenging content in WoW

I worked at the Druid Mage Tower for about 1.5 months until I got it. I spent a month of that time gearing.

[Daikoku]

I'm relating to my post here, and the thread that it was posted in.

It's widely understood that solo players can already participate in everything. They can simply queue for dungeons, raids, islands, scenarios and PvP battlegrounds without any blockage, and they can technically complete the entirety of the endgame content by doing so. It requires no effort to build or be part of a community, and the current World Quest system with RNG-related loot that continues to rise means that achievements are equally solo.

Whether or not you support this is up to yourself.

My question is whether or not you believe that challenging solo content should be developed as a proper content deliverer.

It's obviously debatable, but the first recollection I have of this was in Mists of Pandaria. In order to queue yourself within random five-man dungeons, players needed to complete the computer-group scenario to the standard of Silver. While this wasn't challenging to experienced players who complained a great deal about the necessity they believed a waste of time, it was challenging to new players and the expansion to Gold, at the best, delivered character titles that are extremely rare in my experience.

Also in Mists, there was the legendary quest that was conducted by specs. Those quests were also very challenging, perhaps frustratingly depending on your class, but it was (please correct me if my memory is wrong) hooked into raiding where the linked quests weren't completed by LFR. To an extent, however, that's not important, because it's the concept of challenging solo-content that we're looking at.

What those quests mean, more than anything, is that the popular Mage Tower that happened in Legion had actually already been done before. The quests where aimed at specs rather than classes, with the key difference being that players could participate in the Mage Tower purely as solo players; there was no need to do raiding in order to participate.

Perhaps this contributes to the lack of general commentary about the Mists legendary quest in comparison to the Mage Tower?

In any event, the point is to simply ask us to chuck votes at it given that Ion Hazzikostas has spoken about it and players have been very consistent in the request. All I'm really asking here is whether or not you support the idea, and what time you'd like to see taken up by the concept of challenging solo-content.

- Would you like it to be a committed system that lasts for the expansion?
- Would you prefer bits here and bits there, for the odd reward/achievement?

As always, it's up to you.

More than solo content, the game needs a way to give player a sense of progression.

You can add solo content a la Mage Tower but then you strip away the "MMO" part or you can add something like " Completing all M+ 15 in time will have you a special xmog set ( like mop cm) "

Where it is still a challenging content, that you do in group, but is still showed on you.


So you still have the solo reward even if it is a group challenge

[Daikoku]

Yep, I am glad I have my druid forms from there. I am a special snowflake now.

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I worked at the Druid Mage Tower for about 1.5 months until I got it. I spent a month of that time gearing.

And I got my BM skin the day Tower Mage launched since it was no brainer.

Problem was that some where basically LFR difficulty and others where so hard you could just wait to brute force them with 40extra itm lvl.


The only way to make it relevant is to make the challenge scaling so you can't really cheese it and still need to Git Gud or get wasted.
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I rather prefer Class Epic quest like vanilla ones that awards some nice, not BiS forever, weapon or stuff.

[Unholyground]

And I got my BM skin the day Tower Mage launched since it was no brainer.

Problem was that some where basically LFR difficulty and others where so hard you could just wait to brute force them with 40extra itm lvl.


The only way to make it relevant is to make the challenge scaling so you can't really cheese it and still need to Git Gud or get wasted.
---------

I rather prefer Class Epic quest like vanilla ones that awards some nice, not BiS forever, weapon or stuff.

The tank ones were all pretty hard regardless of what anyone says, even after the nerfs.

[Daikoku]

The tank ones were all pretty hard regardless of what anyone says, even after the nerfs.

I did only Prot and Druid.

Druid was a nightmare especially because I hadn't the chest.

Pala I got the legs and stomped it.