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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    No, it isn't mental gymnastics. Companies operate within the law and that's what matters.

    If a company pays 0 tax because it isn't obligated to pay any tax? That's legal. You can complain that that's wrong all you want, but singling out any individual company isn't fair because it's a systemic issue that needs to be addressed.

    And honestly? If they did ax a lot of their good talent? That's up to them. Skilled individuals will always find a place to work at.
    You're missing the point.

    Legal or not, Is that the type of behavior you want to see game companies practice? Systemic problem or not, you're still feeding into ActivisionBlizzard specifically by continuing to give them money despite price increases; dispite the disregard they've shown to their fans. And by doing so your approval of their practices is implicit.

    Legal doesn't mean ethical nor does it mean what you'd like to see in the gaming industry. I feel bad for anyone who uses a multi-million dollar corporation's idea of "legal" as their compas.
    In case it wasn't clear, I'm a fan of what Blizzard COULD be, not the ruins of what it is now.

  2. #222
    I'm really sacred, because of the statues.

    They look an awfully lot like Clash of Clans art style. I can already see Blizzard announcing a Clash of Clans ripoff with a Warcraft Theme, just like Diablo Immortal is a ripoff of a mobile ripoff of Diablo...

    It's really sad because this is the first year i could go on Blizzcon - I have the vacations days and the money for the plane and whole trip - but i'm sacred as hell that we'll have only mobiles games and a WoW expansion to show off. and that is not near enough for me to justify the 2.5K i'd be spending to go to Blizzcon from France.

  3. #223
    I am a wizzard from future, here to give you a hint whats comming up in November!

    Diablo Immortal DLC (oh you poor bastards, i know you think there is Diablo 4 project, haha, poor souls)

    WoW expansion in form of reskinned BFA with different name, they listened to your complaints about BfA and care about you, changed almost nothing but added new mount
    BIG ANNOUNCMENT WoW mobile game
    New info on WoW vanilla, to be released with next xpac, technology is just not there yet

    Overwatch new champion

    Heartstone, 9040953 expansion announced

    Starcraft 2 ..... and many more!



    Hoping for completly new game that we all wait for so long? Nope that aint profitable as mobile games and milking current titles.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    You're missing the point.

    Legal or not, Is that the type of behavior you want to see game companies practice? Systemic problem or not, you're still feeding into ActivisionBlizzard specifically by continuing to give them money despite price increases; dispite the disregard they've shown to their fans. And by doing so your approval of their practices is implicit.

    Legal doesn't mean ethical nor does it mean what you'd like to see in the gaming industry. I feel bad for anyone who uses a multi-million dollar corporation's idea of "legal" as their compas.
    I can't fault a company for legal behavior. I fault the system. Blaming one company instead of all the companies partaking in the problem doesn't help in my opinion but to each their own.

    I honestly don't expect any company to act ethically. Especially when most companies are chasing short term gains. I expect all companies to act legally (pay their legally required taxes, etc) but I don't think ethics are ever a factor anymore.

    I also didn't say I was going to Blizzcon, but honestly, raising the ticket prices from 200 to 230 is one of the least costs of actually going to Blizzcon. It's so infinitesimal it's hardly worth complaining about. The fluctuation of hotel, travel, and dining prices are usually much, much more dramatic than a 15% increase.

    In addition, I'd argue that since the tickets always sell out that the tickets are underpriced, but if it was up to me, I'd do some kind of auction for the tickets. Something like a sealed bid second price auction, truth be told.
    Last edited by SteveZaer; 2019-04-29 at 08:19 AM.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I can't fault a company for legal behavior.
    Yes, you absolutely can. WTF!

    As I said, you're completely missing the point, and I think you're being intellectually dishonest about the entire subject. You keep trying to press the issue of "You must hold all companies responsible" as though that's a barrier or excuse for holding one company responsible.

    It's like letting a murderer go free because other people also committed murder. That doesn't make the one murder we're talking about now acceptable. Fuck sake, how do you not understand this? Wait, I'll answer that for you. I think you DO understand it, but don't want to admit the point, so you keep trying to dodge it with this collective responsibility.

    So let me make it clear. YES, the problem is systematic. But we're talking specifically about ActivisionBlizzard. So stop trying to change the subject.

    And that was "you" in the general sense in the post you quoted, not the specific like in this post.
    In case it wasn't clear, I'm a fan of what Blizzard COULD be, not the ruins of what it is now.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Yes, you absolutely can. WTF!

    As I said, you're completely missing the point, and I think you're being intellectually dishonest about the entire subject. You keep trying to press the issue of "You must hold all companies responsible" as though that's a barrier or excuse for holding one company responsible.

    It's like letting a murderer go free because other people also committed murder. That doesn't make the one murder we're talking about now acceptable. Fuck sake, how do you not understand this? Wait, I'll answer that for you. I think you DO understand it, but don't want to admit the point, so you keep trying to dodge it with this collective responsibility.

    So let me make it clear. YES, the problem is systematic. But we're talking specifically about ActivisionBlizzard. So stop trying to change the subject.

    And that was "you" in the general sense in the post you quoted, not the specific like in this post.
    Since when was murder ever legal?

    And no, you can't. Because the moment you say to company X you can't do this because of ethics, it puts them at a competitive disadvantage compared to every other company.

    Again, we should focus our energy on why is any company allowed to do this not why is ActiBlizz doing this.

    Also, no one is ethically required to pay taxes. You're required to pay the bare minimum tax. That's what everyone should pay. I agree that the tax minimization strategy that a lot of large companies should be closed but that's no reason to be upset at ActiBlizz for playing the same game as everyone else.

    You should probably get more involved with ITEP and Patriotic Millionaires to stop these practices. Here's an example of why we have to address it at the legal level. Granted, this is for a higher minimum wage, but the principle remains the same: https://patrioticmillionaires.org/20...ess-practices/

    Here's a company that studies a lot of the common tax loopholes: https://itep.org/category/corporate-taxes/
    Last edited by SteveZaer; 2019-04-29 at 07:38 PM.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Since when was murder ever legal?

    And no, you can't. Because the moment you say to company X you can't do this because of ethics, it puts them at a competitive disadvantage compared to every other company.

    Again, we should focus our energy on why is any company allowed to do this not why is ActiBlizz doing this.

    Also, no one is ethically required to pay taxes. You're required to pay the bare minimum tax. That's what everyone should pay. I agree that the tax minimization strategy that a lot of large companies should be closed but that's no reason to be upset at ActiBlizz for playing the same game as everyone else.

    You should probably get more involved with ITEP and Patriotic Millionaires to stop these practices. Here's an example of why we have to address it at the legal level. Granted, this is for a higher minimum wage, but the principle remains the same: https://patrioticmillionaires.org/20...ess-practices/

    Here's a company that studies a lot of the common tax loopholes: https://itep.org/category/corporate-taxes/
    Do you just not understand the concept of scope?
    In case it wasn't clear, I'm a fan of what Blizzard COULD be, not the ruins of what it is now.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Do you just not understand the concept of scope?
    I just disagree with your stance. Taxes aren't a moral issue so ethics shouldn't apply.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I just disagree with your stance. Taxes aren't a moral issue so ethics shouldn't apply.
    No, you're doing exactly what I accused you of earlier: Mental gymnastics. Every time I bring up the specific case of Blizzard's actions you redirect or deflect or otherwise avoid talking about it because you know you'd have to admit that the way Blizzard is acting is shitty. Not just tax evasion, but everything else they're doing.

    Whatever, we're done. I'm sick of trying to argue with people who are either too deeply defeated to even try. Attitudes like the one you've expressed in this thread are exactly why game companies keep doing this shit.
    In case it wasn't clear, I'm a fan of what Blizzard COULD be, not the ruins of what it is now.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    No, you're doing exactly what I accused you of earlier: Mental gymnastics. Every time I bring up the specific case of Blizzard's actions you redirect or deflect or otherwise avoid talking about it because you know you'd have to admit that the way Blizzard is acting is shitty. Not just tax evasion, but everything else they're doing.

    Whatever, we're done. I'm sick of trying to argue with people who are either too deeply defeated to even try. Attitudes like the one you've expressed in this thread are exactly why game companies keep doing this shit.
    For the fourth time, I don't believe the tax evasion policy is that type of behavior. I believe it's a systemic problem and needs to be addressed systematically.

    My entire point is not that you need to focus on addressing what ActiBlizz does or what EA does or whatever. You have to work with organizations like ITEP to fix the tax law specifically.

    I don't feel like the taxation issue is bad or good behavior because I don't believe the tax legislation allows for bad or good behavior. I don't know how else I can state this.

    All that being said, I do believe there is a way to fix it and I do believe it should be fixed (but not under the guise of trying to force companies to behave more ethically since ethics don't exist with tax legislation) by writing effective tax legislation.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by FluFF View Post
    Well YouTube is still filled with Blizzard shills ( T&E, Hazel, etc ) and for a decent streamer on Twitch 230 USD is pocket cash so yeah tickets will sell out as usual.
    After the recent events at Blizzard the past year and quality ( or lack of ) in their games + last Blizzcon and it's facepalm moments + the price hike I think the average Joe will be less drawn in to go then let's say 7 years ago.
    Do you define a shill as anyone who still enjoys the game and current systems, even if some people don't like them? I don't know if you can throw everyone into that category just because you don't enjoy the game or how its being developed anymore.

  12. #232
    Bloody heck.....THOSE PRICES! Do people actually pay up to $1000? How is the dinner? I honestly hope it is Michelin star quality! Though even I have paid SOOO MUCH less at Michelin Star Quality Restaurant! Approx £200-£300 for a full course dinner and dessert.

  13. #233
    Curious how things are gonna go with the requirement of the phone app in order to get in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7YGrenehmQ Apparently tons of spyware on that app. Why couldn't they use the authenticator instead? It's linked to the wow accounts, but the spyware seems questionable. Wondering if theres gonna be any ticket cancellations .

  14. #234
    Lego Moderator GothamCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorri View Post
    With prices like that, and the big let down with Diablo Immortals from last year, I expect a lot fewer people to attend this year.
    Still sold out within seconds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanidor View Post
    Bloody heck.....THOSE PRICES! Do people actually pay up to $1000? How is the dinner? I honestly hope it is Michelin star quality! Though even I have paid SOOO MUCH less at Michelin Star Quality Restaurant! Approx £200-£300 for a full course dinner and dessert.
    It's nothing to do with the dinner, it's all the other benefits. Plus it is a charity dinner which helps a children's hospital.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanidor View Post
    Bloody heck.....THOSE PRICES! Do people actually pay up to $1000? How is the dinner? I honestly hope it is Michelin star quality! Though even I have paid SOOO MUCH less at Michelin Star Quality Restaurant! Approx £200-£300 for a full course dinner and dessert.
    It's nothing to do with the dinner, it's all the other benefits. Plus it is a charity dinner which helps a children's hospital.
    "Okay, Robin. Together, we're gonna punch these guys so hard, words describing the impact are gonna spontaneously materialize out of thin air."
    - Lego Batman

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Still sold out within seconds.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's nothing to do with the dinner, it's all the other benefits. Plus it is a charity dinner which helps a children's hospital.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's nothing to do with the dinner, it's all the other benefits. Plus it is a charity dinner which helps a children's hospital.
    Ooh thanks for the info! That is really sweet they are adding a charity event too! Ok, big respect to them for doing that.
    I would love to go to one of the conventions one day.

  16. #236
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Blizzard has the gall to raise prices after the failure of last Blizzcon? Ho'boy.

  17. #237
    Lego Moderator GothamCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanidor View Post
    Ooh thanks for the info! That is really sweet they are adding a charity event too! Ok, big respect to them for doing that.
    I would love to go to one of the conventions one day.
    They've done the charity dinner every year. I went once. I would guesstimate it makes around $50-100k? Nothing crazy but still nice.
    "Okay, Robin. Together, we're gonna punch these guys so hard, words describing the impact are gonna spontaneously materialize out of thin air."
    - Lego Batman

  18. #238
    Meanwhile... Tickets are sold out.

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