Which races have suffered the most from horde races?

[micwini]

Wanted to vote pandaren to meme, but the option isn't there

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ner'zhuls ritual wouldn't have destroyed Draenor, if the Alliance didn't invade it and interrupted the ritual last minute. SO an entire planet gone for alliance self absorbing rightoussnes.

The alliance would have never have been on Draenor if not for the orcs so if your going to link it back it’s still the orca fault.

[J012D4N]

Humans:
- Stormwind Kingdom was routed in their 1st war by orcs,
- Undead annihilated Lordaeron kingdom in 3rd war
- Horde destroyed Kingdom of Theramore

Worgen:
- Undead and Forsaken destroyed Gilneas

Draenei:
- Orcs genocide on route to invading Azeroth

Night Elves
- Invasion during Cata by Garrosh horde
- Genocide by Forsaken led horde

High Elves:
- Horde invasion in 2nd war
- Slaughtered by Undead in 3rd war

OP .... It'd be Humans but understand that the Human Kingdoms have probably suffered from their own race by about as much as the Horde races.
Also .... Forsaken =/= Scourge
- Silvermoon was devastated by Arthas (a human) & the Scourge (non-sentient, not the Forsaken).
- For Lordaeron, see above. Destroyed by one of their own & non-Forsaken undead.

[Leodric]

OP .... It'd be Humans but understand that the Human Kingdoms have probably suffered from their own race by about as much as the Horde races.
Also .... Forsaken =/= Scourge
- Silvermoon was devastated by Arthas (a human) & the Scourge (non-sentient, not the Forsaken).
- For Lordaeron, see above. Destroyed by one of their own & non-Forsaken undead.

If you want to go that road by blaming the Alliance on everything Arthas did, then nearly each atrocity in WoW is connected to either Horde or Alliance. You can hardly call Arthas part of the Alliance at that point, since he and the Scourge devastated Lordaeron as well.

As far as I understand OP, it's more about the collective of a race attacking another race, such as the invasions and so on. If the Humans were on the side of Arthas while he wrecked everything, then yes you could blame it on the Humans, but this wasn't the case. Same thing you can't blame Gul'dan on the current Horde, only because he is an Orc.

[ravenmoon]

This makes me wonder, what have the Horde lost to the Alliance? I can't really think of anything. Undercity was more like a reconquest. Not much of a loss to be honest.

I think Draenei have suffered the most. The orcs made a road out all their dead for crying out loud.

I agree with you. My pick would be Draenei, and thehorde doesnt lose stuff to the alliance, largely only the stuff that was taken from them.

The Alliamce has failed to take or destroy any horde city, meanwhile the horde took/destroyed Stormwind, Lordaerom, SilvermoonTheramaore, Darnassus.

But we still love the horde , right ?

- - - Updated - - -

OP .... It'd be Humans but understand that the Human Kingdoms have probably suffered from their own race by about as much as the Horde races.
Also .... Forsaken =/= Scourge
- Silvermoon was devastated by Arthas (a human) & the Scourge (non-sentient, not the Forsaken).
- For Lordaeron, see above. Destroyed by one of their own & non-Forsaken undead.

But people keep ignoring the fact that Arthas was commanded by Ner'zhul, an orc in a continuation of the original Orc mission to conquer Azeroth, this is why I included it, vut bear in mind I did point out the mitigating circumstances.

Is it really the horde if they're been manipulated?

[Maxilian]

The Alliamce has failed to take or destroy any horde city, meanwhile the horde took/destroyed Stormwind, Lordaerom, SilvermoonTheramaore, Darnassus.

But we still love the horde , right ?

Well, in the end, Lordaeron was also lost by the Horde and Silvermoon was not taken from the Alliance (like invasion or by force, they just joined the Horde), Lordaeron was not taken from the Alliance by the Horde not destroyed by them, it was third party, and when it became an independant nation, it joined the Horde.

Everything else is on point (though the Stormwind thing could be debated, as it was not the same horde, but whatever)

The Alliance have taken down a lot of Horde stuff but mostly Old Horde stuff (Like Zulaman), so in general, is hard to make this comparison.

Note: Also you missed Gilneas

[eurojust]

Still led by a HUMAN in the invasion.

Oh yea, i remember when the undeads yelled "FOR NER'ZHUL", "MY LIFE FOR NER'ZHUL", what a great human leader this Ner'zhul.

[Powerogue]

Taran Tzu: MY PEOPLE MORE THAN ANY OTHER.

Night elves: You sure about that?

Taran Tzu: You know what, maybe we can call it a tie.

[eurojust]

Is it really the horde if they're been manipulated?

Ner'zhul wasn't the puppet of the Legion. He was already playing his own game.

[Grazrug]

Oh yea, i remember when the undeads yelled "FOR NER'ZHUL", "MY LIFE FOR NER'ZHUL", what a great human leader this Ner'zhul.

Does this guy look like an Orc to you? https://66.media.tumblr.com/60d41837...wb5do1_400.jpg

or this one?
https://2static1.fjcdn.com/comments/...2bd6cd2baf.jpg

[Varodoc]

Does this guy look like an Orc to you? https://66.media.tumblr.com/60d41837...wb5do1_400.jpg

or this one?
https://2static1.fjcdn.com/comments/...2bd6cd2baf.jpg

What kind of logic is this? Just because he lost his body doesn't mean that his spirit suddenly race changed.

[namecraft]

those guys who take a boat to travel to ironforge. oh yes, they suffered...

[Grythletubs]

The amount of victim blaming in this thread is hilarious

[omeomorfismo]

clearly the whole world.
if only zandalari and the other trolls could exterminate the night elves way back, they couldnt summon the BL in first instance...

[Mehrunes]

Wanted to vote pandaren to meme, but the option isn't there

What do you mean by "meme"?

[Jastall]

interesting word choice. Cause the answer is none since the only races the alliance targeted that wound up in the horde survived.

Now if you mean decimated, attacked, nearly wiped out, etc (as opposed to "utterly wiped out"):

Humans have gravely threatened and made a goal of destroying Orcs, Goblins, Blood Elves, and Dark Spear Trolls... to not even include the sideline subplot of forsaken presumed to be scourge prior to establishing the undercity and bringing it into the horde.

So... yeah. Humans were right bastards to people they didn't agree with easily.

- - - Updated - - -



citation needed.

The Alliance at large did not aim to destroy the Orcs (they were in fact almost unreasonably lenient in allowing the infighting about the internment camps to make the Alliance collapse in turn instead of getting rid of what they could only see as genocidal monsters), Daelin was, Blood Elves was literally just Garithos and his forces, and Trolls was some rando Kul Tirans we've never heard about since. As a body the humans can only be maybe held responsible for trying to kill the (playable) Goblins, and even then I doubt they knew the entire Bilgewater Cartel was on that one ship and it's not like mankind ever pursued war on the goblins as any kind of objective considering most of them are neutral and one is an SI:7 spy.

As for the Wrathgate, ask Afriasabi.

[mickybrighteyes]

The Alliance at large did not aim to destroy the Orcs (they were in fact almost unreasonably lenient in allowing the infighting about the internment camps to make the Alliance collapse in turn instead of getting rid of what they could only see as genocidal monsters),

They weren't just keeping them in camps..

Daelin was,

a grand admiral of the alliance's navy acting in official capacity as such.

Blood Elves was literally just Garithos and his forces,

yes, just the Grand Marshall of the Alliance of Lordaeron and his forces and their allies (aka the alliance of lordaeron)... do remember Dalaran was party to these actions as well.

and Trolls was some rando Kul Tirans we've never heard about since.

some rando Kul Tirans? It was Grand Admiral Daelin Proudmoore and the troops he had under his call when he took it upon himself to go purge the orcish threat for the sake of the Alliance.

As a body the humans can only be maybe held responsible for trying to kill the (playable) Goblins, and even then I doubt they knew the entire Bilgewater Cartel was on that one ship and it's not like mankind ever pursued war on the goblins as any kind of objective considering most of them are neutral and one is an SI:7 spy.

You seem to argue that entities allied with or embodying the Alliance and what it stands for or fighting for the alliance are not the alliance at all. The Kul tirans you argue were random were still a main part of the Alliance until after the events concerning Daelin's death at the hands of Rexxar and Vol'jin. Garithos was still the leader of what was left of the Lordaeron forces at the close of the period where the Alliance was still the "Alliance of Lordaeron" (aka Alliance of Seven Kingdoms).

As for the Wrathgate, ask Afriasabi.

I'd still like a canon source over a writers thoughts that were never put into a written lore.

[Jastall]

They weren't just keeping them in camps..

a grand admiral of the alliance's navy acting in official capacity as such.

yes, just the Grand Marshall of the Alliance of Lordaeron and his forces and their allies (aka the alliance of lordaeron)... do remember Dalaran was party to these actions as well.

some rando Kul Tirans? It was Grand Admiral Daelin Proudmoore and the troops he had under his call when he took it upon himself to go purge the orcish threat for the sake of the Alliance.

You seem to argue that entities allied with or embodying the Alliance and what it stands for or fighting for the alliance are not the alliance at all. The Kul tirans you argue were random were still a main part of the Alliance until after the events concerning Daelin's death at the hands of Rexxar and Vol'jin. Garithos was still the leader of what was left of the Lordaeron forces at the close of the period where the Alliance was still the "Alliance of Lordaeron" (aka Alliance of Seven Kingdoms).






I'd still like a canon source over a writers thoughts that were never put into a written lore.

Erm, Kul Tiras left the Alliance after Dealin's campaigns precisely because the rest of the members did not endorse his actions, while Gilneas left because they didn't want to fund the camps. What Kul Tiras did was on their own ass (and I'd agree that the Horde has more reasons to hate the Kul Tirans than any other group in the Alliance). The entire point of the Alliance story in BFA is getting KT back in.

With that out of the way, Garithos was isolated, the exact level of support and political recognition he received is unknown apart from a Dwarven brigade who thought he was a racist douchenozzle as well. At that point the Alliance of Lordaeron had all but disintegrated with all its constituent kingdoms isolated or crumbled; that said, the BEs are right to carry a grudge regardless, but it remains the actions of a particular group, while many of the Horde's atrocities were carried out by the big boss themselves.

[mickybrighteyes]

Erm, Kul Tiras left the Alliance after Dealin's campaigns precisely because the rest of the members did not endorse his actions,

they left cause of how little the alliance seemed to care about his death. Note that the alliance actually would have agreed with his actions, but the timing was terrible as other issues ranked more important than a few ships slipping off into the unknown. Fact remains that he was still Alliance when performing his deeds.

Garithos was isolated, the exact level of support and political recognition he received is unknown apart from a Dwarven brigade who thought he was a racist douchenozzle as well.

He only had the ruler of an allied nation locked up in another nation's jail and not even secretly at that. So he HAD some support and recognition outside his immediate forces and a dwarven brigade.

[Rozz]

Overall the Draenei, but second I'd say the Night Elves.

But if we're going to be brutally honest, Orcs have never hurt anyone as much as orcs. Blew up their own planet and ruined their own race. Yikes. They have a destructive record worse than the Forsaken.