1. #1

    Unholy pet dmg ...

    Just a quick question: how much of Unholy dps his pet makes up? 40% More? Less? I would like to give Unholy a try (i am a big fan of "range"and magic kind of melee playstyle), but i dislike pets, so i hope that the dps part of our ghoul is not above 20% of Unholy dps. I was a bit shocked when i read on icy veins Unholy pvp guide that majority of Unholy dmg comes from thier pet! I hope this is just the case in PvP, not in pve as well? While some other guides say that pet's dmg is just a small part of Unhuly dmg. I am so confused now

    Edit: also how's Unholy survivability (and their ghoul survivability) compared to Frost DK survivability?
    Sorry for English ...
    Last edited by Animron; 2019-04-27 at 07:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Ghoul is top % of dps for unholy.
    UH survivability is probably the strongest of all melee if you choose the talents and pvp talents for it.

  3. #3
    Thx. So Ghoul is more like a BM Hunter's pet in terms of dmg? Not sure if i can eat that ... I would rather see Ghoul more like a MM Hunter's pet.
    Why Unholy Mastery buffs shadow dmg then, if all you need to take care about is pet's dmg?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Animron View Post
    Thx. So Ghoul is more like a BM Hunter's pet in terms of dmg? Not sure if i can eat that ... I would rather see Ghoul more like a MM Hunter's pet.
    Why Unholy Mastery buffs shadow dmg then, if all you need to take care about is pet's dmg?
    Transformed Pet does Shadow damage in AOE

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk msdos's Avatar
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    Pet being half the damage doesn't matter mechanically because basically the other half is your melee white swings. You aren't comparable to BM or MM at all, Survival might be a diff story though.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Pet being half the damage doesn't matter mechanically because basically the other half is your melee white swings. You aren't comparable to BM or MM at all, Survival might be a diff story though.
    Hmm, if pet being half the dmg and the other half is Unholy autoatacks, where in this story are my special abilities? Sorry, but i really don't understand this ... 50% pet dmg + 50% melee white swings = 100% total dmg. There must be something wrong with your math or my understanding.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Animron View Post
    Hmm, if pet being half the dmg and the other half is Unholy autoatacks, where in this story are my special abilities? Sorry, but i really don't understand this ... 50% pet dmg + 50% melee white swings = 100% total dmg. There must be something wrong with your math or my understanding.
    unholy is about buffing your pet to do the most damage, you will do some damage yourself but its mainly to get resources to buff your pet, more like 15-20% main pet dmg, and 10-15% for a few other skills and then the rest.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-28 at 08:25 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Animron View Post
    Hmm, if pet being half the dmg and the other half is Unholy autoatacks, where in this story are my special abilities? Sorry, but i really don't understand this ... 50% pet dmg + 50% melee white swings = 100% total dmg. There must be something wrong with your math or my understanding.
    Based on some cursory glances at Unholy on warcraft logs, your biggest contributor for damage is your pet, but for most guys that's like 16-20% of their damage. The shorter the fight the more of your damage is going to be pet based because of Army of the Dead. On a 5-6 minute fight your permanent pet should be around there, with Virulent Plague and white hits being your next biggest contributors. Then Death Coil and Scourge Strike/Wounds/etc. It isn't a 50/50 pets/white hit thing, it's just that the active part of Unholy isn't that consequential.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Animron View Post
    Hmm, if pet being half the dmg and the other half is Unholy autoatacks, where in this story are my special abilities? Sorry, but i really don't understand this ... 50% pet dmg + 50% melee white swings = 100% total dmg. There must be something wrong with your math or my understanding.
    A typical 1 ST boss looks like this with 3x Festermight / 3x Magus (caster ghuls) azerite traits:

    18% Army of the Dead
    14% Virulent Plague
    14% Ghul
    10% Magus of the Dead (Azerite)
    12% Autoattack

    = 68% autoattack and WHITE DAMAGE

    Its pretty similar to BM hunters, just our major cooldown (Army of the Dead) got 8min CD and does not work with cleave szenarios and since a huge portion of the damage is autoattack / melee based and our pets dont have hunter pet SNAP-treatment and the DK does not have "autoshot" we lose a lot of damage done as soon as our pets and the character does not have 100% uptime in melee range.

    The "abilitys" are undertuned so there is no pooling->burst possibilitys to make up for uptime loss and there are no good or even mediocre azerite traits for our abilitys. Thats why Festermight (just do basic rotation and gain mainstat) and Magus (more ghuls/white damage) is used, since there are no other options available.
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  10. #10
    pet damage is pretty nuts rn, army single target burst is wild

  11. #11
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animron View Post
    Hmm, if pet being half the dmg and the other half is Unholy autoatacks, where in this story are my special abilities? Sorry, but i really don't understand this ... 50% pet dmg + 50% melee white swings = 100% total dmg. There must be something wrong with your math or my understanding.
    Unholy Death Knights are basically necromancer who summon undead to fight for them.
    You buff them to generate more damage and your alone damage is not too high, but good enough to complement.

    It is still nice to play it because your attacks all add something to the fight, so you basically deal most damage through your ghouls, but you set control over the fight with yours.

    If you want a damage truck, UH is not the way. But if you want heavy damage over time and pure control with nice self healing, well, none beats UH here, maybe locks come close?

  12. #12
    In PvP, Magus of the Dead makes up a large percentage of my damage - as does my regular permanent pet, Abomination, etc...

    Your job as Unholy is to direct and enable your pets, CC and deny healing to your target, and survive. UHDK is never about a DPS race, rather a systematic grinding down of your opponent as you survive their onslaught.

    By speccing into abomination and necromancers bargain, magus can have nearly 100%uptime the
    Last edited by Jinnobi; 2019-06-12 at 03:29 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnobi View Post
    In PvP, Magus of the Dead makes up a large percentage of my damage - as does my regular permanent pet, Abomination, etc...
    Your major PvE damage done is AUTOATTACK from the PLAYER and from your PETs (GHUL, ARMY, MAGUS).

    Since its PvP and you lose uptime by design, its logical that your non-autoattack abilitys will do more percentage wise, since you are not doing max-dps anymore.

    If you are able to get 100% uptime like many melees are able to in PvP, you will see your autoattack damage done again UP and your magus more DOWN in the details. If you get more out of magus, it just means you are doing bad DPS (by design).

    This is pretty unique for unholy and frost, since every other melee got a much lower percentage of autoattack damage when they are doing max-dps.

    Unholy works only because of the Necrotic Strike buffs and will be dead in pvp when they nerf it again. DPS did not change at all between S1 and S2 but the necrotic buff alone made unholy from least played spec to one of the meta specs.

    The mechanical disadvantage from PvE is not gone in PvP, we just got Necrotic Strike thats all.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    This is pretty unique for unholy and frost, since every other melee got a much lower percentage of autoattack damage when they are doing max-dps.
    This is not true for all melee dps autoattacks is second or third in damage.

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