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  1. #61
    Neither. Categorising politics into left and right wings is like categorising morality into light side and dark side. Blue team vs red team.

    People like to categorise things because it makes life simpler to understand, but the truth is as you'd expect: things, and people, are more complicated than that -- and can range from any shades in between. People can have mixed views on many different things.
    Last edited by Will; 2019-04-28 at 09:50 PM.

  2. #62
    It's weird to me that people think of their families as being either right or left wing. My family had no over political viewpoint growing up, they were just normal people with generic views that don't translate into a set partisan belief system.

  3. #63
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Give Sethrak Blizz View Post
    Conservative but left economically.

    I hated it but I love them both either way.
    You know that's juxtaposed with neoliberalism? Neoliberalism is all about eschewing conservative traditions on the social issues. While emphasizing capitalism on the economic issues.

  4. #64
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The republican position is that America cannot pay for both a massive military and universal health care. Europe and Canada can provide universal health care to its people because its military budget is very small. Its military budget is very small because they get free military service from the US.

    The options on the table are:

    1. Pay for both a massive US military budget and universal health care in the US. This means tax rates must go sky high and the US becomes noncompetitive on the global marketplace. Its economy collapses and business and corporations flee high tax rates. China becomes the world's superpower.
    2. Make massive cuts to the US military budget to pay for universal health care in the US. China becomes the world's superpower.
    3. Levy a tax on nations that have received substantial free military service from the US to protect it during the Cold War and in modern times. Nations that refuse to pay the tax will be removed from NATO / UN obligations to protect it from Russia, China, etc. That means allowing Russia and China to invade Poland or Germany or Scandinavia or whomever else refuses to pay the tax.

    The core problem per republicans is the US is providing free military protection to all of Europe. That expenditure prevents the US from having universal health care. The money just isn't there to do it. It doesn't matter who you elect, no one is ever going to pass a universal health care law in the US. That's why Obama wins in 2008 and has a supermajority and can pass pretty much anything he wants and just passes an insurance thingy with a tax on people who don't have insurance.
    I would say you're wrong and here's why:

    America spends the most per capita on health care because our healthcare is private and super super expensive our half assed coverage of a few costs us more than any other country pays to cover their entire country.

    For instance, why can a scan cost $300 in Europe and cost $9000 in America? Why can insulin cost $12 in Canada and $275 in America when both products are provided by the same company.

    Why is a cancer drug that sells for $2500 a kilo selling for over $310mn per kilo in America.

    The issue is that costs are out of control because we don't have a public system that allows us to bargain for reasonable prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    While I'd love to go into more detail about how... to put it delicately, 'interesting' your statements are, I'd rather just address it as a whole, as it relates to the thread. You can refer to my signature in response to the bolded statement, which even a Frech man could understand centuries ago.

    What's considered left/right-wing is so superfluous and propagandized that it's pretty much pointless nowadays to nail it down. Even today I see Republicans who'd be considered left of many Democrats, and I see Democrats who'd be considered right of many Republicans, because the labels themselves are rather flawed right now (and the propagandizing of labels isn't helping, by design). Even in the past 100 years, what was considered a Democrat has changed drastically when it comes to the average voter and citizen, especially where those in control of said party have taken and wish to take it. I see it quite a bit in these forums, where left-leaning people tend to bash religious people, particularly Catholics... but they fail to realize that heavily religious people were the core voting block for the Democrats about 50 years ago. What happened? The party moved away from them, embracing abortion, and suddenly the rhetoric from Democrats went from embracing Christians on a large scale to using them as a butt of a joke. This isn't the only topic where the party kept moving left and ostracizing everyone in the middle, and you can tell when a Democratic candidate comes out and says anything remotely considered right-wing and gets crucified by their own.

    Anyways, don't want to digress too much, but it kind of puts into context my parents. In their younger days, they would've said they're Democrat, but that is by no means what Democrat is today. The big sticking point is that they did not want government interference in their lives and thought it was very wrong, no matter how bad things could be, and they thought the concept of redistribution of wealth was theft, and that they wanted lower taxes for everyone and didn't want the government overspending money on crap it wasn't supposed to spend on (keep in mind, your average Democrats used to think this). If you talk to them nowadays, they're not party affiliated because the Democrats have moved so far away from what the party used to believe over time. They aren't Republican not because of policy necessarily, as they embrace many tenants that the Democrats used to embrace before going extreme, but they don't like the lifetime politicians in either major party (current terms would put it as the 'establishment').

    Despite my parents being Democrat at the time, they instilled in me the rights of the individual and the ethic to work for myself instead of being a slave to the government and welfare, no matter how poor we were... which is now scorned by the same party. Sure enough, without government assistance and with the help of neighbors and our church, we survived and moved up in life with hard work. My parents are still very religious, my father is even a pastor who operates a homeless shelter. Over the years I've known him, his ideas of what the role of the federal government should be with the citizenry hasn't really changed much, as well as policies, and the Democrat party that once would accept him would now shun him for what he believes.
    There are plenty of democrat christians in other areas... the main people who are staunch christians and conservative are in the south and west, coastal christians generally are democrats. Many democrats are christians and god is often very much apart of them when they're running for office.

    You're saying the democrats are making christians the butt of the joke but typically the only christians getting their butt hurts are arguably the radical christians which I will include evangelicals in that group of radical christians.

    What is extreme about the Democratic Party truly tell me what is this extreme because the extreme portions in America are run of the mill in literally every other western nation. Truly the only extreme is America.

    What do you mean by "no matter how poor we were which is now scorned by the same party" which party is this I can't figure what you mean because you were just noting democrats. Are you thinking democrats are the ones who don't care about the poor and would scorn such?

    Your parents sound like hypocrites honestly with the idea of "boo government assistance" but "yay church assistance and neighbours"

    Not everyone has churches and neighbourhoods to look after them, in the end welfare that helps gets people out of poverty and into higher stations is good for the economy at large.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    I was raised by a single mother who was very liberal. She didn't want to work and wanted the government to pay for everything. I guess thats why im so conservative now.
    Was she poor?

  5. #65
    bit of both. Right wing when it comes to immigration, left wing when it comes to social programs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    Islam is a race. End of discussion.
    Nazi btw

  6. #66
    Left-wing, but my family wasn't that political until I became interested in politics.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Both sides aren't equal so I see no value in the Fox News republican. And cnn isn't liberal... it is centrist.
    CNN is centrist?

    You are hilarious.
    Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Just because the Blue Wave was forecast, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    Yeah folks, he said it....

  8. #68
    In my country we don't have the US kind of definitions of left and right.

    That being said: My dad is a self-employed entrepreneur, my mom was in the social sector. I'll continue my dad's business, my sister is also in the social sector. The four of us are (were, my mom isn't anymore since end of 2016 ) a really well working harmonic "clover leaf" as we like to say (since we were four), tight, loving and respecting as can be, each to every other one the same.
    I'd say we have always been economically conservative with a readiness to support social causes and taxes spent well, and spritually quite liberal - but not forcibly "libural". We all laugh about most moves for PC for example, but have been taught to be freely thinking people, still. I'm very sure that most US-lefts would call us rightish, and most US-rights would call us leftists, each probably focusing on our most ill-fitting aspects with regards to their own ideology. Make of this what you will.

    For me personally: I'm fucking sick of this categorization into two mostly extreme polar opposites. Those doing this seem to think this world is simple. It isn't. It's YOU that is simple. Too simple.

  9. #69
    Pandaren Monk Avskildhet's Avatar
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    Left. Almost everyone vote social democrats or left party.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    You know that's juxtaposed with neoliberalism? Neoliberalism is all about eschewing conservative traditions on social issues. While emphasizing capitalism on the economic issues.
    Difference between been for preserving certain institutions and considering gay people unnatural.
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  11. #71
    Mixed, liberal dad, conservative mom.

  12. #72
    I grew up in an extremely right wing, racist, homophobic family until I came out as gay, and then both of my parents immediately flipped to left wing. My Mom joined PfLAG and marches in parades (which I don't do). My dad watches Bill Maher. I don't even do that.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Kyphael's Avatar
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    Not so much right-wing, but definitely conservative, though they seemed to think they were hip and with the times. They were kind of hypocrites, really. I still love them but I must say, I learned more from my school teachers than them about history, culture, religion, and politics.

    I guess the best word to describe them would be backwards yuppies.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I would say you're wrong and here's why:

    America spends the most per capita on health care because our healthcare is private and super super expensive our half assed coverage of a few costs us more than any other country pays to cover their entire country.

    For instance, why can a scan cost $300 in Europe and cost $9000 in America? Why can insulin cost $12 in Canada and $275 in America when both products are provided by the same company.

    Why is a cancer drug that sells for $2500 a kilo selling for over $310mn per kilo in America.

    The issue is that costs are out of control because we don't have a public system that allows us to bargain for reasonable prices.
    Collectivity = Socialism/Communism = Hell on earth. That's why Republicans let people die who can't afford the extreme prices of healthcare in the US. Logical, right!

  15. #75
    Right wing military house. We’ve all abandoned the GOP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  16. #76
    I grew up in a small town in Norway where everybody essentially voted for Labour, since the town is mostly centered around the industry of its factory.

    I guess I was somewhat of a reactionary centrist when I was a little younger. I thought feminism was stupid, didn't understand the experiences of trans people and other stuff.

    Took a hard turn left during my Master Thesis in graduate school after learning more about the world and how damaging capitalism and the ideology of the status quo can be, I guess.
    - Dare not to sleep -

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictu View Post
    I grew up in an extremely right wing, racist, homophobic family until I came out as gay, and then both of my parents immediately flipped to left wing. My Mom joined PfLAG and marches in parades (which I don't do). My dad watches Bill Maher. I don't even do that.
    while Maher tends to be a pompus ass, he does get a wide mix of people on the panels, so for that alone its worth a watch

  18. #78
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Give Sethrak Blizz View Post
    Difference between been for preserving certain institutions and considering gay people unnatural.
    I'm confused, you're conservative but you do or do not want gay people to raise kids?

    Also how can you say you are economically left while neoliberal. It's literally based on minimal taxes and regulations compared to social liberal policies.

  19. #79
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Politics never was discussed that I remember. Finding work so we could eat was the main topic. Traveling from state to state as migrant farm workers, we never stayed anywhere long enough to vote and it was a life style choice my family made. One I did not want and left when I was old enough to do so.
    The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that… it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” - Thomas Jefferson.

    If I do not respond to your post directed at myself, there will be three reasons. 1. You are on my ignore list. 2. You did not make a post I felt was worthy of a response. 3. I simply never saw it, as I do not dig thru posts if I been offline for a while.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I would say you're wrong and here's why:

    America spends the most per capita on health care because our healthcare is private and super super expensive our half assed coverage of a few costs us more than any other country pays to cover their entire country.

    For instance, why can a scan cost $300 in Europe and cost $9000 in America? Why can insulin cost $12 in Canada and $275 in America when both products are provided by the same company.

    Why is a cancer drug that sells for $2500 a kilo selling for over $310mn per kilo in America.

    The issue is that costs are out of control because we don't have a public system that allows us to bargain for reasonable prices.
    The current US federal budget: around $4 trillion.
    Current US health care government spending: around $1 trillion.
    Projected cost of universal health care: around $2 trillion.
    US defense budget: $600 billion.

    Let's assume universal health care results in some incredibly optimistic savings and it only costs $1.5 trillion instead of $2 trillion. The US would still need to either:

    1. COMPLETELY wipe out its defense budget to pay for it.
    2. raise taxes substantially to the point where the US is noncompetitive on the global marketplace.

    More realistically, universal health care will overshoot spending projections and wind up around $2.3 to $2.5 trillion.

    Its just not gonna happen. Ever. The US will never go to universal health care (unless it is only for very very basic, simple and cheap procedures) because the ONLY possible way it will work is if the US scraps its military budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I want the ruins of K'aresh for 9.0 as I envision it as Netherstorm on steroids. A broken, shattered world. Eco-domes are stuck on various chunks to protect flora & fauna. I imagine a K'aresh ocean & maybe some islands contained in an eco dome or a snow-capped peak with some jungle valleys in another. Flesh version of Ethereals that never got altered. Space platforms as in Starcraft. Just a totally fantastic tileset & theme that I'd be very keen to explore. They could do some wild things.

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