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  1. #81
    Father and mother both social-democrats. Grandparents on my father's side both very conservative Christians (right wing) and grandfather on my mother's side was center left. I'm a social-democrat too (center left) and my wife is a socialist, my son is green-left.


    @CryotriX Romania? (colors of your avatar)
    Last edited by Software; 2019-04-28 at 10:52 PM.

  2. #82

  3. #83
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The current US federal budget: around $4 trillion.
    Current US health care government spending: around $1 trillion.
    Projected cost of universal health care: around $2 trillion.
    US defense budget: $600 billion.

    Let's assume universal health care results in some incredibly optimistic savings and it only costs $1.5 trillion instead of $2 trillion. The US would still need to either:

    1. COMPLETELY wipe out its defense budget to pay for it.
    2. raise taxes substantially to the point where the US is noncompetitive on the global marketplace.

    More realistically, universal health care will overshoot spending projections and wind up around $2.3 to $2.5 trillion.

    Its just not gonna happen. Ever. The US will never go to universal health care (unless it is only for very very basic, simple and cheap procedures) because the ONLY possible way it will work is if the US scraps its military budget.
    Let's say universal healthcare comes down to cost us between 9.8-11% of gdp like every other country? Note that on healthcare the USA currently spends 17.9% of gdp on it while every other universal healthcare state pays between 9-11% for the most part.

    The reason universal healthcare wouldn't be cheap in America has to purely do with inflated healthcare cost, unless healthcare cost are brought down of course it is going to be expensive. It is already costing us as a percent of gdp many times more than others pay. despite the fact we don't cover everyone and that's because shit that is 200 in other countries can cost 16000 and that's fucking literally 16000

    We don't have to raise taxes we just simply need to bring the cost of healthcare down like every other country

    If x company wants to sell their insulin to Americans then they will be forced to sell it at $15 else they don't get a government contract and when everyone is covered by the government that means no money for them so they will make it $15 it is why it is $12-13 in Canada yet in America it magically cost $275? That $275 cost for a drug that sells everywhere else for $12-$25 is why universal healthcare doesn't work unless we bring down the prices to what is reasonable.

  4. #84
    Hardcore homophobic and racist household. Definitely far right wing household.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The republican position is that America cannot pay for both a massive military and universal health care. Europe and Canada can provide universal health care to its people because its military budget is very small. Its military budget is very small because they get free military service from the US.

    The options on the table are:

    1. Pay for both a massive US military budget and universal health care in the US. This means tax rates must go sky high and the US becomes noncompetitive on the global marketplace. Its economy collapses and business and corporations flee high tax rates. China becomes the world's superpower.
    2. Make massive cuts to the US military budget to pay for universal health care in the US. China becomes the world's superpower.
    3. Levy a tax on nations that have received substantial free military service from the US to protect it during the Cold War and in modern times. Nations that refuse to pay the tax will be removed from NATO / UN obligations to protect it from Russia, China, etc. That means allowing Russia and China to invade Poland or Germany or Scandinavia or whomever else refuses to pay the tax.

    The core problem per republicans is the US is providing free military protection to all of Europe. That expenditure prevents the US from having universal health care. The money just isn't there to do it. It doesn't matter who you elect, no one is ever going to pass a universal health care law in the US. That's why Obama wins in 2008 and has a supermajority and can pass pretty much anything he wants and just passes an insurance thingy with a tax on people who don't have insurance.
    Why is there this idea that Europe wants the US military to be camped in Europe? You shift the blame for mindless spending on the army on us, which is just avoiding your own problems. Nobody gives a shit about the US military except the people from the US.

  6. #86
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vkpush View Post
    Why is there this idea that Europe wants the US military to be camped in Europe? You shift the blame for mindless spending on the army on us, which is just avoiding your own problems. Nobody gives a shit about the US military except the people from the US.
    Forget all that, forget the argument he just made.

    Just look purely at GDP percentage spent.

    American spends damn near 18% of gdp while not covering everyone and most states (countries) spend 9-12% while covering everyone.

    So his argument of "it is the military spending!" Is bullshit and wrong, the issue is something that cost 200 elsewhere cost 16k here. That drugs that cost $20 in other countries the same companies (which are usually American companies) sell it there at $200 a pill vs $20 a refill.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Forget all that, forget the argument he just made.

    Just look purely at GDP percentage spent.

    American spends damn near 18% of gdp while not covering everyone and most states (countries) spend 9-12% while covering everyone.

    So his argument of "it is the military spending!" Is bullshit and wrong, the issue is something that cost 200 elsewhere cost 16k here. That drugs that cost $20 in other countries the same companies (which are usually American companies) sell it there at $200 a pill vs $20 a refill.
    Well yea but I keep hearing this from military nutters on this forum. "We're covering all of Europe with our military", it's not even true and I can assure you most Europeans don't even see this so called army. It's certainly not present anywhere in the nordics.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    We don't have to raise taxes we just simply need to bring the cost of healthcare down like every other country
    Absolutely no one is claiming the US can have universal health care and not raise taxes. That is impossible. They will go up substantially.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vkpush View Post
    Well yea but I keep hearing this from military nutters on this forum. "We're covering all of Europe with our military", it's not even true and I can assure you most Europeans don't even see this so called army. It's certainly not present anywhere in the nordics.
    Europe is covered by the US military via the NATO pact which obligates it to protect it in case it gets invaded. The NATO pact doesn't obligate the US to station a huge freaking army in Germany. Armies are mobile and at the first sign of aggression, the US can move in to protect Europe. That means Europe is free to not spend anything on military and can pour resources into universal health care.

    That why one republican option is to tell Europe to either start paying a defense tax to the US or the US drops out of the NATO pact and won't protect Europe. Europe can build its own military to stop Putin or China or whomever else, and cut its universal health care to cover it.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2019-04-28 at 11:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I want the ruins of K'aresh for 9.0 as I envision it as Netherstorm on steroids. A broken, shattered world. Eco-domes are stuck on various chunks to protect flora & fauna. I imagine a K'aresh ocean & maybe some islands contained in an eco dome or a snow-capped peak with some jungle valleys in another. Flesh version of Ethereals that never got altered. Space platforms as in Starcraft. Just a totally fantastic tileset & theme that I'd be very keen to explore. They could do some wild things.

  9. #89
    Neither.

    Just a normal family that worked and lived for their own instead of projecting their issues on others, as well as keeping the politics of their homeland away from their children.

  10. #90
    i grew up with a family that didnt give a shit about politics because they knew they, as a single family, had less than 0% chance of making even the slightest bit of a difference. i also dont really give a shit about politics.

  11. #91
    I would say mine was split, my mother could care less about anything political. My father whom in his own words before he passed talked how conservatism has changed to the point that it is not about the overall uplifting of the poor but more akin to boot licking corporate leeches. He voted for the right until 2012 but was strong on abortion rights and other things the left covets so i would say he was center right perhaps?

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Drummer View Post
    I would say I grew up in quite a left wing family , all labour supporters.
    where is the centrist family option that doesnt engrain them selves to one side because of indoctrination?

  13. #93
    Very much a right wing family. That said, right wing when I was a kid would be the equivalent to a moderate Democrat today.

    Both Democrats and Republicans have moved significantly to the right over my lifetime. My father and a number of uncles got suckered by the fear mongering and moved to the extreme right to stay with Republicans.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Absolutely no one is claiming the US can have universal health care and not raise taxes. That is impossible. They will go up substantially.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Europe is covered by the US military via the NATO pact which obligates it to protect it in case it gets invaded. The NATO pact doesn't obligate the US to station a huge freaking army in Germany. Armies are mobile and at the first sign of aggression, the US can move in to protect Europe. That means Europe is free to not spend anything on military and can pour resources into universal health care.

    That why one republican option is to tell Europe to either start paying a defense tax to the US or the US drops out of the NATO pact and won't protect Europe. Europe can build its own military to stop Putin or China or whomever else, and cut its universal health care to cover it.
    Yes yes keep delude yourself into believing you're actually doing anything worthwhile with your military spending. I couldn't care less, and not all of Europe is a member of NATO.

  15. #95
    I don't know. And I think that's how it really should be.

  16. #96
    Thankfully my parents didn't give much of a fuck for politics. I honestly never knew who each one of my parents voted for and I doubt they knew each others vote either.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Drummer View Post
    I would say I grew up in quite a left wing family , all labour supporters.
    Politics are figments of our fucking imagination, so I'm pretty sure this thread is irrelevant.

  18. #98
    My parents are completely disinterested in politics.

  19. #99
    Left wing. They all vote for the democrats.

  20. #100
    Dad is right, mum is a hippy but votes right because our left wing politicians in Australia are fucked in the head

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