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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The republican position is that America cannot pay for both a massive military and universal health care. Europe and Canada can provide universal health care to its people because its military budget is very small. Its military budget is very small because they get free military service from the US.

    The options on the table are:

    1. Pay for both a massive US military budget and universal health care in the US. This means tax rates must go sky high and the US becomes noncompetitive on the global marketplace. Its economy collapses and business and corporations flee high tax rates. China becomes the world's superpower.
    2. Make massive cuts to the US military budget to pay for universal health care in the US. China becomes the world's superpower.
    3. Levy a tax on nations that have received substantial free military service from the US to protect it during the Cold War and in modern times. Nations that refuse to pay the tax will be removed from NATO / UN obligations to protect it from Russia, China, etc. That means allowing Russia and China to invade Poland or Germany or Scandinavia or whomever else refuses to pay the tax.

    The core problem per republicans is the US is providing free military protection to all of Europe. That expenditure prevents the US from having universal health care. The money just isn't there to do it. It doesn't matter who you elect, no one is ever going to pass a universal health care law in the US. That's why Obama wins in 2008 and has a supermajority and can pass pretty much anything he wants and just passes an insurance thingy with a tax on people who don't have insurance.
    Why is there this idea that Europe wants the US military to be camped in Europe? You shift the blame for mindless spending on the army on us, which is just avoiding your own problems. Nobody gives a shit about the US military except the people from the US.

  2. #82
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vkpush View Post
    Why is there this idea that Europe wants the US military to be camped in Europe? You shift the blame for mindless spending on the army on us, which is just avoiding your own problems. Nobody gives a shit about the US military except the people from the US.
    Forget all that, forget the argument he just made.

    Just look purely at GDP percentage spent.

    American spends damn near 18% of gdp while not covering everyone and most states (countries) spend 9-12% while covering everyone.

    So his argument of "it is the military spending!" Is bullshit and wrong, the issue is something that cost 200 elsewhere cost 16k here. That drugs that cost $20 in other countries the same companies (which are usually American companies) sell it there at $200 a pill vs $20 a refill.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Forget all that, forget the argument he just made.

    Just look purely at GDP percentage spent.

    American spends damn near 18% of gdp while not covering everyone and most states (countries) spend 9-12% while covering everyone.

    So his argument of "it is the military spending!" Is bullshit and wrong, the issue is something that cost 200 elsewhere cost 16k here. That drugs that cost $20 in other countries the same companies (which are usually American companies) sell it there at $200 a pill vs $20 a refill.
    Well yea but I keep hearing this from military nutters on this forum. "We're covering all of Europe with our military", it's not even true and I can assure you most Europeans don't even see this so called army. It's certainly not present anywhere in the nordics.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    We don't have to raise taxes we just simply need to bring the cost of healthcare down like every other country
    Absolutely no one is claiming the US can have universal health care and not raise taxes. That is impossible. They will go up substantially.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vkpush View Post
    Well yea but I keep hearing this from military nutters on this forum. "We're covering all of Europe with our military", it's not even true and I can assure you most Europeans don't even see this so called army. It's certainly not present anywhere in the nordics.
    Europe is covered by the US military via the NATO pact which obligates it to protect it in case it gets invaded. The NATO pact doesn't obligate the US to station a huge freaking army in Germany. Armies are mobile and at the first sign of aggression, the US can move in to protect Europe. That means Europe is free to not spend anything on military and can pour resources into universal health care.

    That why one republican option is to tell Europe to either start paying a defense tax to the US or the US drops out of the NATO pact and won't protect Europe. Europe can build its own military to stop Putin or China or whomever else, and cut its universal health care to cover it.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2019-04-28 at 11:09 PM.

  5. #85
    Neither.

    Just a normal family that worked and lived for their own instead of projecting their issues on others, as well as keeping the politics of their homeland away from their children.

  6. #86
    i grew up with a family that didnt give a shit about politics because they knew they, as a single family, had less than 0% chance of making even the slightest bit of a difference. i also dont really give a shit about politics.

  7. #87
    I would say mine was split, my mother could care less about anything political. My father whom in his own words before he passed talked how conservatism has changed to the point that it is not about the overall uplifting of the poor but more akin to boot licking corporate leeches. He voted for the right until 2012 but was strong on abortion rights and other things the left covets so i would say he was center right perhaps?

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Drummer View Post
    I would say I grew up in quite a left wing family , all labour supporters.
    where is the centrist family option that doesnt engrain them selves to one side because of indoctrination?

  9. #89
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Very much a right wing family. That said, right wing when I was a kid would be the equivalent to a moderate Democrat today.

    Both Democrats and Republicans have moved significantly to the right over my lifetime. My father and a number of uncles got suckered by the fear mongering and moved to the extreme right to stay with Republicans.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Absolutely no one is claiming the US can have universal health care and not raise taxes. That is impossible. They will go up substantially.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Europe is covered by the US military via the NATO pact which obligates it to protect it in case it gets invaded. The NATO pact doesn't obligate the US to station a huge freaking army in Germany. Armies are mobile and at the first sign of aggression, the US can move in to protect Europe. That means Europe is free to not spend anything on military and can pour resources into universal health care.

    That why one republican option is to tell Europe to either start paying a defense tax to the US or the US drops out of the NATO pact and won't protect Europe. Europe can build its own military to stop Putin or China or whomever else, and cut its universal health care to cover it.
    Yes yes keep delude yourself into believing you're actually doing anything worthwhile with your military spending. I couldn't care less, and not all of Europe is a member of NATO.

  11. #91
    I don't know. And I think that's how it really should be.

  12. #92
    Thankfully my parents didn't give much of a fuck for politics. I honestly never knew who each one of my parents voted for and I doubt they knew each others vote either.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Drummer View Post
    I would say I grew up in quite a left wing family , all labour supporters.
    Politics are figments of our fucking imagination, so I'm pretty sure this thread is irrelevant.

  14. #94
    My parents are completely disinterested in politics.

  15. #95
    Left wing. They all vote for the democrats.

  16. #96
    Dad is right, mum is a hippy but votes right because our left wing politicians in Australia are fucked in the head

  17. #97
    Left wing family. Mother mostly apolitical but father was always a leftie. Grandparents on the other hand are the exact opposite.
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    y el ritmo que nos sacudió hasta el hueso

  18. #98
    Used to be centrist but then the right went crazy and pushed us to the left.

  19. #99
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    Used to be centrist but then the right went crazy and pushed us to the left.
    If you're American no one really moved... except the right.

  20. #100
    Not really a big topic in our family, but pretty moderate with some left leaning. Then again, compared to the US we're all commies.
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