Did you grow up in a right wing or left wing family?

[Sliske]

bit of both. Right wing when it comes to immigration, left wing when it comes to social programs.

[McCulloch]

Left-wing, but my family wasn't that political until I became interested in politics.

[NED funded]

You know that's juxtaposed with neoliberalism? Neoliberalism is all about eschewing conservative traditions on social issues. While emphasizing capitalism on the economic issues.

Difference between been for preserving certain institutions and considering gay people unnatural.

[Zaktar]

Mixed, liberal dad, conservative mom.

[Benedictu]

I grew up in an extremely right wing, racist, homophobic family until I came out as gay, and then both of my parents immediately flipped to left wing. My Mom joined PfLAG and marches in parades (which I don't do). My dad watches Bill Maher. I don't even do that.

[Kyphael]

Not so much right-wing, but definitely conservative, though they seemed to think they were hip and with the times. They were kind of hypocrites, really. I still love them but I must say, I learned more from my school teachers than them about history, culture, religion, and politics.

I guess the best word to describe them would be backwards yuppies.

[Software]

I would say you're wrong and here's why:

America spends the most per capita on health care because our healthcare is private and super super expensive our half assed coverage of a few costs us more than any other country pays to cover their entire country.

For instance, why can a scan cost $300 in Europe and cost $9000 in America? Why can insulin cost $12 in Canada and $275 in America when both products are provided by the same company.

Why is a cancer drug that sells for $2500 a kilo selling for over $310mn per kilo in America.

The issue is that costs are out of control because we don't have a public system that allows us to bargain for reasonable prices.

Collectivity = Socialism/Communism = Hell on earth. That's why Republicans let people die who can't afford the extreme prices of healthcare in the US. Logical, right!

[Fixxit the Gnome]

I grew up in a small town in Norway where everybody essentially voted for Labour, since the town is mostly centered around the industry of its factory.

I guess I was somewhat of a reactionary centrist when I was a little younger. I thought feminism was stupid, didn't understand the experiences of trans people and other stuff.

Took a hard turn left during my Master Thesis in graduate school after learning more about the world and how damaging capitalism and the ideology of the status quo can be, I guess.

[D Luniz]

I grew up in an extremely right wing, racist, homophobic family until I came out as gay, and then both of my parents immediately flipped to left wing. My Mom joined PfLAG and marches in parades (which I don't do). My dad watches Bill Maher. I don't even do that.

while Maher tends to be a pompus ass, he does get a wide mix of people on the panels, so for that alone its worth a watch

[PC2]

Difference between been for preserving certain institutions and considering gay people unnatural.

I'm confused, you're conservative but you do or do not want gay people to raise kids?

Also how can you say you are economically left while neoliberal. It's literally based on minimal taxes and regulations compared to social liberal policies.

[Ghostpanther]

Politics never was discussed that I remember. Finding work so we could eat was the main topic. Traveling from state to state as migrant farm workers, we never stayed anywhere long enough to vote and it was a life style choice my family made. One I did not want and left when I was old enough to do so.

[Kokolums]

I would say you're wrong and here's why:

America spends the most per capita on health care because our healthcare is private and super super expensive our half assed coverage of a few costs us more than any other country pays to cover their entire country.

For instance, why can a scan cost $300 in Europe and cost $9000 in America? Why can insulin cost $12 in Canada and $275 in America when both products are provided by the same company.

Why is a cancer drug that sells for $2500 a kilo selling for over $310mn per kilo in America.

The issue is that costs are out of control because we don't have a public system that allows us to bargain for reasonable prices.

The current US federal budget: around $4 trillion.
Current US health care government spending: around $1 trillion.
Projected cost of universal health care: around $2 trillion.
US defense budget: $600 billion.

Let's assume universal health care results in some incredibly optimistic savings and it only costs $1.5 trillion instead of $2 trillion. The US would still need to either:

1. COMPLETELY wipe out its defense budget to pay for it.
2. raise taxes substantially to the point where the US is noncompetitive on the global marketplace.

More realistically, universal health care will overshoot spending projections and wind up around $2.3 to $2.5 trillion.

Its just not gonna happen. Ever. The US will never go to universal health care (unless it is only for very very basic, simple and cheap procedures) because the ONLY possible way it will work is if the US scraps its military budget.

[Software]

Father and mother both social-democrats. Grandparents on my father's side both very conservative Christians (right wing) and grandfather on my mother's side was center left. I'm a social-democrat too (center left) and my wife is a socialist, my son is green-left.


@CryotriX Romania? (colors of your avatar)

[enigma77]

Conservative.

[Themius]

The current US federal budget: around $4 trillion.
Current US health care government spending: around $1 trillion.
Projected cost of universal health care: around $2 trillion.
US defense budget: $600 billion.

Let's assume universal health care results in some incredibly optimistic savings and it only costs $1.5 trillion instead of $2 trillion. The US would still need to either:

1. COMPLETELY wipe out its defense budget to pay for it.
2. raise taxes substantially to the point where the US is noncompetitive on the global marketplace.

More realistically, universal health care will overshoot spending projections and wind up around $2.3 to $2.5 trillion.

Its just not gonna happen. Ever. The US will never go to universal health care (unless it is only for very very basic, simple and cheap procedures) because the ONLY possible way it will work is if the US scraps its military budget.

Let's say universal healthcare comes down to cost us between 9.8-11% of gdp like every other country? Note that on healthcare the USA currently spends 17.9% of gdp on it while every other universal healthcare state pays between 9-11% for the most part.

The reason universal healthcare wouldn't be cheap in America has to purely do with inflated healthcare cost, unless healthcare cost are brought down of course it is going to be expensive. It is already costing us as a percent of gdp many times more than others pay. despite the fact we don't cover everyone and that's because shit that is 200 in other countries can cost 16000 and that's fucking literally 16000

We don't have to raise taxes we just simply need to bring the cost of healthcare down like every other country

If x company wants to sell their insulin to Americans then they will be forced to sell it at $15 else they don't get a government contract and when everyone is covered by the government that means no money for them so they will make it $15 it is why it is $12-13 in Canada yet in America it magically cost $275? That $275 cost for a drug that sells everywhere else for $12-$25 is why universal healthcare doesn't work unless we bring down the prices to what is reasonable.

[Weeps]

Hardcore homophobic and racist household. Definitely far right wing household.

[Krille]

The republican position is that America cannot pay for both a massive military and universal health care. Europe and Canada can provide universal health care to its people because its military budget is very small. Its military budget is very small because they get free military service from the US.

The options on the table are:

1. Pay for both a massive US military budget and universal health care in the US. This means tax rates must go sky high and the US becomes noncompetitive on the global marketplace. Its economy collapses and business and corporations flee high tax rates. China becomes the world's superpower.
2. Make massive cuts to the US military budget to pay for universal health care in the US. China becomes the world's superpower.
3. Levy a tax on nations that have received substantial free military service from the US to protect it during the Cold War and in modern times. Nations that refuse to pay the tax will be removed from NATO / UN obligations to protect it from Russia, China, etc. That means allowing Russia and China to invade Poland or Germany or Scandinavia or whomever else refuses to pay the tax.

The core problem per republicans is the US is providing free military protection to all of Europe. That expenditure prevents the US from having universal health care. The money just isn't there to do it. It doesn't matter who you elect, no one is ever going to pass a universal health care law in the US. That's why Obama wins in 2008 and has a supermajority and can pass pretty much anything he wants and just passes an insurance thingy with a tax on people who don't have insurance.

Why is there this idea that Europe wants the US military to be camped in Europe? You shift the blame for mindless spending on the army on us, which is just avoiding your own problems. Nobody gives a shit about the US military except the people from the US.

[Themius]

Why is there this idea that Europe wants the US military to be camped in Europe? You shift the blame for mindless spending on the army on us, which is just avoiding your own problems. Nobody gives a shit about the US military except the people from the US.

Forget all that, forget the argument he just made.

Just look purely at GDP percentage spent.

American spends damn near 18% of gdp while not covering everyone and most states (countries) spend 9-12% while covering everyone.

So his argument of "it is the military spending!" Is bullshit and wrong, the issue is something that cost 200 elsewhere cost 16k here. That drugs that cost $20 in other countries the same companies (which are usually American companies) sell it there at $200 a pill vs $20 a refill.

[Krille]

Forget all that, forget the argument he just made.

Just look purely at GDP percentage spent.

American spends damn near 18% of gdp while not covering everyone and most states (countries) spend 9-12% while covering everyone.

So his argument of "it is the military spending!" Is bullshit and wrong, the issue is something that cost 200 elsewhere cost 16k here. That drugs that cost $20 in other countries the same companies (which are usually American companies) sell it there at $200 a pill vs $20 a refill.

Well yea but I keep hearing this from military nutters on this forum. "We're covering all of Europe with our military", it's not even true and I can assure you most Europeans don't even see this so called army. It's certainly not present anywhere in the nordics.

[Kokolums]

We don't have to raise taxes we just simply need to bring the cost of healthcare down like every other country

Absolutely no one is claiming the US can have universal health care and not raise taxes. That is impossible. They will go up substantially.

- - - Updated - - -

Well yea but I keep hearing this from military nutters on this forum. "We're covering all of Europe with our military", it's not even true and I can assure you most Europeans don't even see this so called army. It's certainly not present anywhere in the nordics.

Europe is covered by the US military via the NATO pact which obligates it to protect it in case it gets invaded. The NATO pact doesn't obligate the US to station a huge freaking army in Germany. Armies are mobile and at the first sign of aggression, the US can move in to protect Europe. That means Europe is free to not spend anything on military and can pour resources into universal health care.

That why one republican option is to tell Europe to either start paying a defense tax to the US or the US drops out of the NATO pact and won't protect Europe. Europe can build its own military to stop Putin or China or whomever else, and cut its universal health care to cover it.