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  1. #21
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by quite an expert in wow View Post
    as others have said that actually killed jaina on mythic: RNG on this fight only messes with you for a small percentage of wipes.
    other wipes are just by player mess ups
    And yet, it is still a far higher percentage than on the other end bosses, which just adds to the frustration. Not to mention you're dealing with RNG from the very start of the fight. Sure, eventually, P1 is largely manageable, but for many difficult bosses, these phases were completely trivial. You only wiped on KJ P1 if your dispeler lagged or something. Argus was bit more punishing in this particular phase, but next to no rng. Gul'dan?

    Of course Jaina isn't defined solely by randomness - but it adds another layer of difficulty that's really not needed. It's a difficult enough encounter on its' own.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I can't think of a fight before this where the mechanics could just outright cause you to lose no matter what you did. Even worse that it happens right at the end. And 20 attempts out of 300 is pretty common for something so bad.
    This is modified truth. Unless you have done a poor job and everything is chaos (in a pretty controlled environment) prior to the ONLY 2 icefalls in the entire phase, it is really not hard to move out of them, considering they are unable to spawn right next to eachother. If your guild is unable to move slightly to the side to stand inbetween or run out of them then that's a player issue, not a boss issue. They even fixed the Icefall in p2 so that it's clearly visible prior to the gathering blizzard so you no longer have ACTUAL rng wipes. You can ofc still wipe to not keeping track of the mechanic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Well no the issue is it's a very demanding encounter. The RNG is just highly frustrating for an encounter this tough.
    After the nerfs to chilling touch damage and HP, the fight really isn't that straining numberswise. It is purely execution-based. I think you are gimping yourself in terms of setup or strategy if you are struggling a lot.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Well no the issue is it's a very demanding encounter. The RNG is just highly frustrating for an encounter this tough.
    After the nerf RNG is really not an issue, like there is some in P1, which does not really matter, none in intermission and minor in P2 and there is whole one thing in P3 that can be RNG and it's rarely that bad. Nothing crazy there nowadays really.

  4. #24
    There are several issues with the encounter but I honestly wouldn't know how to fix them without breaking the encounter. Unfortunate Icefall placement can have such a huge impact on how well your damage is going to be in last phase but any more changes probably would make that phase really trivial.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2019-04-29 at 02:29 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    There are several issues with the encounter but I honestly wouldn't know how to fix them without breaking the encounter. Unfortunate Icefall placement can have such a huge impact on how well your damage is going to be in last phase but any more changes probably would make that phase really trivial.
    Considering that phase 3 was already a mess from the very start - one which they tried to fix by nerfing the elemental and Shattering Lance - I don't see why that matters anymore. No one is doing the iceblocks, tiny minority is killing the elemental. Should just give that one up and either make elemental even weaker or fix icefalls. And maybe make sure that the next final boss is actually killable using the "intended" strategy.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    I think it's an unfun fight overall. I have never liked extreme RNG in fights, because it makes it very difficult to learn a strategy, but more importantly because it's just plain not fun. And it isn't just RNG, it's RNG that straight up instantly causes a wipe, which is even more frustrating when these fights are so long. I'd rather not set the bar at "Well, at least it isn't G'huun" because that's as low as it goes.

    I think they need to stop with this obscene idea that the last boss in a mythic raid has to be miles above the difficulty progression of all other bosses because they need to give some reason for non-top 500 mythic raiders to pay every month, then release another overturned, 2 boss mini-raid with one boss the difficulty of M Jaina to hold over the top 500 guilds. I mean I'm sorry but if our guild can wipe out one mythic boss every week or two max, but then spend THREE MONTHS on Mythic Jaina, then you either accidentally fucked up, or you intentionally fucked up.
    Blizzard did admit to messing up the tuning.

    They said the earlier bosses before Jaina were too easy.

  7. #27
    Stupid fight is stupid and simply lacked any form of decent testing.

    P1 is a stupidly boring RNG fest - we still got new P1 spell queues after like 300 pulls. The difference in difficulty of some of these spell queues is just stupid. 20 pulls in a row you'll battle falling asleep and then all of the sudden you have 5 pulls where everything goes complete hitler just because the boss decided to whatever. Spell queues with 5 different spells and like 50 different combinations are not fucking fun. Not being able to tell if you'll have to move in the next 5 seconds or not is not fun.

    The first Intermission is pretty whatever. The most stupid part is that it required you to set your graphics to certain levels (which you needed addons or a bunch of scripts for). The nerf made that phase at least bearable, the fixed spawn location was kinda whatever.

    P2 was ok, the only annoyance here where the random Icefall + Blizzard overlaps. Yes, you can technically spot Icefall locations during Blizzards by forcing people into Iceblocks, but that just felt really awkward and unneeded.

    After that it just goes all to shit. Intermission 2 doesn't work since P3 doesn't work at all.

    P3 wasn't properly tested, that's just it. The phase being over after like a minute is just dumb. The circumstance that you're supposed to get iceblocked but you can't possible think about surviving more than 15 stacks is just dumb. The Prismatic Image spawning in Uganda when there's random Icefalls happening is dumb.

    They must have playtested the fight on mythic with damage turned down by 99% and HP turned up by 800%. And after they felt comfortable with that just randomly changed the numbers to something that just doesn't work at fucking all. This fight is definitely one of the most pathetic fights I've ever played although it could and should've been way more.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I think I prefer G'huun to hey I spawned two icefalls on you in p3 causing an automatic wipe when you have to move halfway across the room.
    end bosses in mythic instantly wipe you for failing?

    WELCOME TO MYTHIC RAIDING, you must be new here, enjoy though.

  9. #29
    mmo champ forums

    " lawls vanilla was sos harder thats why retail ssux and ima play classic!!!"

    " omg blizz made a fight thats hard, they suck at making fights!"

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    end bosses in mythic instantly wipe you for failing?

    WELCOME TO MYTHIC RAIDING, you must be new here, enjoy though.
    I'm not sure you understand how mythic Jaina works.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    mmo champ forums

    " lawls vanilla was sos harder thats why retail ssux and ima play classic!!!"

    " omg blizz made a fight thats hard, they suck at making fights!"
    mmo champ forums:
    "lawls, I didn't read the thread and have no idea about the topic, but I still strawmanned everyone inside!!!"
    "omg I made a fool out of myself, they suck at humor!"

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Less than 500 kills and only two months and change to the next tier.

    Do you think this extremely poorly designed RNG fight sees nerfs before then?
    Let it be, it's fine... It's kinda entertainment to watch rng throwing them off guard.

  13. #33
    https://clips.twitch.tv/BetterRamshacklePlumDogFace

    Agreed with Methodjosh. "Jaina at certain points felt like bullshit."

    Obviously we aren't doing the same encounter they did anymore, but it's a mess of an encounter that doesn't really work at all like it's supposed to.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    end bosses in mythic instantly wipe you for failing?

    WELCOME TO MYTHIC RAIDING, you must be new here, enjoy though.
    member since 2009 but doesen't understand anything

    stop posting here thanks

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalvia View Post
    member since 2009 but doesen't understand anything

    stop posting here thanks
    yeah only had like every cutting edge from ToGC 25 to gul'dan before i quit due to class design issues, but hey jaina is totally new and unique with fucking players over with uncontrollable RNG, cool story bro.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendhal The Black View Post
    I take anything over G'huun and his "Oh you don't have 2+ warlocks and roster full of a wheelchair specs ? Well good luck then"
    Everybody with a brain would have warlock alts at that point.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    yeah only had like every cutting edge from ToGC 25 to gul'dan before i quit due to class design issues, but hey jaina is totally new and unique with fucking players over with uncontrollable RNG, cool story bro.
    wow, you're telling me that you have CE experience in a game that's 14 years old? CE across 5 expansions!! wowee! it's not like 90% of all people that apply to CE guilds have some past CE experience too or something!! i guess you must really know first hand what all these complaints about RNG are about then!

    i guess spell queuing was added with argus which you didn't experience and then the RNG that came with spell queuing only really became noticeable with ghuun, which you didn't experience. and then spell queuing continues to be frustrating at times with jaina along with icefall RNG completely ruining a pull, again, things you haven't experienced.

    i mean, i know you don't have any modern CE experience, but man. 5 expansions worth of 10 achievement points per raid that i'll never be able to attain, EVER. that alone must mean your opinion on modern mythic raiding must mean more than the opinions of those who are actually currently raiding mythic.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by wombats23 View Post
    wow, you're telling me that you have CE experience in a game that's 14 years old? CE across 5 expansions!! wowee! it's not like 90% of all people that apply to CE guilds have some past CE experience too or something!! i guess you must really know first hand what all these complaints about RNG are about then!

    i guess spell queuing was added with argus which you didn't experience and then the RNG that came with spell queuing only really became noticeable with ghuun, which you didn't experience. and then spell queuing continues to be frustrating at times with jaina along with icefall RNG completely ruining a pull, again, things you haven't experienced.

    i mean, i know you don't have any modern CE experience, but man. 5 expansions worth of 10 achievement points per raid that i'll never be able to attain, EVER. that alone must mean your opinion on modern mythic raiding must mean more than the opinions of those who are actually currently raiding mythic.
    oh shit the new school noobs are out acting like they're something because they did the latest content, gtfo kid you think you got struggles and in the past all tiers were just flawless without bugs without problems and only this new "spell queuing" and "icefall rng" are the real top level experiences? LUL

    wombats23 has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were, because i've taken bigger shits than you.

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