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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Loosecannon View Post
    but there's nothing like a pre-nerf Seat of the Triumvirate or anything-
    Seat and Cathedral were added in later on, and Cathedral was massively nerfed, I'd take my bets same is gonna happen when Mechagon gets added to m+ rotation but that won't be until 8.3 or so. Blizzard tunes these to be a "challenge" on m0 when they're added and then with m+ scaling on top they get out of hand. Same thing with Karazhan 2.0, some abilities like Moroes garrotte had to be nerfed a lot to stop being ridiculous on m+.

  2. #22
    As a pugger King's Rest seems to fail the most... People just can't handle the mechanics. Shrine is usually fine if dps is decent.

  3. #23
    Blademaster Zendhal The Black's Avatar
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    Atal Dazar, Tol'dagor, Freehold are the easiest ones no matter the affixes

    Underrot, Temple of Sethralis, Siege of Boralus, Waycrest Manor are the middle ground, some affixes makes them horrible to do (Waycrest with Sanguine or bursting)

    Shrine of the Storms, King's Rest and Motherlode are nightmare fuel... and when you get some of the perfectly balanced affixes, just don't bother that week... Like Teeming Fortified Motherlode

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    I'm very slowly returning to Mythics (not aiming much more than 4-5), as apparently, the raider IO thingy everyone is obsessed with require you to do them to get taken in PUGs.

    So simply said, what is the equivalent of Black Rook Hold, aka [I]oh jesus christ, no one want to do it [/I ] ?
    You are talking about +4-5 dungeons. With all the gear available for casual players (casually playing can bring you up to ilvl 400+), you will not be having any problems in any dungeon.
    Keep in mind, if you do not want to do +10, you will NEVER get any upgrades from m+, so you shouldn't even bother doing them in the first place.

  5. #25
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceall View Post
    You are talking about +4-5 dungeons. With all the gear available for casual players (casually playing can bring you up to ilvl 400+), you will not be having any problems in any dungeon.
    Keep in mind, if you do not want to do +10, you will NEVER get any upgrades from m+, so you shouldn't even bother doing them in the first place.
    Oh yeah, because you only play for upgrades, not for fun

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Blade Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    I'd say shrine of the storms.

    Nobody wants to deal with that. Or under rot really.
    Shrine is the equivalent to Seat as in fuck that dungeon i'd never touch it again.
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    The people who cry for censorship aren't going to be buying the game anyway. Censoring it, is going to piss off the people who were going to buy it.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade Wolf View Post
    Shrine is the equivalent to Seat as in fuck that dungeon i'd never touch it again.
    It's really not that bad anymore, just need an interrupt rotation and a healer who knows not to die on the last boss.

  8. #28
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    Atal'Dazar, Freehold and Tol Dagor are the easiest dungeons out there. Of course there are affixes that make them more difficult, but generally, all of these are some of the easiest regardless of week. Tol Dagor is the easiest dungeons because two of the bosses are free, and the rest of the dungeon can be cheesed with the canons. You can absolutely be awful at the canons, killing several people over that part of the dungeon and still be fine time wise. Atal'Dazar has two bosses that kill themselves, and Freehold is incredibly open, allowing you to by-pass trash that could be nasty with particular affixes. The only difficult thing about Freehold is the first boss on high tyrannical, and the second boss when Eudora is active.

    The two hardest dungeons if you're not assuming affixes are King's Rest and Shrine of the Storms. King's Rest has hard bosses and incredibly difficult trash between the second/third boss, with brutal run backs if you die, and a few points that are incredibly difficult. Shrine requires very good interrupts, has difficult mini-bosses, and also has a lot of very difficult bosses as well. Shrine however is open ended, and if you have groups that know what they are doing, is much easier than King's Rest. If you approach this dungeon with skips in mind (skipping every mini-boss you can), and have people who can interrupt, the instance actually isn't as bad as it once was. King's Rest on the other hand is always difficult.

    An overlooked dungeon is Motherlode. While the bosses in here are some of the easiest, the trash in here is absolutely nasty and Motherlode as a whole doesn't play well with nearly every affix. Fortified weeks are absolutely awful in this place and most of the other affixes don't play nicely with this place as well. Teeming, sanguine, bolstering and to a lesser degree explosve/bursting, all make this place awful. There are only a handful of weeks out of the current 12 that people actually consider push material for Motherlode. Other instances have far more weeks that are viable for pushing.

    Another dungeon people don't consider a lot is Siege of Boralus. This place is absolutely awful IMO and part of the reason is how it's suppose to be ran. Failure to tag certain mobs before you tag the other mobs (thus triggering their auto death) can cause severe routing issues later in the dungeon, and a lot of the trash is pretty nasty as a whole. The biggest issue with this dungeon is you save lots of time getting to the end as quickly as possible, and then keeping the spotter alive (especially on fortified weeks, or weeks with raging/bolstering), to backtrack and kill trash you skipped prior. This is much akin to TD canons, however using spotters for prolonged periods of time is much more difficult to pull off, and in turn makes the dungeon not nearly as fun to run.

    Shrine really isn't as bad as it once was. It just has awful community perception because people avoided it (rightfully so) for the first 4-5 months of the expansion releasing. KR and Motherlode are probably the hardest dungeons, with Motherlode being pretty okay on like 2-3 of the weeks max. The rest of the weeks just avoid it completely.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade Wolf View Post
    Shrine is the equivalent to Seat as in fuck that dungeon i'd never touch it again.
    can you say what problems you have with shrine? i feel like it's quite a nice dungeon to do and may be able to help you to overcome some problems
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  10. #30
    The amount of caster mobs rammed into that dungeon makes it 10 times worse than even Motherlode trash. If you run prot warrior / prot pala + triple melee or ele shaman it's fine, but any sub optimal group setup low on interrupts / aoe stuns and it becomes annoying, reaping waves with 5+ casters etc. That's also assuming your average pug can coordinate interrupts on the fly instead of everyone burning theirs on the same mob.

  11. #31
    shrine is fine... siege of boralus is easily the hardest dungeon at the moment.

  12. #32
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Shrine is a ton easier since it was nerfed, but lots of people still hate it because either they don't know how significant the last round of nerfs ended up being, or because they just realise it's a shitty, unfun dungeon no matter how trivial it gets. (I hate Shrine. I don't care that it's easy now. I hate Shrine).

    King's Rest is my favourite dungeon in a vacuum, but of all the dungeons it is probably the one least built for an m+ context and I think that is reflected in a lot of people having very low opinions of it. A couple of the reaping timings are awkward, you have to do a ton more trash than you actually need for the counter, there's no pull flexibility, etc. On top of that, some of the trash and a couple of the bosses can be pretty challenging if you haven't seen them a few times. So, yeah, a lot of people hate KR so if you're just targeting based on people's preferences, that's a good one to hit if you haven't by now.

    The actually difficulty of each varies based on the affixes though. For example: Motherlode is a pretty easy m+ but it's miserable on Fortified/Teeming, Waycrest sucks on Tyrannical/Grievous but is also normally one of the less challenging ones, Tol Dagor is annoying as fuck on Sanguine, etc. But honestly if you're just trying to build up your score for pugs, just hit anything you can hit that you don't have or you don't have a good time on. Early on that probably matters more than the specific dungeons you have done.
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  13. #33
    It depends on the affixes. Freehold is almost always the easiest dungeon. Atal Dazar, while easy overall, can be a pain with some combination like teeming-fortified.

    Shrine of the storm and King's rest remain the most egregious overall. However, they don't come close to the absolute horrors that were Cathedral and Seat at release.

    Edit: Tziva's post and Tojara's post are 100% spot on.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2019-05-12 at 08:42 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Deaged View Post
    shrine is fine... siege of boralus is easily the hardest dungeon at the moment.
    Shrine will probably get the Cathedral treatment, IE nerfed so it's not that hard, but community perception that it's the hardest dungeon will still persist for a long time. Even I fell into that trap until recently, albeit fuck doing Shrine on Tyra weeks still because of the second and final bosses.

    Personally Atal'dazar remains my favorite dungeon to push mostly because there's one checkpoint, the trash before Vol'kal. If you can pass this, the entire rest of the instance is most likely on cruise control. Siege isn't hard so much as incredibly annoying with the ideal method requiring you to keep the spotter alive for inordinate amounts of time which as a non-Rogue melee DPS is ... less than ideal. I also dislike the cannons in Tol Dagor, I don't think mechanics like that should exist.

  15. #35
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Admittedly, since i've only returned to the game recently, I'm still at the bottom mythic+ levels (2-3), but what is Shrine so hated? I take it that higher the key the greater the chance you playing with good and knowledgeable players.

    Shrine is essentially people remembering they have an interrupt button on their bars and, on the 3rd boss, that MC'ed people have to run over the orbs

  16. #36
    pugging mother high keys... yukk

  17. #37
    Blademaster Zendhal The Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    people remembering they have an interrupt button on their bars
    And here's the problem when you have 5 mobs that requires interupting 2 different abilities in a pull

    Also trash balance in way off when the biggest and thoughest mobs gives you next to nothing and there are olny limited and gimmicky ways to skip them

  18. #38
    Fluffy Kitten Aurora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Admittedly, since i've only returned to the game recently, I'm still at the bottom mythic+ levels (2-3), but what is Shrine so hated? I take it that higher the key the greater the chance you playing with good and knowledgeable players.

    Shrine is essentially people remembering they have an interrupt button on their bars and, on the 3rd boss, that MC'ed people have to run over the orbs
    In low and mid level pugs nobody coordinates interrupts on the 2nd boss and the healer gets overwhelmed, it also has some nasty consequences for mindless AoEing on packs for bursting with groups of low health normals and bolstering where there are occasions with one elite patrolling with several low health normals. All of that also requires only one player to not understand or not be paying attention which happens quite a lot in a pug for lower keys.
    Generally if the group gets passed the 2nd boss they'll be fine.

  19. #39
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    In low and mid level pugs nobody coordinates interrupts on the 2nd boss and the healer gets overwhelmed, it also has some nasty consequences for mindless AoEing on packs for bursting with groups of low health normals and bolstering where there are occasions with one elite patrolling with several low health normals. All of that also requires only one player to not understand or not be paying attention which happens quite a lot in a pug for lower keys.
    Generally if the group gets passed the 2nd boss they'll be fine.
    I've sort of adapted to the first case. I try to delay my interrupts as long as possible see if anyone does it in the absence of an interrupt order which is 100% of the time.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Admittedly, since i've only returned to the game recently, I'm still at the bottom mythic+ levels (2-3), but what is Shrine so hated? I take it that higher the key the greater the chance you playing with good and knowledgeable players.

    Shrine is essentially people remembering they have an interrupt button on their bars and, on the 3rd boss, that MC'ed people have to run over the orbs
    A dozen of mobs in the instance can fuck you up. If your group isn't coordinated, you can wipe on almost every pull. Just look at the trash between the first and the second boss. I don't think it's a hard dungeon at a moderate level (I healed a +12 Shrine last week and it was easier than I expected), but it probably requires more focus than the majority of the dungeons. Shrine is very unforgiving and punishes the mispositions very quickly.

    However, if you know your shit, the second boss is the only major difficulty. The dungeon rewards the knowledge.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2019-05-13 at 05:12 PM.

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