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  1. #41
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    A dozen of mobs in the instance can fuck you up. If your group isn't coordinated, you can wipe on almost every pull. Just look at the trash between the first and the second boss. I don't think it's a hard dungeon (I healed a +12 Shrine last week and it was easier than I expected), but it probably requires more focus than the majority of the dungeons.
    But if you're doing +12, I sure hope that skill level up there is far better.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    But if you're doing +12, I sure hope that skill level up there is far better.
    Sure. I was playing with good players and it was a breeze minus a few hiccups. The tank knew what he had to do. But I've done a few Shrine that went horribly wrong (for example a +10 with an undergeared friend that took 72 minutes).
    It still requires good knowledge and coordination, while you can just bruteforce FH for example.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    But if you're doing +12, I sure hope that skill level up there is far better.
    Even with the interrupt tracker weak aura I often see pugs burn interrupts on first thing they can. And hard to call it out when nobody uses voice coms. I had a depleted underrot 15 in a pug only because 2 trash pulls went south due to lack of interrupts (the shadow bolt volley / wither dudes before 3rd boss and one worm later on). Thing is in a dungeon like Waycrest I can mostly cherry pick myself the most important interrupts (as a tank) and many spells can be purged off even if they go through.

    Shrine has some problematic pulls for example the priests at start that heal, there are some packs with 2-3 of them and if you don't interrupt well and don't have spammable purge, they will heal endlessly especially when a templar is around (thank Blizzard they made that guy purgable at least, used to be a nightmare with his damage reduction aura).

    Oh yeah, and afaik they finally nerfed teeming in Shrine because the double tentacle triple caster pack on teeming before bridge had 100% wipe ratio in pugs before. I've seen groups deciding to invis it just because it was so annoying to deal with.

    Yeah I know for organized groups and highly experienced key pushers everything is a cakewalk, now for average +10 / +15 pug these are just average players, they usually know by now they have an interrupt button and what kind of puddles they shouldn't stand in, but they aren't coordinated or knowing every small bit of a dungeon (I still sometimes see people get blown off the platform on 1st boss in Shrine).

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    But if you're doing +12, I sure hope that skill level up there is far better.
    Shrine is one of the hardest dungeons mechanically. In high keys, groups usually do 5-6 skips (Living Current, Windspeaker Heldis, Runecarver Sorn, Guardian Elemental, the room with two Drowned Deathbringers after 2nd boss, and the bridge afterwards). Most of the trash throughout the dungeon needs either on-spot interrupts, or hard CC to disrupt incoming damage. 2nd and 4th bosses require good interrupt rotation (3rd boss too, but it's much easier). Healer DPS is very important on last boss.

    No single mechanic of skip from above is rocket-science hard, but you get opportunities to fuck something up on every single pull, and eventually something goes wrong. Especially in pugs with no voice communication. If you wipe before killing the 3rd boss, your respawn point is at the dungeon portal. If you need to run all the way back from the entrance, you might need to do every single skip again and have no means for that anymore.

    As you do higher keys, you'll try to use a more optimal route (e.g. do all of the above skips) and that will force more mistakes from your group. This means you might not get comfortable with the entire optimal route until you get to keys higher than +20. At that point you start enjoying the dungeon. But until you get there - your key can be ruined by a single player failing a single skip, or by missing an interrupt here and there. That makes it not fun for less organized groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Yeah I know for organized groups and highly experienced key pushers everything is a cakewalk, now for average +10 / +15 pug these are just average players, they usually know by now they have an interrupt button and what kind of puddles they shouldn't stand in, but they aren't coordinated or knowing every small bit of a dungeon (I still sometimes see people get blown off the platform on 1st boss in Shrine).
    You will still see people getting blown off the platform in +20 pugs. At some point everyone makes the dumbest possible mistakes.

  5. #45
    My personal hardest would be: (keep in mind that it is HIGHLY dependant of the affixes!)

    - Shrine
    - Kings Rest
    - Siege

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    But if you're doing +12, I sure hope that skill level up there is far better.
    Interrupts are still a crapshoot up until 15s. I did an 11 Atal last week (tyrannical/grievous) where none of the casters were interrupted and it made it feel like a 15 fortified.

  7. #47
    Shrine is the worst regardless of affixes because the trash has too many fuck you mechanics, same could be said about the bosses. An average/decent player is able to waltz into most of these dungeons and adapt on the fly to the mechanics. That won't happen in Shrine.

    The other criminal ones are TOS (especially on tyrannical) and Kings' Rest.

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