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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Brenz View Post
    How about this.
    Not every spec or class should be viable..... Gasp.
    what the actual fuck?

    Are you insane?

    If a class isn't viable in content, you have quite literally failed as a developer. By definition.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    Have you ever tried to run a +10 with a 200 io tank from Ragnaros
    +10 dungeons are mindless, They take literally no effort to on time.
    Dragonflight Summary, "Because friendship is magic"

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am not sure that's true. I mean Blizzard has kept adding tanks, do we have that many more tanks?
    Compared with when warriors were the only tank? Yeah for sure.

  3. #223
    Mechagnome Asaliah's Avatar
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    Just put a mythic dungeon LFG FFS.
    Once you clear 5 times mythic 0 you have access to LFG mythic+1 etc etc....

    With this they'll have to make every spec viable as groups won't be made only by elitist wannabes

  4. #224
    I think that instead for either removing shroud or giving other classes a “semi-shroud” item, they should just design the dungeons in a way that makes shroud less valuable. Shroud is very iconic for Rogues so in my opinion it would be sad if they made an item which could do almost the same.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I think that instead for either removing shroud or giving other classes a “semi-shroud” item, they should just design the dungeons in a way that makes shroud less valuable. Shroud is very iconic for Rogues so in my opinion it would be sad if they made an item which could do almost the same.
    like invis pots? :P

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    +10 dungeons are mindless, They take literally no effort to on time.
    Yes and no.

    For those of us who are up with curve, with optimized gear for our specs, understand all the affixes, know which packs to pull, which ones to skip, what abilities to interrupt, which ones to ignore and have decent enough friends/i.o score for pugs.... then yes, a weekly +10 is nothing.

    For perhaps the other 90% of player, not so much.

    Mythic + dungeons really don't belong in a game with 36 specs IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asaliah View Post
    Just put a mythic dungeon LFG FFS.
    Once you clear 5 times mythic 0 you have access to LFG mythic+1 etc etc....

    With this they'll have to make every spec viable as groups won't be made only by elitist wannabes
    Honestly, if they created a robust match-matching system then I could totally get behind a group finder for mythics... obviously so long as they keep the ability to enter as a premade intact and don't give any extra buffs/rewards for using group finder.

    Surely it wouldn't be over difficult? Plenty of online games use match-making systems to keep the games fair(ish). queue times would obviously be quite long for higher keys, but that's what pre-mades are for anyway.
    Last edited by Dakara; 2019-05-15 at 11:04 AM.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by khazlol View Post
    like invis pots? :P
    Right now Rogues, Druids, Hunters and Mages can use some type of invisibility, so I would not say it is as unique as Shroud.. in my opinion of course

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Heck shroud actually makes far less sense than a mass invisibility spell would. How on earth does a rogue enable a plate wearing tauren to stealth?
    rogues seem to have quite a bit of magic, if you think about it.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    LEGION had other issues. You either had immunitys (REAL COOLDOWNS) for specific bosses/weeks or you could not survive even at lower keys.

    The balance is really bad even for ST damage, you see it on Simcraft (15%+ gap) and Logs (20-25%+ gap). And AoE/Cleave damage for dungeons is completly unbalanced - everyone with a rogue ALT does know how little is needed to outperform ilvl 20+ players from other classes WHILE allready having all the rogue toolkit.

    A hard nerf to Protwarrior and Outlaw's contants high AoE would be a good start with a shroud tax for dungeons. It would enable much more comps to perform similar.

    Shroud tax*: if you use shroud/invis you need more %. You still can skip unwanted packs but for a cost.
    Shroud tax would be a good idea. Puts a 20% damage debuff on all shrouded players for 5 minutes.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  10. #230
    I also wish to see the engineer battlerez castable from range. 4 seconds cast and a profession slot taken is penalty enough

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Shroud tax would be a good idea. Puts a 20% damage debuff on all shrouded players for 5 minutes.
    Blizzard can very easily fix the problem with Shroud by building the dungeons more optimally. They already have mobs that can see through stealth, so they just need to add more of those for example. They also need to address the mobs/packs which are usually skipped with shroud. Currently, some minibosses give waaay to little percentage so there are no incentive for killing them. If Blizzard make a better correlation between the challenge of the mobs/packs and the rewards (percentage) then shroud would become a lot less valuable. No need to add a tax.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Blizzard can very easily fix the problem with Shroud by building the dungeons more optimally. They already have mobs that can see through stealth, so they just need to add more of those for example. They also need to address the mobs/packs which are usually skipped with shroud. Currently, some minibosses give waaay to little percentage so there are no incentive for killing them. If Blizzard make a better correlation between the challenge of the mobs/packs and the rewards (percentage) then shroud would become a lot less valuable. No need to add a tax.
    It just seems like blizzard no longer cares like they used to. Maybe they are all busy working on classic wow and have no time for live hotfixes.

  13. #233
    One thing I expected them to do, And I believed they said they would, but haven't is add things like class buffs to dungeons like they had with court of stars. I agree this added an element or RNG, but they could balance the dungeons a bit by having the off-meta items spawn more frequently or something.

    Just a suggestion, IDK if they could balance it or not.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    A lot of problems have to do with dungeon design more than game design and could be fixed that way but I don't think you can at all call redesigning the dungeons easy.
    No, redesigning is not necessarily an easy task. The best thing would be to design the dungeons properly from the start.

    I do believe however, that the following would be an (relatively) easy fix and a good start:

    1) Add true vision (see through stealth) to more mobs.

    2) Let more challenging mobs give more percentage so people would be less incentive to skip certain mobs.

    Some of the mobs in for example Shrine of Storm give too little percentage in relation to the challenge they present.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Absolutely they should have designed them better, and given that BfA dungeons were supposedly designed with M+ in mind, the way they are is quite the failure. But your (1) is simply making shroud useless which is not good design either. (2) can work if they redo the math.
    All the talk about adding truesight. They should just let alchemy/inscription/engineering have a consumable/device that gives shroud. It's not like the other scrolls though where a lesser effect would be fine (since you have to get a certain distance with full duration for some skips). Some might still not be possible without a rogue due to no sprint to keep up with mounted speed (druid/monk could probably still do it or make it usable while mounted).

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I think the timer ruins it for tons of people who liked stuff like BC and Cataclysm heroics.
    Exactly the problem I see in this mode.

    I just want a difficult dungeon setting that may even take 3 hours to clear with many wipes along the way.
    This timer just makes people rush and pick the best strategies/classes for rushing and skipping and if the timer expires - many times a player leaves the group because for some reason getting 2 drops in the end of a run isn't worth it but 3 drops is.

    TL;DR - People play for max reward while putting least effort instead of enjoying the game.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlofski View Post
    Exactly the problem I see in this mode.

    I just want a difficult dungeon setting that may even take 3 hours to clear with many wipes along the way.
    This timer just makes people rush and pick the best strategies/classes for rushing and skipping and if the timer expires - many times a player leaves the group because for some reason getting 2 drops in the end of a run isn't worth it but 3 drops is.

    TL;DR - People play for max reward while putting least effort instead of enjoying the game.
    The people that would stay for a full 3 hour dungeon in BC/Cat are the same people that would stay for a depleted key.

  18. #238
    The timer and the fact that Blizzard is pushing M+ dungeons as esports is the core issue here. Aslong as that clock is there, people will lean towards the most optimal setup.

    Blizzard can never achive 100% class balance here unless they basically remove all spells in the game and just hand out new ones that every class will have.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by pay928 View Post
    The people that would stay for a full 3 hour dungeon in BC/Cat are the same people that would stay for a depleted key.
    The problem with this if you deplete the key AND people leave, no reward for you, no AP, no loot, nothing.
    If a difficult, 3 hour long dungeon gets interrupted by some shitty leavers, np you find someone else and finish the dungeon at your own pace.

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