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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Well... this isn't true, and people even before Legion appearance pointed to this simple and logical fact: it didn't for Legion too. Oh... you won't belive how I don’t want to dig into detailed explanation (probably not less much as people tired of reading it ) of classes holistic design and their fantasy priority over any idea of “artificial fancy specs” and especially roles again, that none of which have ever worked in this game ...and I probably won't. We discussed this everything here on forum. Some examples of such discussions:
    I’ll clarify it easier: artifact tied your character to a specific spec and its role, so without looking at what it expanded, it was bad in terms of design (character and artifact were interrelated = restriction on choice of characteristics → role → customization → gameplay). That is, non-character item had priority over entire class design, don't it even sounds silly? Everything is quite simple and logical, it's enough to add 1 to 1.
    A lot of stuff they are talking there i had said it here, i choose some of my posts about it on this thread:

  2. #162
    100% yes. If the HoA gave us everything we lost, the azerite system and all the classes would feel so much better. I've got all 12 classes at 120 now, gotta say, the only specs that feel fluid are : Fury war, Frost DK, Havoc DH Everything else feel like there's a button missing. those 3 specs are the only 3 I can tolerate long enough to actually play. Fluidity as a healer / tank is less important, because the RNG panic that can occur keeps it interesting IMO, but EVERY DPS spec should have fluid combat.

    Gotta say as its on subject though, I really REEALLY miss healing touch on my resto druid.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by thunterman View Post
    100% yes. If the HoA gave us everything we lost, the azerite system and all the classes would feel so much better. I've got all 12 classes at 120 now, gotta say, the only specs that feel fluid are : Fury war, Frost DK, Havoc DH Everything else feel like there's a button missing. those 3 specs are the only 3 I can tolerate long enough to actually play. Fluidity as a healer / tank is less important, because the RNG panic that can occur keeps it interesting IMO, but EVERY DPS spec should have fluid combat.

    Gotta say as its on subject though, I really REEALLY miss healing touch on my resto druid.
    Frost DK? I couldn't agree less tbh. All others i agree but Frost dk is not one of them. Havoc DH barely suffers from GCDs and the uptime is really good. Frost dk stays there auto attacking for ages because of the lacking resources, they are so bad atm. Where are they fluid? I really don't see it. They are like stuck with BoS for life and has downtime. No matter how much changes they do, relying on BoS forever as the most source of damage in a talent is just poorly designed.

  4. #164
    Mechagnome Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annka View Post
    A lot of stuff they are talking there i had said it here, i choose some of my posts about it on this thread:
    I understand, I just emphasize priority of what allows system to function correctly, over the fact that "I like something".
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    --- it was Cata conversation ---
    Well, impressions are relative/individual, but from mechanics point of view - this was the worst option of "old system". For example, MoP was the best option of "new system" but! new one is worse than old in coherence with RPG component of this game. Ie, I can say that I liked MoP classes design, but I continue to argue that in general it's bad system for this particular game. Is that more clear? Mastery was crap in way they implemented it, but reforging was good. Glyphs was added during WotLK, in fact, they were additional "talent" options and could be easily realized inside talent trees, but they found a good place for a new profession, which isn't bad in itself.

    - I could like smoking, but this still doesn't mean that it's healthy for my organism.

    I may like system, but this doesn't mean that it's correct/better. Just as for current game design, todays class system design is appropriate (*shudders&frowns* it's disgusting to associate this filth with word "design" in general, but let's say this way), but here already conflict is much more global and flawed is entire game design, because it was created in attempt to divide indivisible (аnd the first steps were laid exactly by Cataclysm with its "separation into specs"/LFR/CRZ/phasing attempts). Most evident and obvious present ex.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The team wants to see more class representation in Mythic + and the MDI and will consider this when adding affixes in the future.
    - it was needless to take into consideration such $hitty additions during class design in MoP (as well as in previous expansions), so... but exactly Cataclysm was transition from old global design to new one, and it fully concerns class design too - it wasn't old and it wasn't new, it was transitional hybrid that had no independent future, because it had disadvantages of both systems together.
    Have you noticed that you continue to discuss specs instead of discussing classes?

    Don't think that I'm trying to attack you or your opinion, just pointing that discussion direction becomes somewhat confused with this approach: just only everything was bad, and then it turns out already that in a certain sense was good. You need to act definitely and confidently in current situation à la guerre comme à la guerre
    Quote Originally Posted by Annka View Post
    you don't play a class only, you play a class and a spec
    Don't you notice problem here? Maybe things should be different? May be better to return to class and specific build discussions?.. which doesn't try to influence classes design (limit) and balance (adjust to content) and leaves choose of particular role type to you and your "items' set".
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-05-04 at 11:49 AM.
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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    I understand, I just emphasize priority of what allows system to function correctly, over the fact that "I like something".

    Have you noticed that you continue to discuss specs instead of discussing classes?

    Don't think that I'm trying to attack you or your opinion, just pointing that discussion direction becomes somewhat confused with this approach: then everything is bad, then it turns out already and in a certain sense is good. You need to act definitely and confidently in current situation à la guerre comme à la guerre
    It's fine don't worry about me, i'm used to take criticism. But as for the me talking about specs, it's because classes has specs, you don't play a class only, you play a class and a spec. And not all specs are balanced, they make a spec be so bad, that you need to change to the spec that is good at the moment. That is another issue to talk about. For you to play a class you will always need to select a spec, they are tangled either you like it or not. So obviously i will talk about specs when i talk about classes and vice versa.

  6. #166
    The biggest problem (for me) with BFA was that it didn't seem to offer significantly different experience from Legion. It promised "more of the same" - but at that time I was completely and thoroughly done and burned out with Legion (quit and unsubbed after Nighthold progression), with its RNG systems (and other annoyances like class design, loot design etc). I really didn't want to plunge into another expac with similar systems. So I didn't.

    Waiting to see if the design philosophy changes for 9.0.

  7. #167
    About a good 100% of what I do in WOW involves class design.

    For the first time since 2004, i've never been so demoralized and depressed about an expansion. I guess it's just a coincidence that I lost interest in wow.

    We lost so much stuff coming from legion to BFA it's not even funny.

    We feel pruned, weak, and just flat out slower.

  8. #168
    Stood in the Fire Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dussenbar View Post
    I play a BM/MM hunter since Legion/BFA and I'm having fun so far. Don't see why people are that upset.
    Which means you never played it before and therefore has nothing to compare it to like we who has played previous expansions can. Ignorance is bliss.
    My hunter has been my main since Vanilla. Hunter at the moment is nothing like it used to be. It's slow and clunky and feels off. Also the class fantasy Blizz added to BM in Legion clashes with the class fantasy me and a lot of others had since Vanilla.

  9. #169
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I think BM is in the best spot it's ever been design wise. Same with Havoc DH (although that's not saying much as it's a new spec). I find MM to be an atrocious mess that has the weirdest flowing rotation I've ever played. SV is great but it's melee and them changing a ranged spec to melee was the worst decision they ever made.
    I don't think it had to be a bad decision, and if it had been made many expansions ago it'd have been fine. However, every new class introduced has been melee, so adding a melee spec in place of a ranged one was not a good choice.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by oathy View Post
    Feel 100% the same.
    It never felt like a good replacement for the weapons in Legion.
    It goes deeper, they could have made the traits socketed items crafted by the professions and had each ring with one empty socket so that there was always choice or you could buy/craft the ones you wanted. That alone would have fixed many things with azerite gear in general.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

  11. #171
    Mechagnome
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    Hard to pick what the worst mistake of BfA is when there's so many of them.

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