Epic's exclusive Acquisition continues... Rocket League is next.

[PACOX]

Not like I liked ghost recon anyway. But another reason to dislike Epic and Ubisoft. They don't need to make their game epic exclusive but they do so anyway. Because $$$$$

That's really not surprising since Ubisoft has been pulling away from Steam. I expect more and more of the bigger publishers to start doing that. EA, Bethesda, Activision/Blizzard, Ubisoft, NCSoft, just off the top of my head have been slowing pulling out for a while. A lot of devs, even those under publishers, really don't care for Steam.

[sibut]

You can make pro's and con's because nether is perfect. That's not a hard concept to understand.

Yes EGS lacks features (most I personally give no shits about) but its also more "clean" and Epic themselves isn't allowing shit on it that Valve does with Steam. You can't just pick one part of EGS and go well the whole store is shit and Steam is better.

Both are shit but there is pro's and con's with both, Once again nether is perfect.

Right so you're essentially admitting that Steam is a much more functional platform even though you "don't care about" the features involved, and Epic's biggest pro seems to be that they curate content more seriously rather than allowing for more of an open marketplace. Personally I'd rather have functionality since I'm perfectly capable of sifting through games myself (and I don't ever read/watch any of Steam's idiot curators' opinions about anything), but to each their own I guess.

[Jtbrig7390]

Right so you're essentially admitting that Steam is a much more functional platform even though you "don't care about" the features involved, and Epic's biggest pro seems to be that they curate content more seriously rather than allowing for more of an open marketplace. Personally I'd rather have functionality since I'm perfectly capable of sifting through games myself (and I don't ever read/watch any of Steam's idiot curators' opinions about anything), but to each their own I guess.

The functionally quality of the stores will very from person to person.

You care about friends lists, I don't. EGS works for that its intended to be, A digital store. You need all the other bells and whistles, I don't.

Over all like I said both have pros and cons over each other, Both are also piles of shit.

[sibut]

What the actual fuck....?

My reaction as well.

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Over all like I said both have pros and cons over each other, Both are also piles of shit.

Can you list a single pro for EGS other than "They severely limit the games available on their platform," which to many of us wouldn't even be considered a positive? I'm honestly curious.

[Jtbrig7390]

Can you list a single pro for EGS other than "They severely limit the games available on their platform," which to many of us wouldn't even be considered a positive? I'm honestly curious.

Publishers get a better cut. (More games making profit, more games getting made).
The Free games they have been giving away have been really good quality (IMO).
The store is cleaner to look at. (IMO)
You can't bomb reviews like a 12 year old because a publisher made you mad.
Its not a cesspool of assist flips and they actually monitor what goes on the store.

You don't get to pick out pros and go "hey can you list things you like but you can't say X,Y,Z" that's not how this works.

Its a digital store, it works as a digital store. I don't need it to be some social hub. Maybe that's what you need but it isn't what I need.

Edit: The biggest pro about the EGS is really simple. They are actually trying to improve the dam store unlike Valve.

[sibut]

Publishers get a better cut. (More games making profit, more games getting made).
The Free games they have been giving away have been really good quality (IMO).
The store is cleaner to look at. (IMO)
You can't bomb reviews like a 12 year old because a publisher made you mad.
Its not a cesspool of assist flips and they actually monitor what goes on the store.

I'm skeptical that publishers keeping more cash will mean that they'll turn around and plug that back into making more quality games rather than just passing it to shareholders or pocketing it, but I'm willing to concede that it could certainly be a positive. I'll have to keep a closer eye on the free games; I don't use EGS enough to keep up with that but free games are cool. I'm also not 100% sure how the review system works; not being able to bomb reviews sounds like a good feature unless it means that EGS doesn't allow reviews at all, or suppresses negative ones. Anyway, those are indeed some good (or potentially good) additional reasons so fair enough.

You don't get to pick out pros and go "hey can you list things you like but you can't say X,Y,Z" that's not how this works.

I never said that? All I said was "other than x which you've already described as your main draw to the platform (even though not everyone would agree that it's a positive feature) what do you like about it?"

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm skeptical that publishers keeping more cash will mean that they'll turn around and plug that back into making more quality games rather than just passing it to shareholders or pocketing it, but I'm willing to concede that it could certainly be a positive. I'll have to keep a closer eye on the free games; I don't use EGS enough to keep up with that but free games are cool. I'm also not 100% sure how the review system works; not being able to bomb reviews sounds like a good feature unless it means that EGS doesn't allow reviews at all, or suppresses negative ones. Anyway, those are indeed some good (or potentially good) additional reasons so fair enough.



I never said that? All I said was "other than x which you've already described as your main draw to the platform (even though not everyone would agree that it's a positive feature) what do you like about it?"

Like I said in my edit (You may have missed) the biggest pro is the fact they are actually trying to improve EGS. Valve has been sitting on their hands doing very little for years. Hell Origin had a better refund policy before they did.

Epic has to give a shit about improving their store, Valve has became complacent.

[sibut]

Like I said in my edit (You may have missed) the biggest pro is the fact they are actually trying to improve EGS. Valve has been sitting on their hands doing very little for years. Hell Origin had a better refund policy before they did.

Epic has to give a shit about improving their store, Valve has became complacent.

That's fair. I know that even outside of the store issues, I'm annoyed with Valve sitting on their IPs like Half-Life and Portal and not doing anything with them. I could see if they had a plan to push HL3 or Portal 3 when the next round of consoles dropped and were holding it for that and keeping it Steam exclusive on PC, but I really have no fucking clue what Gabe's doing. Do they just have so much money that they don't care about millions and millions they could be making from those titles? It baffles me.

[Jtbrig7390]

That's fair. I know that even outside of the store issues, I'm annoyed with Valve sitting on their IPs like Half-Life and Portal and not doing anything with them. I could see if they had a plan to push HL3 or Portal 3 when the next round of consoles dropped and were holding it for that and keeping it Steam exclusive on PC, but I really have no fucking clue what Gabe's doing. Do they just have so much money that they don't care about millions and millions they could be making from those titles? It baffles me.

Why care about millions when your sitting on billions?

That's the issue and it has shown how lazy Valve (mainly Gabe) is. Valve is also a privately owned company, there is really no outside presser for Gabe to do shit.

Hell they didn't add a decent refund policy until they was sued and made to do it.

[Rogalicus]

Like I said in my edit (You may have missed) the biggest pro is the fact they are actually trying to improve EGS. Valve has been sitting on their hands doing very little for years. Hell Origin had a better refund policy before they did.

Epic has to give a shit about improving their store, Valve has became complacent.

It's been almost half a year since launch and the only thing they've added is search bar. They've also already broken their own roadmap.
Also Zimbabwe's economic growth is bigger than US, doesn't mean that their economy is in better state or that US has been complacent for years.

[sibut]

Why care about millions when your sitting on billions?

That's the issue and it has shown how lazy Valve (mainly Gabe) is. Valve is also a privately owned company, there is really no outside presser for Gabe to do shit.

Hell they didn't add a decent refund policy until they was sued and made to do it.

Interestingly when I googled his net worth, looks like it dropped from $5.5B to $3.9B over the last year and a half. Still a metric fuckton of money, but assuming that's accurate I'd be thinking through some shit if I were he. You can stagnate and hope that your platform can stay top dog and ignore all but the publishing that you do, or try to revitalize interest with some of your exclusive IPs. Problem is that if Steam ISN'T actively working on developing any of those games at this point and they DO find out that they need the boost, they're going to be way behind the 8 ball if they decide they want to come out with, say, HL3. I'm not sure how much time and money it'd take to pump out HL3 as a true AAA title in a relative hurry, but even for Valve that'd be a task.

[Jtbrig7390]

Interestingly when I googled his net worth, looks like it dropped from $5.5B to $3.9B over the last year and a half. Still a metric fuckton of money, but assuming that's accurate I'd be thinking through some shit if I were he. You can stagnate and hope that your platform can stay top dog and ignore all but the publishing that you do, or try to revitalize interest with some of your exclusive IPs. Problem is that if Steam ISN'T actively working on developing any of those games at this point and they DO find out that they need the boost, they're going to be way behind the 8 ball if they decide they want to come out with, say, HL3. I'm not sure how much time and money it'd take to pump out HL3 as a true AAA title in a relative hurry, but even for Valve that'd be a task.

The thing is Steam and WoW have a lot in common.

Lots of people was like (X will be the WoW killer) but honestly what hurt WoW was Time and the fact so many other MMO's popped up. The same thing is going to happen to Steam/Valve. The more little fish's that show up the more of the pie the big fish loses.

Gabe is going to sit on his hands and more stores are going to pop up to take a bite of the pie. Now we actually got a company who can put a major dent into Steam and yet Gabe is sitting there doing nothing.

All Gabe has to do is say 88% and EGS goes away and becomes the next Origin at best. Yet he hasn't and that shows how complacent he has became.

A company that is hungry is good for the consumer, Gabe/Valve isn't hungry.

[Yriel]

Not really. That's Netflix offsetting ongoing losses and working to make the company profitable. There's no evidence that raises in prices directly correlate to higher fees for the same shows/movies.

They are financing a lot of movies/series. Where do you think the money for that comes from?

Yes, individuals have opinions and that's cool. But are any studios that have exclusivity deals signed their their publishers speaking out against it? The studio proper, not just a one-off employee here or there? Because one-off employees kinda aren't a meaningful stat in this conversation.

Why would the publishers speak out against it? They made the deal. That's a strange argument. And do you really expect the proper studio speaking out in public against their publisher?
Still you always argue "the developers this, the developers that" and now it's suddenly "But the publishers like the store". Yeah no shit, of course they do. $$$$$

Except that this still benefits the developers because it guarantees a usual minimum-sale deal which can be a part of publishing deals and is always a nightmare. I don't think this means devs are paid more, I've never said that. All I've said is that these moves protect the studios financially and put them in a better position to have a financially successful launch, meaning that there's a far smaller likelihood of layoffs/closures and that they can potentially use additional revenue to grow and expand the studio.

You always said it benefits the devs. In the end it benefits the Publishers and maybe some higher-ups. Do you really think that e.g. Crunch will end and they will hire more people with their higher income to compensate for that? I doubt so.

As a minority stakeholder they have zero control and minimal influence within Epic.

A 40% owner has "zero control" and "minimal influence"? You don't have much knowledge about the corporate world, do you?

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A company that is hungry is good for the consumer, Gabe/Valve isn't hungry.

Yeah, steam with all their sales and price reductions are really bad for the customers, the Epic store with their high prices and no sales is soooo much better because they are "hungry". O.o

[Jtbrig7390]

Yeah, steam with all their sales and price reductions are really bad for the customers, the Epic store with their high prices and no sales is soooo much better because they are "hungry". O.o

You do realize its the publishers of the games that has the sales and not actually steam right?

Also those sales have been getting worse and worse over the years.

[Yriel]

You do realize its the publishers of the games that has the sales and not actually steam right?

Also those sales have been getting worse and worse over the years.

Yes they did. And do you know why? Because the Publishers didn't like the bigger discounts and the short frequency of the sales. And do you know who the Epic store caters to? Exactly, Publishers.

[Edge-]

They are financing a lot of movies/series. Where do you think the money for that comes from?

Uh, from the stock market and existing loans. They haven't been profitable in years, they're burning money like nobodies business. These increases aren't to pay more for content, they're to offset ongoing losses.

Why would the publishers speak out against it? They made the deal. That's a strange argument. And do you really expect the proper studio speaking out in public against their publisher?
Still you always argue "the developers this, the developers that" and now it's suddenly "But the publishers like the store". Yeah no shit, of course they do. $$$$$

I didn't say publishers, I said the developers proper. Not a one-off random staffer, but the actual development studio.

You always said it benefits the devs. In the end it benefits the Publishers and maybe some higher-ups. Do you really think that e.g. Crunch will end and they will hire more people with their higher income to compensate for that? I doubt so.

Yaknow, except for indie games without publishers. And except that, even if publishers benefit more, the money still helps provide a huge safety cushion for the developer which eases the pressure on them when it comes to launch.

Never said anything about crunch, that's a separate issue from this and one that needs to be handled separately.

A 40% owner has "zero control" and "minimal influence"? You don't have much knowledge about the corporate world, do you?

They don't have any control, they have a minority stake. They likely have influence, but what has their influence done?

Again, look at two other high profile acquisitions - Riot and Grinding Gear Games. Both continue to operate as they did before the acquisitions, there's no evidence to suggest that Tencent is taking a super hands-on approach with the western studios they buy/invest in.

Unless you have some evidence that suggests otherwise.

Yes they did. And do you know why? Because the Publishers didn't like the bigger discounts and the short frequency of the sales. And do you know who the Epic store caters to? Exactly, Publishers.

What?

You think big discounts won't be coming to the Epic store? And publishers are never, not once, obligated to put their games on sale. Valve has some sales requirements (that are usually waived for AAA titles anyways), but if a publisher doesn't want to put their game on sale, or on deep sale, they literally never have to.

[Dhrizzle]

The thing is Steam and WoW have a lot in common.

Lots of people was like (X will be the WoW killer) but honestly what hurt WoW was Time and the fact so many other MMO's popped up. The same thing is going to happen to Steam/Valve. The more little fish's that show up the more of the pie the big fish loses.

Gabe is going to sit on his hands and more stores are going to pop up to take a bite of the pie. Now we actually got a company who can put a major dent into Steam and yet Gabe is sitting there doing nothing.

All Gabe has to do is say 88% and EGS goes away and becomes the next Origin at best. Yet he hasn't and that shows how complacent he has became.

A company that is hungry is good for the consumer, Gabe/Valve isn't hungry.

I find this response odd when Gabe threw such a shit-fit over the Windows Store - starting work on their own OS (with blackjack and hookers!) and roping in a load of hardware manufacturers who ultimately got screwed over when Valve lost interest.

[Yriel]

What?

You think big discounts won't be coming to the Epic store? And publishers are never, not once, obligated to put their games on sale. Valve has some sales requirements (that are usually waived for AAA titles anyways), but if a publisher doesn't want to put their game on sale, or on deep sale, they literally never have to.

I would be really surprised if there will be sales or big discounts on Epic. In fact i would be willing to bet money that they won't do that.

[Yriel]

Why? They have been giving away games for free for awhile now, and pretty great games at that, Transistor, World of Goo, Subnautica, Slime Rancher...

That was advertisement and Epic paid the Publishers for those games. Do you think they'll pay them for their losses on sales, too?

[rhorle]

I would be really surprised if there will be sales or big discounts on Epic. In fact i would be willing to bet money that they won't do that.

They currently have a discount on the game Observation. The pre-purchase is listed at $24.99 and has a "you save" of $2.50 for a final price of $22.49. If they are already doing small discounts there is no reason to believe that they won't have sales or other discounts in the future. Even other sellers are doing their own version of the steam annual sales. It is almost an industry standard at this point. Though given they are trying to change the industry standard they could very well forgoe those major sales for smaller more "normal retail" ones.