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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    Why is this such a shock to people, they seem to forget that Maiev tried to assassinate Tyrande and Malfurion at one point. Night Elves losing faith in Elune after that much tragedy isn't even a small problem.

    Where is your goddess now high priestess? Where is she while your people burn along with your tree?
    Because it still makes no sense for them to unite with the Horde who actually DID the genocide instead of for example breaking away from both factions and seeking revenge their own way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    "As for Sira and Delaryn being raised and joining the Forsaken, that was a “very deliberate choice,” according to Danuser. The team wanted to show various aspects of the Night Elves, as opposed to presenting them as a monolith. We should expect to see them return, too, he says: “These characters are important to the Night Elf culture.”"

    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/15/18...s-of-vengeance


    See, there's nothing about mind control here : Night Elves suddenly yelling "FOR DA HORDE", and loving their genociders is just some "aspect of the Night Elves".
    And thats bloody fucken ridiculous. So they wanted to showcase some kind of split in the society not by actually making night elfs oppose Tyrande or Malf or Alliance as a part of it and having a say and such but by breaking up, making an 180 turn on their own ideals and joining the Horde to genocide Alliance and other night elfs. Nice.
    P.S.
    And how the hell are they important to the night elf culture if they abandoned everything and basically adopted Scourg/Thalassian ranger culture all the way to their outfits? They exatly that - non part of the culture.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    Why is this such a shock to people, they seem to forget that Maiev tried to assassinate Tyrande and Malfurion at one point. Night Elves losing faith in Elune after that much tragedy isn't even a small problem.

    Where is your goddess now high priestess? Where is she while your people burn along with your tree?
    That comparison is completely dumb. Maiev tried to make a coup for the sake of the Night Elves. She didn't side with Horde in order to genocide them just after they killed her.


    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Because it still makes no sense for them to unite with the Horde who actually DID the genocide instead of for example breaking away from both factions and seeking revenge their own way.

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    And thats bloody fucken ridiculous. So they wanted to showcase some kind of split in the society not by actually making night elfs oppose Tyrande or Malf or Alliance as a part of it and having a say and such but by breaking up, making an 180 turn on their own ideals and joining the Horde to genocide Alliance and other night elfs. Nice.
    P.S.
    And how the hell are they important to the night elf culture if they abandoned everything and basically adopted Scourg/Thalassian ranger culture all the way to their outfits? They exatly that - non part of the culture.

    This is what bugged me as well : They already had the inner conflict served on a silver platter with Maiev and her watchers who opposed Tyr/Malf for being the humans lapdogs.
    Last edited by eurojust; 2019-05-02 at 06:23 PM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    That comparison is completely dumb. Maiev tried to make a coup for the sake of the Night Elves. She didn't side with Horde in order to genocide them just after they killed her.

    This is what bugged me as well : They already had the inner conflict served on a silver platter with Maiev and her watchers who opposed Tyr/Malf for being the humans lapdogs.
    And also having them join Horde devaluates their possible message/protest/opposition to Tyrande and current NE course simply because they openly joined an enemy and now no linger represent night elfs.

  4. #64
    It could be a way of introducing a new class. The Nightborne are re-colored Night Elves, and the Void Elves are re-colored Blood Elves. And gameplay always wins over story.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Yes, yes and Sylvanas was pissed off at blood elfs and killed them willingly for Arthas. No? Really? Must have being some kind of a mistake then.
    Blizzard could have EASILY done without those lore-breaking, edgy shits. They only added them to mentally torture Alliance (night elfs specifically) players and further mock a race and faction. There is no narrative “need” for them nor a reason for them to exist.
    Implying that Arthas and Sylvanas resurrection techniques are the same when they're not.
    Seriously, if even Sylvanas Val'kyrs state they join freely, you have to kill spirits that don't accept the ress, and you know no undead opposed Arthas right after rez and all the undead risen in WC3 were due to necromancy and plagues instead of Valkyr... your argument is kinda shit.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthiasVonTzeskagrad View Post
    Implying that Arthas and Sylvanas resurrection techniques are the same when they're not.
    Seriously, if even Sylvanas Val'kyrs state they join freely, you have to kill spirits that don't accept the ress, and you know no undead opposed Arthas right after rez and all the undead risen in WC3 were due to necromancy and plagues instead of Valkyr... your argument is kinda shit.
    Oh yea the "special Valkyr rez" which makes you willingly become undead and join the side of your killer.
    Man the Valkyrs really outsmarted Ner'zhul and Kel'thuzard on this one!

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    "As for Sira and Delaryn being raised and joining the Forsaken, that was a “very deliberate choice,” according to Danuser. The team wanted to show various aspects of the Night Elves, as opposed to presenting them as a monolith. We should expect to see them return, too, he says: “These characters are important to the Night Elf culture.”"

    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/15/18...s-of-vengeance


    See, there's nothing about mind control here : Night Elves suddenly yelling "FOR DA HORDE", and loving their genociders is just some "aspect of the Night Elves".
    I have no words for this... how do you come even up with these ridiculus ideas?

  8. #68

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthiasVonTzeskagrad View Post
    Implying that Arthas and Sylvanas resurrection techniques are the same when they're not.
    Seriously, if even Sylvanas Val'kyrs state they join freely, you have to kill spirits that don't accept the ress, and you know no undead opposed Arthas right after rez and all the undead risen in WC3 were due to necromancy and plagues instead of Valkyr... your argument is kinda shit.
    Scourge served Arthas because of mind control. When they got free and formed Forsaken they cahsed him all the way to Northrend and Sylvanas even killed herself after he was dead since she saw no reason to exist after her vengeance was complete so much she hated him. Delaryn and Sira? Insta love. See the bullshit here, right?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    She hasn't brainwashed the dark rangers, they're just evil because Blizzard doesn't understand human motivation and/or for the cheap twist where they reveal that they were just pretending to be retarded. Personally I'm hoping the latter because I swore I'd buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't betray Sylvanas at the end of this.

    But yeah, Derek wasn't MC'd, he was tortured while the dark rangers told him the objective truth lies like how the Horde killed his dad and his sister let them do it. If he were MC'd he wouldn't have been able to have a change of heart. The Dark Rangers are similarly free-willed hence why the Val'kyr comments about how there's no willing souls nearby and why some become wisps and attack you.
    The quest is not really explicit about it. It just says that some (most) spirits will not be able to be raised no matter what. It does not say at all that those who cannot resist will not be controlled. If you read the flavor text of the toy that this quest rewards: https://www.wowhead.com/item=166678/brynjas-beacon it almost certainly means that they ARE controlled against their free will.

    Also, speaking about Sylvanas not even being there. What about Tyrande? She is supposed to be one of the most powerful individuals on Azeroth now with the connection to Elune enabling her to understand truths hidden to her before. Yet she does not tell us anything. She does not fight in the Darkshore Warfront. Se is not in the worldzone of Darkshore either. She is NOWHERE. The only thing she does in voice worldquests out of limbo.

  11. #71
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    i see we are back to bitching about Sira and Delaryn again.
    no explanation will make you happy about it so just stop it.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    The quest is not really explicit about it. It just says that some (most) spirits will not be able to be raised no matter what. It does not say at all that those who cannot resist will not be controlled. If you read the flavor text of the toy that this quest rewards: https://www.wowhead.com/item=166678/brynjas-beacon it almost certainly means that they ARE controlled against their free will.

    Also, speaking about Sylvanas not even being there. What about Tyrande? She is supposed to be one of the most powerful individuals on Azeroth now with the connection to Elune enabling her to understand truths hidden to her before. Yet she does not tell us anything. She does not fight in the Darkshore Warfront. Se is not in the worldzone of Darkshore either. She is NOWHERE. The only thing she does in voice worldquests out of limbo.
    That's not really surprising : It's WoW Tyrande we are talking about.
    And yea it's free will, (you can read the interview and the writers) hence why the Horde don't care about it. However when Sylv mind control Derek, there you see the forsaken, etc. loosing their shit.

  13. #73
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    I want to be mad at it but I just cant bring myself to care anymore. I'm kind of just limping along with this expansion to see how it ends. The sad part is I -want- to like it but I just can't get over the constant NE taunting going on. The undead angle works even less than the supress/conquer angle did. But I am still holding out the last sliver of hope with the original intent of the Night warrior being to usher the souls of the dead to their afterlife maybe Tyrande can wash clean all the undead somehow big rolling blast as she releases the power yada yada something.

  14. #74
    Fantastic! I thought they would remain in Darkshore as an one time thing.

    Actually, is weird to not see another Alliance races, or not faction aligned races, being turned into the Undeath to serve the Forsaken, for whatever reason. Knowing that Nathanos is not shy in the use of the Val'kyr.

    For me, is not hard to believe that the more "assholes" and "selfish" of the Night elves, and any race really, could ask or agree to be resurrected, not matter who serve, considering that the alternative is remain dead.

    Races aren't monolith. Is unrealistic imagine ALL of them as honorable and kind people. After all, we have seen evil Night elves before. For example: the Druids of the Flame.

    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    Oh yea the "special Valkyr rez" which makes you willingly become undead and join the side of your killer.
    Man the Valkyrs really outsmarted Ner'zhul and Kel'thuzard on this one!
    Well, they have a lot more experience in necromancy than Ner'zhul and Kel'thuzad. For thousands of years at least.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnwho View Post
    Fantastic! I thought they would remain in Darkshore as an one time thing.

    Actually, is weird to not see another Alliance races, or not faction aligned races, being turned into the Undeath to serve the Forsaken, for whatever reason. Knowing that Nathanos is not shy in the use of the Val'kyr.

    For me, is not hard to believe that the more "assholes" and "selfish" of the Night elves, and any race really, could ask or agree to be resurrected, not matter who serve, considering that the alternative is remain dead.

    Races aren't monolith. Is unrealistic imagine ALL of them as honorable and kind people. After all, we have seen evil Night elves before. For example: the Druids of the Flame.



    Well, they have a lot more experience in necromancy than Ner'zhul and Kel'thuzad. For thousands of years at least.
    Because their people just got bloody genocided by the Horde and they JOIN them. This is an insult added to the injury all to please people like you who thrive in suffering of other part of the playerbase and satisfy yet more of Danuser’s insane power fantasies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    i see we are back to bitching about Sira and Delaryn again.
    no explanation will make you happy about it so just stop it.

    If they are mind controlled then i would have zero issue with that and be content with the situation.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Because their people just got bloody genocided by the Horde and they JOIN them. This is an insult added to the injury all to please people like you who thrive in suffering of other part of the playerbase and satisfy yet more of Danuser’s insane power fantasies.

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    If they are mind controlled then i would have zero issue with that and be content with the situation.
    so its fine as long as it shits on forsaken lore?

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    so its fine as long as it shits on forsaken lore?
    And is it fine as long as it shits on night elfs? Not like sylvanas is above mind controlling her victims (see Derek).

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Because their people just got bloody genocided by the Horde and they JOIN them. This is an insult added to the injury all to please people like you who thrive in suffering of other part of the playerbase and satisfy yet more of Danuser’s insane power fantasies.
    Chill out man, my Gods. You know Danuser is not a Forsaken in real life, don't you? Me neither.

    I'm not "thrive in suffering of other part of the playerbase". What in the actual hell? The Night elves are my favorite race in the Alliance.

    Did you read the part where I wrote "evil Night elves"? That is what I think is happening with this new breed of Forsaken. This... Forsaken Kaldorei... are the worse of worse of the Night elven society. They just want "to live" again. Not matter who serve. They don't wanna remain dead. Simple as that.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And is it fine as long as it shits on night elfs? Not like sylvanas is above mind controlling her victims (see Derek).
    derek was never mind controlled and was never going to be mind controlled.
    Elune chose to save Malfurion over the rest of the night elves. I have no problems with Sira and Delaryn turning against those who still believe in elune.
    Night elves always get shit on. I dont like it either but whatever.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    For specific characters, it makes absolutely no sense that characters like Sira and Delaryn suddenly going from hating Sylvanas and the undead to "We love her"
    It totally does make sense though. They were forsaken by Elune which obviously automatically makes them the Forsaken. Because Night Elves apparently don't comprehend capital letters or something along those lines. Perfect representation of multiple facets of Night Elven culture right there.
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