1. #1

    Should M+ be balanced separately?

    Just like how PvP is balanced separately from raids, do you think that M+ should be balanced separately from raids too? The damage patterns and skills needed are tremendously different between the two forms of content. It's like trying to fit a square piece through a circle hole. Perhaps this would give the devs more freedom to balance M+ without having to worry about raids.

  2. #2
    Blizzard will never do it.To much work.
    It begins with absence and desire.It begins with blood and fear.It begins with....

  3. #3
    Why and how?

    You can already swap talents and traits that are useless in raids and vice versa. Why should your character be different between the two types of instanced pve content.

    There are specs that are good in one and worse in others. Or would you want blizz to buff/nerf classes weekly for the affixes too? Outlaw was horrible before reaping, now it can shine. So is demo lock and others. The scene always changing, it's much simple to balance the dungeons around classes. I guess you are Just salty that your Spec is not top5 currently.

  4. #4
    Because PvP and raids are so amazingly balanced - 9 locks on Uunat, pvp having more complaints than actual players.

  5. #5
    Where does it stop?
    In theory we could have a base class/spec design and then War mode-like systems for Raids and Dungeons that are separate to each other. Customize your character for the content they do.

    But is that in any way fun? How much of that would be done by stripping classes further?

    The solution is not further differentiation, it is taking a step back to MoP design and letting all specs be reasonably competent at all basic tasks, with much smaller degrees of difference. Because focusing on strengths inevitably means that in any case where you strength is called for you will be better by default and when your particular "niche" is half the raid encoutners in the game or almost every Dungeon then you are just flavour of the month.

  6. #6
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    if anything blizzard need to increase the class design/balance team a lot, and keep doing balance constantly, i absolutely despise the blizzard team so much, i legit hate them, they are clueless af regarding some classes, and they dont even contact theorycrafters.

    "bALaNCe iS dONe foR tHIs PAtCh, if yOUR clASs sUXs, sorRRY foR U, iF yOuR clASS is oP, eNJoy" Pepega

    they really need to keep buffing nerfing specs across the patch, instead of "wait for next patch", i am legit at the verge of quitting wow because my specs actually suck badly, even though i love wow, if your class do not function right, u gonna hate anything in the game.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Just like how PvP is balanced separately from raids, do you think that M+ should be balanced separately from raids too? The damage patterns and skills needed are tremendously different between the two forms of content. It's like trying to fit a square piece through a circle hole. Perhaps this would give the devs more freedom to balance M+ without having to worry about raids.
    Optimally, yes.

    We see a big difference of the performance in raids and M+ as the latter focus a lot on trash clearing. And of course different utilities excels in different environments. Shroud isn’t very useful in raids

    Maybe they could start by making talents more fitting for different content. Currently a lot of specs use the same talents in all situations which doesn’t make much sense.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaon View Post
    if anything blizzard need to increase the class design/balance team a lot, and keep doing balance constantly, i absolutely despise the blizzard team so much, i legit hate them, they are clueless af regarding some classes, and they dont even contact theorycrafters.

    "bALaNCe iS dONe foR tHIs PAtCh, if yOUR clASs sUXs, sorRRY foR U, iF yOuR clASS is oP, eNJoy" Pepega

    they really need to keep buffing nerfing specs across the patch, instead of "wait for next patch", i am legit at the verge of quitting wow because my specs actually suck badly, even though i love wow, if your class do not function right, u gonna hate anything in the game.
    I particularly enjoy when the last content patch is released and they do 0 class balancing until pre-patch so if your class happens to suck then you're screwed for 6-12 months.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaon View Post
    if anything blizzard need to increase the class design/balance team a lot, and keep doing balance constantly, i absolutely despise the blizzard team so much, i legit hate them, they are clueless af regarding some classes, and they dont even contact theorycrafters.

    "bALaNCe iS dONe foR tHIs PAtCh, if yOUR clASs sUXs, sorRRY foR U, iF yOuR clASS is oP, eNJoy" Pepega

    they really need to keep buffing nerfing specs across the patch, instead of "wait for next patch", i am legit at the verge of quitting wow because my specs actually suck badly, even though i love wow, if your class do not function right, u gonna hate anything in the game.
    That's working as intended. If your class/spec sucks, then that means Blizzard wants you to reroll and try something else. Remember when they flat out told us in WoD they didn't want us doing demo locks?

    So it's not "Blizz sucks because they can't balance things", it's "Blizzard doesn't want things to be balanced."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    That's working as intended. If your class/spec sucks, then that means Blizzard wants you to reroll and try something else. Remember when they flat out told us in WoD they didn't want us doing demo locks?

    So it's not "Blizz sucks because they can't balance things", it's "Blizzard doesn't want things to be balanced."
    yeah then they hit you with the "Pikachu Surprise Face" when subs go downhill, even when the game is full of content, class being good actually matters a lot, thats why people loved Legion and are hating on BfA, even though they are literally clones in content, hell BfA have more.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Because PvP and raids are so amazingly balanced - 9 locks on Uunat, pvp having more complaints than actual players.
    12 locks now. 8D

  12. #12

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vapo View Post


    I mean, what balance?
    World first race means nothing with balance though. 0.01% (Ok it's not that but stick with me.) better class will still be stacked to high heaven for guilds that are pushing world first and shouldn't be used as an example. It's the every day guilds where examples should come from where your average person is playing. Then if there's major differences (let's face it there is but not as big as people act) then there's proof of problems.

    Then again trying to balance 26 dps specs is basically impossible.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaon View Post
    yeah then they hit you with the "Pikachu Surprise Face" when subs go downhill, even when the game is full of content, class being good actually matters a lot, thats why people loved Legion and are hating on BfA, even though they are literally clones in content, hell BfA have more.
    I wish I could remember the exact name of that logical fallacy, but I can't so I'll just describe it. Did you really try to use the "information nobody knows therefore it can't be proven that it isn't bad" fallacy on me?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Because PvP and raids are so amazingly balanced - 9 locks on Uunat, pvp having more complaints than actual players.
    A 10 year member but still this naive. I'll break it down for you. Cutting edge compositions mean absolutely nothing to you or I, because we will never be in situations where what makes those compositions matter over any other one come into play.

    I was talking with a friend of mine some time ago, who felt that he'd been lied to because he saw that boomkins were dominating in the super high keys in the tournament (a couple ago I think) and it wasn't panning out the same for him. I had to point out that, among other things, mobs weren't living long enough in the 10s he was doing to be worth the multi dotting that the guys in the tourney were doing with mobs living much, much longer.

    In short, don't look at what Method is doing, because they are for all intents and purposes playing a different game than you and I are.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    World first race means nothing with balance though. 0.01% (Ok it's not that but stick with me.) better class will still be stacked to high heaven for guilds that are pushing world first and shouldn't be used as an example. It's the every day guilds where examples should come from where your average person is playing. Then if there's major differences (let's face it there is but not as big as people act) then there's proof of problems.

    Then again trying to balance 26 dps specs is basically impossible.
    It's impossible to pefectly balance, but they should make a continous effort. In past expansions they used to make balance hotfixes much more frequently, but now it seems like they don't care as much, and often let specs rot for months till they fix it.

  16. #16
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    I think there should be separate gear for Raids and M+. Yes, it's extra bagspace, but it SUCKS that I, who hate M+ with all my heart, feel forced to try to do it anyway to gear efficiently for the raids.

    Make it so that gear that drop in raids have a mark on them simply called "Raid" and gear that drop in M+ has a mark called M+. If you war any M+ gear you can't enter a raid , you simply get a text "cannot enter with M+ gear" and if you wear any Raid gear you can't start a M+ key.

    Any other gear, from Warfront, WQ, regular Mythic dungeons etc etc can ofc be used it both.

    This way we can keep them separated and not force M+ers into raids and Raiders into M+. If you want to do both, feel free,you just need some extra bagspace.

    Besides, it's not just about gear. How many times have you not played with someone who is like 410+ and who is garbage at the raid cause he or she geared through M+, but got invited due to good gear, and the same in M+, how many good geared raiders have entered M+ and are clueless?

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