I hate this fucking expansion. I really do.
I hate this fucking expansion. I really do.
"You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."
Sylvanas should have beheaded him on the spot. The same goes for Saurfang. It would add gravity instead it is idiotic story for absolute dumbfucks.
Vol'jin literally begs the Alliance for their support and admits he can't do it without them when the Alliance player meets him and calls him on his bluff. The Darkspear were all effectively suppressed by a single battalion of Kor'kron in a previous quest and required Thrall to bail them out and we see right after what happens when they try to attack the gates of Orgrimmar.
No Alliance means no SoO.
@Nymrohd
You don't understand. Sylvanas is playing 7-dimensional underwater backgammon. Allowing her political opponent and his Alliance backers a stronghold in Thunder Bluff outside her jurisdiction during a total war is just part of her plan, just like allowing Derek to be freed and freeing Baine himself by killing her own troops for him.
Just gas this faction already.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
You mean this one? (Lines separated for readability)
..Honestly, I ignored it because I figured it mostly debunked itself, but if you insist, here goes...
1.) Since he decided Sylvanas was worth standing up to, obviously, at which point anyone doing the same is worth preserving.
2.) Not every action in a given category is interchangeable, you know? Just because he's been doing it in other circumstances, doesn't mean he thinks it's the right course in all of them.
3.) Since it became clear the blood elves are stuck with the Horde for the time being.
..And if you meant the one where you complain about Baine 'infecting' Lorthemar with Anduin's ideology.. Then you're essentially just getting mad with the idea of characters being opposed to Sylvanas, and / or being interested in peace, but other than that, yes. You're right. He is coming around to an ideology more on the 'Anduin' side of the spectrum.
Or if you meant the one about 'dissent against the warchief', then I'd just like to correct that to 'dissent against Sylvanas', in which case you might actually be correct (ish). He isn't advocating for some kind of 'perpetually overthrow the Warchief' government.
Oooor if you meant the very last paragraph, with the 'literal traitor' comment, then just skip down to the next bit.
..What was I cherry picking, again?
Ah.. That's conveniently ignoring ideas like unjust laws, the reasons why you may have killed your compatriots, who the 'enemy' is, what your 'nation' is, the nature and requirements of loyalty, the precedence of your duties, who is accountable for what, who is responsible for what, and yet more besides. -You're basically advocating the idea that the Warchief's perspective is universal, which is.. Ridiculous.
So I don't really want to walk you through these one by one, because you ought to be able to shake them out on your own, but let's go with a nice, easy example: A man of political power declares himself independent from his sovereign government. He will no longer obey orders from its rightful leaders. Further still, he signs away some of his nation's sovereignty, allowing a foreign power's armed forces to occupy what parts of it he influences. This places the citizens living there in danger, because this man is Henrik Kauffmann, a representative of the Danish government during World War 2, ignoring the orders of his country's legitimate government in order to prevent the Nazi occupation of its colony of Greenland.
Is he a traitor? The answer is: It depends on who you ask. That's literally always going to be the answer, so your use of 'He's a traitor therefore Lorthemar shouldn't care about him' has absolutely no basis, or relevance, until you can present the reason why Lorthemar, in particular, would think he's a traitor. -Which, at the current time, it seems pretty clear he either (And this one seems most likely) doesn't think he's a traitor, or considers him the lesser evil.
Oh boy, I sure love how they turned the belfs into total scum. Cause there's nothing like teaming up with the enemy to kill your friends and family.
Yeah, blindly following evil genocidal maniacs isn't a good position to be judging anyone from.
The "just following orders" defense didn't save anyone at Nuremberg. As you said, being a traitor doesn't make you a bad guy. In this case, the bad guys are the ones "just following orders" to torch Night Elf city-trees, butcher farmers in Stormsong Valley and pin them to walls in front of their children, and murder Forsaken for wanting to be reunited with their families.
Last time I was checking WoW is a game where my character has killed over 300k living things (most humanoid) since Legion release and eating their souls afterwards so I don't think the Nürnberg trials mean anything to anyone in this context. Just wait to see all the "following orders" Horde members will be cheered up by Tyrande after the Sylvanas raid.