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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Let's give them back their money so that they can buy their insurance the way they were buying it before the ACA - which worked perfectly well and was cheaper and better for them, because they could shop around and make decisions that suit them best.

    The losers here would be those who currently get subsidized by others.
    And there will still be lots of people without insurance because they're only working part-time or simply can't afford it - regardless of what you hear about this "roaring" economy. I mean even with some plans today, medical bills can still put a lot of families in financial trouble because insurance won't cover most of the costs. We need healthcare plans that takes that concern away and why you're hearing that ideas like Medicare for All are becoming more popular. But to just take away healthcare from millions of people without leaving a replacement is basically saying, "you're on your own" and telling them, "if you're not rich, you're screwed."

    For a country that loves to brag about being the best in the world, we surely do a terrible job of taking care of its people.

  2. #62
    Good. Anyone who supports the ACA supports a one-party state considering a political party shoved it down our throats.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by omerome View Post
    And there will still be lots of people without insurance because they're only working part-time or simply can't afford it - regardless of what you hear about this "roaring" economy. I mean even with some plans today, medical bills can still put a lot of families in financial trouble because insurance won't cover most of the costs. We need healthcare plans that takes that concern away and why you're hearing that ideas like Medicare for All are becoming more popular. But to just take away healthcare from millions of people without leaving a replacement is basically saying, "you're on your own" and telling them, "if you're not rich, you're screwed."

    For a country that loves to brag about being the best in the world, we surely do a terrible job of taking care of its people.
    Well, yes, those who currently get subsidized by others will be worse off. That's the point. You are trying to shame everyone with it, but that's not a good argument. I get that this is a touchy subject, especially now after ACA got implemented, but things like ACA create huge inefficiencies and in the end everyone is worse off on average because of them.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    You must really hate car insurance.
    Car insurance is to protect other drivers, not yourself. Also, not everyone drives or has to drive. But since you want to compare car insurance to ACA, lets do that

    Under the ACA car insurance program, you wrecked your car without insurance, so you go out and pick up car insurance and they are forced to pay to repair your wreck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    It did happen. Why do you think the Democrats won the House?
    Let me flip it on you

    Under Obama after they passed the ACA, why do you think the Republicans won the house?

    Here's a hint, neither answer involves Obamacare.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Healing Rain View Post
    Good. Anyone who supports the ACA supports a one-party state considering a political party shoved it down our throats.
    Your one-liners could at least pass for decipherable sentences before, even if they were woefully wrong or misguided.

    Guess all the years playing the contrarian fool finally made you into a real one.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  6. #66
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Why ACA happened? Because it fit the dems agenda on all counts - a big populist thing which produces lots of votes from those who get benefits, tons of money to redistribute, tons of things to regulate. That was a power grab.
    Spoken like someone with zero knowledge of the situation of healthcare in America prior to the ACA. It was not in fact "okay", as it was fairly common for people to go into bankruptcy owing to medical expenses even while being insured - to say nothing of the fact that while insurance was "cheaper", this refers to junk plans that are not allowed under the ACA precisely because they are junk.

    The problems with the ACA are problems inherent with a primarily for-profit healthcare sector, and the public is starting to understand that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Let me flip it on you

    Under Obama after they passed the ACA, why do you think the Republicans won the house?
    Because the ACA as it was passed was unpopular owing to it being a watered down compromise combined with the GOP hatchet campaign? You're acting like people's opinions can't change over time.

    Here's a hint, neither answer involves Obamacare.
    Healthcare was cited as the principle driver behind the majority of voters in the last midterm, so no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #67
    Live look at zenkai


    The hilarious part of all this is that the ACA has been net popular since Trump took office.
    https://www.kff.org/interactive/kff-...ble&aRange=all

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Spoken like someone with zero knowledge of the situation of healthcare in America prior to the ACA. It was not in fact "okay", as it was fairly common for people to go into bankruptcy owing to medical expenses even while being insured - to say nothing of the fact that while insurance was "cheaper", this refers to junk plans that are not allowed under the ACA precisely because they are junk.

    The problems with the ACA are problems inherent with a primarily for-profit healthcare sector, and the public is starting to understand that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because the ACA as it was passed was unpopular owing to it being a watered down compromise combined with the GOP hatchet campaign? You're acting like people's opinions can't change over time.



    Healthcare was cited as the principle driver behind the majority of voters in the last midterm, so no.
    Historically the house flips majority in midterms after a presidential election. GOP hatchet campaign lol, maybe it's because Obama lied and said you could keep your plan and your doctors with ACA or the fact everyone's premiums skyrocket

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Historically the house flips majority in midterms after a presidential election. GOP hatchet campaign lol, maybe it's because Obama lied and said you could keep your plan and your doctors with ACA or the fact everyone's premiums skyrocket
    Not everyone. I was paying United Healthcare $2,400 a month pre-ACA because of my wife's neurological condition (which is hereditary). Last year, just before she switched to Medicare, we were still only paying $1,500 per month for Sharp. We never qualify for the subsidy, but the "no pre-existing condition" clause of ACA was a life saver. I shudder to think what our premium increases would have been in the last 10 years without ACA.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Live look at zenkai


    The hilarious part of all this is that the ACA has been net popular since Trump took office.
    https://www.kff.org/interactive/kff-...ble&aRange=all
    You have won the internet today!

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Let's give them back their money so that they can buy their insurance the way they were buying it before the ACA - which worked perfectly well and was cheaper and better for them, because they could shop around and make decisions that suit them best.

    The losers here would be those who currently get subsidized by others.
    The losers would be way more than just those who get subsidized.

    I can tell you never brought insurance on the open market as an individual or small group prior to the ACA.
    It was neither cheap or better and you could shop around just as well as you can now.

    Just the mess on what was covered made it tons worse then the ACA. Not covered, Pre-Existing, Lifetime limits, etc etc.....most people did not have the education and often got screwed on policies they thought would cover them fully.


    BTW You do know you can buy individual insurance plans all on your own right now, right???
    You know you don't need to use the ACA exchanges right?
    Go check out what you can get then compare it to the ACA, even without subsidies. Good luck not paying 20-40% more for the same benefits as an individual looking for a policy.

    ACA just allows you to get plans that are negotiated for large groups, thus they can be cheaper for individuals.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Historically the house flips majority in midterms after a presidential election. GOP hatchet campaign lol, maybe it's because Obama lied and said you could keep your plan and your doctors with ACA or the fact everyone's premiums skyrocket
    I would love for someone who quotes this could show me where in the ACA it forbids you from keeping your doctor. Just once....I am sure the question will not be answered this time either.

    The ACA also continued to allow your doctor the freedom of choosing which plans, which patients to keep/participate in.
    As prior to the ACA, insurance companies were allowed to exclude any doctor, drop any doctor from their networks.
    Nothing changed from pre-ACA.
    Why the outrage now, because of one speech?
    Hell when you switch to Medicare at 65 you most likely will have to switch doctors, where is the outrage???

    But somehow its the ACA fault and not your doctor or insurance plan?


    As for your plan, also you got to keep your plan they just needed to meet the federal requirements on minimum coverage.
    Instead of doing this they chose to drop the plans and create/convert people to new ones.

    This is no different than the 30+ states that already had pre existing laws on the books where plans either had to be changed in order to be sold. Before pre existing there was state mandated mental health benefits, contraception, well care visits, etc etc etc. This has been happening since the 80's but some reason now its a horrible thing, something new...…outrage outrage outrage !!


    Also if for 4 years the rate of which your premium increased 9-11% then the next 4 years the rate of your premium increases only 4-6% have you saved money? All while receiving additional benefits, unlimited lifetime maxes and pre-existing protection.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Car insurance is to protect other drivers, not yourself. Also, not everyone drives or has to drive. But since you want to compare car insurance to ACA, lets do that

    Under the ACA car insurance program, you wrecked your car without insurance, so you go out and pick up car insurance and they are forced to pay to repair your wreck.
    Not true in the least bit.

    Go try right now to sign up for an ACA plan on the exchange.
    Lets pretend you just had a major surgery and you have no coverage (just like you just wrecked your car today).
    If you had emergency 50,000-500,000 dollar surgery today, good luck getting insurance coverage without fraudently claiming something in order to get a hardship approval.




    Oh what's that??
    Open enrollment is over you say???
    You need to qualify for a hardship which does not include being sick/hurt/needing/having/had medical/surgical care???

    So The vast vast majority of people will have to wait till Nov to enroll and Jan 2020 for coverage.
    Even if you claim something like a divorce, your policy will not retroactively pay for services already rendered.


    So how do you expect the ACA to pay after the "car wreck"???

    We have been over this before in other threads.
    Here educate yourself on the fallacies of your words

    https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage-...llment-period/

    Since the 2019 Open Enrollment Period is over, you can now enroll in or change a Health Insurance Marketplace plan only if you have a life event that qualifies you for a Special Enrollment Period.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Let's give them back their money so that they can buy their insurance the way they were buying it before the ACA - which worked perfectly well and was cheaper and better for them, because they could shop around and make decisions that suit them best.

    The losers here would be those who currently get subsidized by others.
    The fact you think that money would buy them decent health insurance is laughable. You know they can still buy insurance right? Nothing is stopping them from doing so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    Yep. I'm 44, had insurance my entire lifetime. Bitched about it. Then had surgery a couple years ago. Bill would've been $250K. I paid $400. I don't bitch about insurance anymore.
    Yep, I had a hernia surgery last year and I would have paid $40k+ (I don't remember the exact number, maybe over 140k, iono) but I only paid $700. Anyone that thinks they don't need insurance is just asking for bankruptcy.

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  14. #74
    I'd like the ACA to be dismantled.

    To have a proper first world healthcare system put in its place.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I'd like the ACA to be dismantled.

    To have a proper first world healthcare system put in its place.
    That won't happen with the current administration.

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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    That won't happen with the current administration.
    Probably won't happen any time soon. Too many retards think it's literally communism and they'll get shipped off to Siberia.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Probably won't happen any time soon. Too many retards think it's literally communism and they'll get shipped off to Siberia.
    Or be put into a death camps.

    Funny now Trump technically has those death camps, but instead it's not about old people it's brown children.

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    That was a power grab.
    pfffftftftftftf......pfft

    what does that matter? how is Trumps wall any different in that regard? at least with Healthcare its doing something that ACTUALLY helps people instead of being some multi billion dollar security blanket for idiots.

  19. #79
    We paid $6,000 for my wife experimental surgery (50/50 chance it would work) in 2012 and I consider it a good deal. We had to do the surgery out of network at Barnes - Jewish Hospital in St. Louis with the approval of our insurance. The option was either for the neurosurgeon to come to San Diego or we come to him. We figure the second option is easier. During the pre-op, we were introduced to multiple doctors that came just to witness the procedure. Without insurance the cost would have been close to 500k. Would a pre-ACA insurance company cover that? Doubtful. Without insurance it will probably never would have happened, and there will be one data point missing for the procedure.

  20. #80
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    what does that matter? how is Trumps wall any different in that regard? at least with Healthcare its doing something that ACTUALLY helps people instead of being some multi billion dollar security blanket for idiots.
    Obama didn’t wait until GOP got back control of Congress. Had it pass a bipartisan committee, with a vote by a Republican, Olympia Snowe.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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