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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    With regards to the bold, it's necessarily combined with an unwillingness to consider and implement social reforms to address the underlying socioeconomic factors contributing to that increased criminality.

    Western Europe and Canada and Australia don't all have lower rates of criminal offense, and particularly violent offense, by accident. And there's really nothing about the USA's circumstances that provide any insurmountable expectation, here.

    And it isn't that those nations have stricter penalties for crime. Pretty typically, the opposite.

    You need to be willing to discuss and implement policy to address underlying socioeconomic factors if you really want to address the problem of crime. This isn't a wild hypothesis; it's standard policy practice pretty much everywhere.


    As for police culture in particular, there seems to have been a shift among American police forces from seeing themselves as serving and protecting their communities, to approaching crime as a "war" against the "enemy", said "enemy" being that same community, or at least sections of it that are indistinguishable from the rest.

    In Canada, if I get pulled over by a cop while driving, he's going to saunter up, tap on my window, we'll have a conversation, he might give me a ticket, that's pretty much it. In the USA, the officer usually approaches weapon drawn, and is in many cases ordering the civilian to step out or show their hands or the like; it's presumed to be a violently hostile situation. That shift in approach matters. It means civilians are, quite rightly, afraid of the police, rather than seeing them as protectors. It means every interaction with an officer starts out negative, and is likely to get worse. It means that not only do the police see the people as their enemy, the people see the police as an enemy. Wrap that up and let it cook for 50 years, and you get the modern United States.
    While i'm not fan of LEOs for personal reasons, this is you lying. Stop lying.
    "It doesn't matter if you believe me or not but common sense doesn't really work here. You're mad, I'm mad. We're all MAD here."

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianus View Post
    The Militarization of your Police Force is just a byproduct of the 393 million http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/filea...ms-Numbers.pdf Firearms that are in the Wild in the US basicaly, its a response because of the paranoia of getting or getting not shot every day on your job.
    There's also the point that the US police force is one of the main recruiters of soldiers post service. There's whil papers on transitioning from military service to law enforcement as it was/is seen as a natural fit. This seemed to start after Vietnam when Alot of soldiers demobbed and needed work and the war on drugs really kicked off.

    Up side is it gave them work and they were all ready firearms trained.

    Downside is they took the same militaristic approach to things. Which isnt the right way, criminals arn't some foreign fighters and orders shouldn't blindly be followed.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    That's weird, there's another image from that era that stuck in my mind. I wonder why.
    Probably because you expected to see American policemen in this thread, and those classy gentlemen with sideburns are actually Canadians

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    In Canada, if I get pulled over by a cop while driving, he's going to saunter up, tap on my window, we'll have a conversation, he might give me a ticket, that's pretty much it. In the USA, the officer usually approaches weapon drawn, and is in many cases ordering the civilian to step out or show their hands or the like; it's presumed to be a violently hostile situation. That shift in approach matters. It means civilians are, quite rightly, afraid of the police, rather than seeing them as protectors. It means every interaction with an officer starts out negative, and is likely to get worse. It means that not only do the police see the people as their enemy, the people see the police as an enemy. Wrap that up and let it cook for 50 years, and you get the modern United States.
    What complete and utter bullshit.

  5. #85
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neocount View Post
    This has not been my experience or the experience of any of my friends (among which there is a good mix of ethnicities). I've had several encounters with police over the years and I have never once had a weapon drawn on me or have seen police behaving with anything other than professionalism. One even talked about surfing with me while I was living in Florida. People's perceptions are seasoned by what we see in the media. I suspect those incidents, while numerous, are still a relatively small portion of the total police and community interactions which surely number in the tens of thousands every day.
    Maybe, I'll freely admit I'm talking about what I see officers saying in the news and my own personal experiences when traveling through the US. The latter is admittedly highway patrol, maybe that's different.


  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Maybe, I'll freely admit I'm talking about what I see officers saying in the news and my own personal experiences when traveling through the US. The latter is admittedly highway patrol, maybe that's different.
    You have had a police draw their gun on you while traveling in the USA?

    I have been pulled over probably 6-8 times by police. Received 2 speeding tickets and been required to do sobriety tests twice. Not once have I ever had a weapon drawn on me or ever for a second thought my life was at risk. I was just chatting to my coworkers here, and of the 6 of them (2 of them poc), not a single one has had a weapon drawn or ever been afraid of the police while being pulled over. You seriously need to stop watching the news to get your facts about police.

  7. #87
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghotihook View Post
    You have had a police draw their gun on you while traveling in the USA?
    Yep. Pulled over for speeding on the highway, cop had his weapon drawn as he approached. It was pointed at the ground, but it wasn't holstered, either.


  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by ghotihook View Post
    You have had a police draw their gun on you while traveling in the USA?

    I have been pulled over probably 6-8 times by police. Received 2 speeding tickets and been required to do sobriety tests twice. Not once have I ever had a weapon drawn on me or ever for a second thought my life was at risk. I was just chatting to my coworkers here, and of the 6 of them (2 of them poc), not a single one has had a weapon drawn or ever been afraid of the police while being pulled over. You seriously need to stop watching the news to get your facts about police.
    i've had police draw their weapons on me two times in my life. Once was when a group of my friends and I, as tourists in washington DC, made a wrong turn at night and ended up on an authorized vehicles only road that lead to the CIA headquarters. About 5 Cop cars and some military personal with guns drawn surrounded our car. It was fairly exciting. The only other time was in a british airport...dont fuck with their luggage carts is the lesson i learned.
    "It doesn't matter if you believe me or not but common sense doesn't really work here. You're mad, I'm mad. We're all MAD here."

  9. #89
    Yes, because American police in the '50s were such delicate flowers of tender love and care, strong sense of justice and paragons of societal fairness...

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In Canada, if I get pulled over by a cop while driving, he's going to saunter up, tap on my window, we'll have a conversation, he might give me a ticket, that's pretty much it. In the USA, the officer usually approaches weapon drawn, and is in many cases ordering the civilian to step out or show their hands or the like; it's presumed to be a violently hostile situation. That shift in approach matters. It means civilians are, quite rightly, afraid of the police, rather than seeing them as protectors. It means every interaction with an officer starts out negative, and is likely to get worse. It means that not only do the police see the people as their enemy, the people see the police as an enemy. Wrap that up and let it cook for 50 years, and you get the modern United States.
    Wtf? xD Where does this happen? I have been stopped with my sister and friends a few times in USA but not once did they have their weapons drawn. I've asked her if she has ever seen what you describe and she hasn't.

  11. #91
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by De thuong View Post
    Wtf? xD Where does this happen? I have been stopped with my sister and friends a few times in USA but not once did they have their weapons drawn. I've asked her if she has ever seen what you describe and she hasn't.
    Can't recall if it was in Virginia, WV, or Pennsylvania; it was somewhere along that stretch of my last trip through the USA. It's been a few years.


  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    Should American police work harder to attract a more classy recruit?

    Should we enforce more hair in the police dress code?
    More hair? Thats what you've come up with?

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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In Canada, if I get pulled over by a cop while driving, he's going to saunter up, tap on my window, we'll have a conversation, he might give me a ticket, that's pretty much it. In the USA, the officer usually approaches weapon drawn, and is in many cases ordering the civilian to step out or show their hands or the like; it's presumed to be a violently hostile situation. That shift in approach matters. It means civilians are, quite rightly, afraid of the police, rather than seeing them as protectors. It means every interaction with an officer starts out negative, and is likely to get worse. It means that not only do the police see the people as their enemy, the people see the police as an enemy. Wrap that up and let it cook for 50 years, and you get the modern United States.
    What a load of shit. I have never had a gun drawn on me ever when stopped by the police. Heck I was stopped at a sobriety check point with several people in the car and 6 officers surrounding my car when one of the officers shinned a light in the back of my suv and yelled gun when they saw my paintball gear in the back. Even when one of my less than bright friends went to reach for my paintball gun to show them it was not a real gun not one of the 6 officers drew their weapon. A few put their hands on their weapons and yelled not to move but the guns were never drawn. After everything calmed down and everyone realized what was going on we all had a good laugh about it and went on with our lives.


    If you got pulled over and they approached with weapon drawn(I really don't believe this happened) you must have done something epically stupid to have that occur.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Altrec View Post
    What a load of shit. I have never had a gun drawn on me ever when stopped by the police. Heck I was stopped at a sobriety check point with several people in the car and 6 officers surrounding my car when one of the officers shinned a light in the back of my suv and yelled gun when they saw my paintball gear in the back. Even when one of my less than bright friends went to reach for my paintball gun to show them it was not a real gun not one of the 6 officers drew their weapon. A few put their hands on their weapons and yelled not to move but the guns were never drawn. After everything calmed down and everyone realized what was going on we all had a good laugh about it and went on with our lives.


    If you got pulled over and they approached with weapon drawn(I really don't believe this happened) you must have done something epically stupid to have that occur.
    "I had a good run-in therefore no bad ones exist"

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    In Canada, if I get pulled over by a cop while driving, he's going to saunter up, tap on my window, we'll have a conversation, he might give me a ticket, that's pretty much it. In the USA, the officer usually approaches weapon drawn, and is in many cases ordering the civilian to step out or show their hands or the like; it's presumed to be a violently hostile situation. That shift in approach matters. It means civilians are, quite rightly, afraid of the police, rather than seeing them as protectors. It means every interaction with an officer starts out negative, and is likely to get worse. It means that not only do the police see the people as their enemy, the people see the police as an enemy. Wrap that up and let it cook for 50 years, and you get the modern United States.
    how man times has this happened? what were you pulled for??? i've been pulled at least 10 times never had a weapon drawn, nor has anyone i know. the weirdest i had was at 3 am for 45 in 35, and he had place my hands in view outside the car open the door from the outside and walk to his car... was a quick sobriety check he told me.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    1950s



    present



    Where did this shaved head bs come from?
    https://newrepublic.com/article/1416...ior-philosophy

    Should American police work harder to attract a more classy recruit?

    Should we enforce more hair in the police dress code?
    The "Shaved head" bs comes from grooming standards. Most departments require men to have short hair ie. short enough that you cant really grab and pull, no beards, only mustaches and women to wear their head tight in a bun. Though some depts are loosening and becoming more liberal. There's an officer safety componnent to it, namely that if the hair is short, it cant be grabbed or pulled in a struggle. If you can control the head, often the rest of the body follows. Add in that at a certain age your hair thins, like mine, so eventually you just embrace it and shave it completely.

    Though i wish i could have a goatee. Just a mustache makes most men, myself included, look like they should be on the sex offender registry. Just fugly.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    how man times has this happened? what were you pulled for??? i've been pulled at least 10 times never had a weapon drawn, nor has anyone i know. the weirdest i had was at 3 am for 45 in 35, and he had place my hands in view outside the car open the door from the outside and walk to his car... was a quick sobriety check he told me.
    i think the anti cop propaganda is working as intended. the vast majority of cops are fine and sensible folks...but the constant reminder that a small % of them are not has ended up with everyone thinking those few are the norm.
    "It doesn't matter if you believe me or not but common sense doesn't really work here. You're mad, I'm mad. We're all MAD here."

  18. #98
    It really depends on the culture in an area more than police culture. I think that overall police have a good reputation (the "pig cops" ethos is relatively small), but in conservative areas they REALLY like cops and they get a lot of power there. People will side with the police 99.9% of the time.And you know what they say about power, it corrupts. It lets bad cops off the hook far too often.

    This influence of culture wasn't really apparent to me until moving to liberal areas from conservative areas, and now living in a liberal area but now working in a slightly more conservative one.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    "I had a good run-in therefore no bad ones exist"
    I have had nothing but good run ins not just one, and that is true for the vast majority of people. Then again I didn't say that no bad ones exist but you knew that. I just don't buy Endus traveling to the US and just happens to have a gun pulled on him by the police. And even if he had one bad run in doesn't make this statement "the officer usually approaches weapon drawn, and is in many cases ordering the civilian to step out or show their hands or the like" true. So take your nonsense argument somewhere else because it is just as much a load of crap as Endus's more than likely exaggerated/fabricated story.

  20. #100
    Understand that, when baby boomers grew up, it was common practice for police in the United States to shoot -to -kill fleeing suspects. You flee, you die.

    I am not entirely sure what the OP is romanticizing, but I question if it ever existed.

    Example: https://www.nashvillepublicradio.org...rberates-today

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