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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    "Great respect"?


    We can't. They never expressed any desire to train anyone else.
    Yes. Made them high ranked officers,

    They have trained their own in the dark arts.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  2. #382
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I'm sure they could try that, but...

    It diminishes the class identity with Titan tech. Like you said, people want to play as Mekkatorque in a suit. Mekkatorque achieved his greatness all on his own, creating his own devices and his own technology. He didn't repurpose Titan tech to get where he is. That isn't the fantasy that I signed up for. I want the scrappy tech-based explosives-wielding Tinker that we see in Warcraft 3, and to an extent Heroes of the Storm. I don't want to see that diminished by having Titan Power be the reason why suddenly important. That's not fulfilling the fantasy of playing a Mekkatorque or a Gazlowe. I mean, this is one step away from the Azerite macguffin.
    The repurposed tech doesn’t have to be clean or even look like titan tech. You could have a warframe that looks like Mekkatorques mech and still be a warframe that utilizes titan tech. It could be something as simple as a weapon system that harms Old Gods, to a device that prevents a warframe pilot from being corrupted by whispers.

    I have a feeling they regret a lot of things. Massive sub loss being one of them. If they want to regain those subs, they need a concept that hits it out of the ballpark. IMO, Titan-Tinkers isn't one of those concepts.
    Tinkers are a very popular concept though. That MMOC poll posted earlier is proof enough of that.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    Yes. Made them high ranked officers,
    Because every military-like structure needs higher and lower ranked officers. Respect is one thing, but "great respect" is another thing entirely.

    They have trained their own in the dark arts.
    Key words put in bold for you.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
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  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because every military-like structure needs higher and lower ranked officers. Respect is one thing, but "great respect" is another thing entirely.


    Key words put in bold for you.
    Depends entirely on the organization. Yeah, I think he greatly respected them, it is not beyond Illidan.

    So? Engineers too are training our own. But only few become tinkers, sof ar only gnomes and goblins I think.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    Depends entirely on the organization. Yeah, I think he greatly respected them, it is not beyond Illidan.
    Doesn't make it canon, though. Illidan never demonstrated anything resembling "great respect" for anyone other than Tyrande and Malfurion. And Velen at the end.

    So? Engineers too are training our own. But only few become tinkers.
    You're begging for a definition that does not exist.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Tinkers are a very popular concept though. That MMOC poll posted earlier is proof enough of that.
    But what you're suggesting isn't a Tinker any more by popular definition. It's not widely accepted that Tinkers would be using Titan tech. So if you're gonna change the identity of the class, then I don't think you can apply the Tinker name to this.

    I voted for the Tinker and I don't agree with Titan tech being used. Maybe you should try a new poll and see?

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Doesn't make it canon, though. Illidan never demonstrated anything resembling "great respect" for anyone other than Tyrande and Malfurion. And Velen at the end.


    You're begging for a definition that does not exist.
    He did greatly respect more entities than that. Respect is not a sympathy after all.

    It exists within this universe.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    He did greatly respect more entities than that.
    Entities like...?

    Respect is not a sympathy after all.
    What?

    It exists within this universe.
    Care to point where, then?
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  9. #389
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    But what you're suggesting isn't a Tinker any more by popular definition. It's not widely accepted that Tinkers would be using Titan tech. So if you're gonna change the identity of the class, then I don't think you can apply the Tinker name to this.
    It’s widely accepted that Tinkers are inventors, and we already have an example of a Goblin inventor repurposing Titan tech, so what’s the problem? This is really no different than Iron Man using nano-tech for his suit in Infinity War. It’s still Iron Man, he’s just using a different tech for his later suits. Who’sto say that Goblins and Gnomes don’t discover titan tech in mechagon and it leads to the new warframes? Anything is possible really.

    I voted for the Tinker and I don't agree with Titan tech being used. Maybe you should try a new poll and see?
    I don’t see anything being different. In the end, it’s just lore to justify gameplay and story. Heck, we don’t know if Mekkatorque didn’t use Titan tech for his current warframe. Blackfuse was dabbling in all sorts of crazy stuff and Mekkatorque took at least some of his plans.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2019-05-15 at 09:15 PM.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Entities like...?


    What?


    Care to point where, then?
    Kil'jaeden, Sargeras etc.

    That.

    No longer canon RPG that still provides us lore.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It’s widely accepted that Tinkers are inventors, and we already have an example of a Goblin inventor repurposing Titan tech, so what’s the problem? This is really no different than Iron Man using nano-tech for his suit in Infinity War. It’s still Iron Man, he’s just using a different tech for his later suits. Who’sto say that Goblins and Gnomes don’t discover titan tech in mechagon and it leads to the new warframes? Anything is possible really.
    So if Demon Hunters get written to tap into Old God powers since we've already defeated the Demons and they continue to crave power, would you accept this addition to their identity? Would you be accepting if Paladins started discovering Shadow magic? If Mages began tapping into Necromancy because that's how Kel'thuzad got his start?

    You're suggesting that an established class concept can tap into an alternate source of power as if it isn't a big deal. Yet the source of power is integral to the identity of the class itself. So if you are hand-wavy about something like this, then we may as well start giving Mages some Necromancy spells and give Shamans some Old God magic. What's the problem?

    I'll just say that whatever you're suggesting with Titan tech, I disagree with it. #notmyTinker.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    Kil'jaeden, Sargeras etc.
    You're mistaking contempt with respect.

    No longer canon RPG that still provides us lore.
    So it doesn't exist.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You're mistaking contempt with respect.


    So it doesn't exist.
    No, he did respect them.

    It does. Also such titles are used in the game.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  14. #394
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So if Demon Hunters get written to tap into Old God powers since we've already defeated the Demons and they continue to crave power, would you accept this addition to their identity? Would you be accepting if Paladins started discovering Shadow magic? If Mages began tapping into Necromancy because that's how Kel'thuzad got his start?

    You're suggesting that an established class concept can tap into an alternate source of power as if it isn't a big deal. Yet the source of power is integral to the identity of the class itself. So if you are hand-wavy about something like this, then we may as well start giving Mages some Necromancy spells and give Shamans some Old God magic. What's the problem?

    I'll just say that whatever you're suggesting with Titan tech, I disagree with it. #notmyTinker.
    Yeah those are really bad comparisons. Shadow is the opposite of Holy, so Paladins would never use it. Necromancy is forbidden among mages, and there’s huge penalty for using it among mage society, so a mage wouldn’t use it. Etc.


    Titan tech and Goblin/Gnome tech are both forms of technology. Why would a Goblin or Gnome inventor not use it if it’s available?
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Titan tech and Goblin/Gnome tech are both forms of technology. Why would a Goblin or Gnome inventor not use it if it’s available?
    Because it's one step away from being magic, if not already magic. Most titan tech is magic imbued, mind you.

    https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/10974937520 I mean just look here. Most people pretty much look at this as magic, rather than tech. When you look at Valanyr, you don't think of Tinkers do you?

    When you say why would they not use if it's available, then it's because the common identity we associate as Tinkers does not rely on magic. Because it is available does not mean it should become a part of their class identity. All our classes can use that technology without it being folded into their class identity, and that's how all Titan Tech should be regarded.

    Besides, we're not talking about a Titan tech class. We're talking Tinkers, right? So if I said Tinker, would you say Titan Technology is what immediately comes to your mind? If not, then it's not a solid concept.

    Demon Hunters would not be the same if they started tapping into Old God powers, wouldn't you agree?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2019-05-15 at 10:01 PM.

  16. #396
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because it's one step away from being magic, if not already magic. Most titan tech is magic imbued, mind you.
    Yeah, but its not magic, its tech. Also Draenei/Naaru tech is similarly exotic, yet you had no issue with that.

    https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/10974937520 I mean just look here. Most people pretty much look at this as magic, rather than tech. When you look at Valanyr, you don't think of Tinkers do you?
    Okay, but once again it's not magic, its tech, and we already have an exampIe of a Goblin inventor repurposing it, pretty much proving that it is tech.

    When you say why would they not use if it's available, then it's because the common identity we associate as Tinkers does not rely or use magic. I mean why wouldn't a Mage use technology? Well they could and they do. But it doesn't mean it should become a part of their class identity.
    And again, Titan technology is not magic. Calling it something it's not over and over again wont change that fact.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

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  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    No, he did respect them.
    Then show me the lore passages where Illidan shows any respect toward Kil'Jaeden and Sargeras. Because, as far as I recall, all Illidan has ever demonstrated was contempt and hate toward those two.

    It does. Also such titles are used in the game.
    At best, as synonyms. At no point in the game's lore either title is shown to be any different than the other.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Then show me the lore passages where Illidan shows any respect toward Kil'Jaeden and Sargeras. Because, as far as I recall, all Illidan has ever demonstrated was contempt and hate toward those two.


    At best, as synonyms. At no point in the game's lore either title is shown to be any different than the other.
    When he speaks about their prowess. Hate does not prevent respect.

    But this time it is connected to a lore, even if from an outdated book.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Shadow is the opposite of Holy, so Paladins would never use it.
    Priests do, and since paladins are literally "priests on plate", the connection is there. I'll also point you toward the Wrath of the Lich King reveal cinematic.

    Necromancy is forbidden among mages, and there’s huge penalty for using it among mage society, so a mage wouldn’t use it. Etc.
    Why not? Didn't stop other mages from doing it. Void is also forbidden by the blood elves... and we have void elves today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    When he speaks about their prowess. Hate does not prevent respect.
    He does not speak of those demons' power with respect. You do not need to respect someone to speak their deeds.

    But this time it is connected to a lore, even if from an outdated book.
    The RPG books are not "outdated", they're simply not canon.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Priests do, and since paladins are literally "priests on plate", the connection is there. I'll also point you toward the Wrath of the Lich King reveal cinematic.


    Why not? Didn't stop other mages from doing it. Void is also forbidden by the blood elves... and we have void elves today.

    - - - Updated - - -


    He does not speak of those demons' power with respect. You do not need to respect someone to speak their deeds.


    The RPG books are not "outdated", they're simply not canon.
    He does he does. He praises them even.

    Yes, outdated then. Of course it doesn't mean they don't borrow things from it, they do all the time.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

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