Alliance aggressors confirmed

[Candy Cough]

In 7.1.5 After Sargeras stabbed Azeroth, Gallywix was the first to know. His cane turned into a piece of Azerite. He knows this because of his previous knowledge from Kezan. "And no one knows about this?" Sylvanas asks. To which Gallywix replies "Don't worry warchief, I've got my boys on it."

"BuT ThE ExPloReRs LeAgUe WaS ThErE FiRsT AnD ThE EvUl HoRdE AtTaCkEd FiRsT!!" Wrong again.

The only mention of Silithus in military context in Elegy were Cordressa's report afterwards and Tyrande being sent there, which happens at the start of 8.0. The events of the 7.3.5 cinematic, which ended with Anduin ordering Shaw to get more SI:7 on Silithus issue happened at the very start of the book. Explorer's League is sent only around ~1/3rd into the book, after Anduin talked with Magni and then consulted what he learned from him with other Alliance leaders. There's nothing to suggest these are the same forces.

So in retrospect, we can already see that the Bilgewater Miners were there first. proceeded with the alliance sending a fleet transporting an army of night elves and Si7 Assassins harassing the workers.

"The crown has ordered SI:7 to infiltrate the goblin mining operation and collect any information we can find on this mysterious new substance. My agents have infiltrated the camp, but the clock is ticking and we need to get our hands on some extracted ore samples fast. In other words, I need someone who can take the direct approach."

And as seen in this quest text in-game, Anduin himself ordered the massacre upon the miners to retrieve the substance. Anduin only wants peace because as we see in the long run, the only ones who benefit from this is the alliance. Saurfang knows in "a Good war" that the Alliance could steamroll the Horde if it wishes, and that gap would only grow bigger as time went on.

So the "You're building war machines, of course we respond." First of all, you didn't even know what the Azerite was or what it was for before you started murdering the miners and analyzing it. Also, so what? The Horde has the right to defend itself. Did you people just forget how Greymane and Rogers annhilated the forsaken fleet at the start of legion with no consequences for their actions? If Anduin can't stop his subjects from attacking the horde, they need to do something to defend theirselves. Prehaps we should as you to dismantle the vindicator or ask Malfurion to go away?

[Wilfire]

It doesn't matter if we interpret the Alliance as aggressors. Blizzard intends for the Horde to be the aggressors and for the Alliance to be lawful good and morally right.

[mickybrighteyes]

It doesn't matter if we interpret the Alliance as aggressors. Blizzard intends for the Horde to be the aggressors and for the Alliance to be lawful good and morally right.

qft.

it doesn't matter that the 7th legion attacked first. It doesn't matter that the goblins set up shop first.

the writers ignored the events of legion and made the war of thorns instigated by Sylvanas and Saurfang the official start and therefore the horde are the aggressors for the events of BFA.

[Jastall]

It doesn't matter if we interpret the Alliance as aggressors. Blizzard intends for the Horde to be the aggressors and for the Alliance to be lawful good and morally right.

The point is more that the Alliance "started" a regional scuffle at best, while the Horde started the full-scale war with the invasion of NE lands, and then escalated the conflict beyond any reasonable proportions with the Burning.

"They started it so everything we do is justified!" is a silly position to take, and a quite impractical one as well. The Alliance isn't blameless, much as the writers are indeed trying to convince us, but that doesn't mean the Horde didndunuffin. We are definitely responsible for the current apocalyptic state of the war, or what would be an apocalyptic state if this were not an MMO that needs to keep running and thus won't let something as insignificant as a world war have actual consequences.

[Hubbl3]

It doesn't matter if we interpret the Alliance as aggressors. Blizzard intends for the Horde to be the aggressors and for the Alliance to be lawful good and morally right.

Don't think about it, just have fun! Like with most of recent media. Thinking about it too much sucks all the fun out of it. Just be mindless and have fun Like the writers intented it ;P

[Dellis0991]

Gallywix send peons to their deaths all the time.

[NPI]

Just go back to Outland, you can mine there whatever you want

[Verdugo]

Don't think about it, just have fun! Like with most of recent media. Thinking about it too much sucks all the fun out of it. Just be mindless and have fun Like the writers intented it ;P

Writers may be brainless but I dont think I can enjoy the shit they throw at us constantly.

[Shadowsgrace]

In 7.1.5 After Sargeras stabbed Azeroth, Gallywix was the first to know. His cane turned into a piece of Azerite. He knows this because of his previous knowledge from Kezan. "And no one knows about this?" Sylvanas asks. To which Gallywix replies "Don't worry warchief, I've got my boys on it."

"BuT ThE ExPloReRs LeAgUe WaS ThErE FiRsT AnD ThE EvUl HoRdE AtTaCkEd FiRsT!!" Wrong again.

The only mention of Silithus in military context in Elegy were Cordressa's report afterwards and Tyrande being sent there, which happens at the start of 8.0. The events of the 7.3.5 cinematic, which ended with Anduin ordering Shaw to get more SI:7 on Silithus issue happened at the very start of the book. Explorer's League is sent only around ~1/3rd into the book, after Anduin talked with Magni and then consulted what he learned from him with other Alliance leaders. There's nothing to suggest these are the same forces.

So in retrospect, we can already see that the Bilgewater Miners were there first. proceeded with the alliance sending a fleet transporting an army of night elves and Si7 Assassins harassing the workers.

"The crown has ordered SI:7 to infiltrate the goblin mining operation and collect any information we can find on this mysterious new substance. My agents have infiltrated the camp, but the clock is ticking and we need to get our hands on some extracted ore samples fast. In other words, I need someone who can take the direct approach."

And as seen in this quest text in-game, Anduin himself ordered the massacre upon the miners to retrieve the substance. Anduin only wants peace because as we see in the long run, the only ones who benefit from this is the alliance. Saurfang knows in "a Good war" that the Alliance could steamroll the Horde if it wishes, and that gap would only grow bigger as time went on.

So the "You're building war machines, of course we respond." First of all, you didn't even know what the Azerite was or what it was for before you started murdering the miners and analyzing it. Also, so what? The Horde has the right to defend itself. Did you people just forget how Greymane and Rogers annhilated the forsaken fleet at the start of legion with no consequences for their actions? If Anduin can't stop his subjects from attacking the horde, they need to do something to defend theirselves. Prehaps we should as you to dismantle the vindicator or ask Malfurion to go away?

Give a blue post, or a dev post, stating that your Opinion is Fact, or put a "?" at the end of your title.

[mickybrighteyes]

Ehm Before the Storms makes it clear that the Explorer's League made it to Silithus first,

The League was only referenced in the area AFTER Anduin and Co. are given a sample by Shaw who was only clued in on the interesting nature of the substance AFTER SI:7 noted increased goblin presence in Silithus. The book doesn't make use of out of sequence storytelling so the assumption should be that the league was sent into play after the goblins went in, drawing the attention of SI:7 and Anduin being informed....

[owbu]

The problem with BfA isn't that the Alliance is totaly blameless in everything (we also have the Legion attack, which would have been a far better justification because it's an Alliance ARMY actually attacking Sylvanas and her army on a mission to save the world), it's that the horde is just clearly being played by Sylvanas who turned some minor skirmish into a world war with nukes for some shadowy unrelated purpose.

It's not fun to fight a war based on a "well..we tell you what this is about later, but it's probably just your leader screwing you over!" premise. And no amount of "but the Alliance was technically not 100% acting like perfect little angles!" is going to change that. I want some real motivation to hate/want to fight the alliance, not something that wouldnt even exicte a lawyer.

[Feanoro]

Oh look, another "I'm desperate to paint Alliance as the villains" thread. Sorry, that's not what Blizz is writing whether anyone here likes it or not.

[Irian]

The minor problem with that is that the Alliance were intercepting the goblins from literally mining a giant wound that was actively killing the planet.

I'm not saying the story isn't stupid, but yeah, Alliance aren't exactly what I'd call the bad guys for trying to stop the Horde from acquiring magical superweapons at the cost of the entire planet. That action alone was enough to start a war without any provocation.

Besides, if you want to argue the whole "Alliance are the bad guys" route, the whole Stormheim story is a lot more morally muddy.

[Feanoro]

Besides, if you want to argue the whole "Alliance are the bad guys" route, the whole Stormheim story is a lot more morally muddy.

Oh believe me, we hear about Stormheim, Dalaran, and Taurajo all the bleeding time. They completely overshadow all the shit the Horde has done, don't you know.

Horde is written to be the drunken guy who tries to kill someone for bumping him and spilling his beer.

[Yarathir]

I guess that makes genocide okay.

[Varodoc]

Your argument doesn't make sense, just because 10 miners died in Silithus doesn't justify the extermination of thousands of fucking civilians.

[Nathasil]

It doesn't matter if we interpret the Alliance as aggressors. Blizzard intends for the Horde to be the aggressors and for the Alliance to be lawful good and morally right.

Almost.

It's more like that:
Blizzard intends for the Horde to be the ultimately successful aggressors who in the end get whitewashed because they were morally conflicted to some degree while burning children and for the Alliance to be the lawful good and morally right humiliated faction of teethless losers who may have the moral upper hand but come across as just whiny and pitiful while they get genocided and pushed out of their homeland again, again and again.

[Varodoc]

How does the Alliance come off as "whiny"? Lol, if anything it's the "MUH HONOR" crowd who comes off as whiny after endorsing Sylvanas' genocide of the Kaldorei.

[Nathasil]

How does the Alliance come off as "whiny"? Lol, if anything it's the "MUH HONOR" crowd who comes off as whiny after endorsing Sylvanas' genocide of the Kaldorei.

May be only my impression, but so far Delaryn and Anduin have been the only characters shown this expansion to actually cry.

[Varodoc]

May be only my impression, but so far Delaryn and Anduin have been the only characters shown this expansion to actually cry.

Thankfully Anduin rarely appears after the pre-patch while Delaryn is basically a Horde character now. To be honest, the Forsaken are much more annoying with their constant attempts to justify their crimes. "Waaah, our emissaries were killed 10 years ago, I guess we are justified in burning children alive. Waaah, our people were hunted by the Alliance even though our first act as an independent faction was fucking murder a Human grand marshal and his army funded by the Alliance. Waaah, the Alliance is secretly bad and they just cloak themselves in righteousness."