Trump pardons a US Army soldier convicted of murdering an Iraqi Man

[Thekri]

Story Here

This is absolutely stomach churning. The soldier in question was already paroled (Which I also disagree with), this is nothing more then endorsing the extrajudicial murder of unarmed civilians.

The context for those of you that don't want to read the article: 1LT Behenna's unit had been hit by a roadside bomb that killed several US Soldiers. The unit brought this Iraqi man in for questioning, determined they didn't have enough evidence to hold him, and let him go. 1LT Behenna went out by himself, found the guy, stripped him naked, shot him twice and left his corpse in the desert. He did not report this. A military court convicted him of murder and upheld conviction twice. Behenna has never showed any remorse, and accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

Now I have been over there, I do understand the temptation, I really do. It is incredibly frustrating to have to deal with due process in a war zone, but not snapping and murdering people is what makes us the good guys. This is one of the most disgusting presidential pardons I have ever seen, it is a grotesque assault on the military culture of accountability. It is just a dog whistle to those rapid fools that believe murdering brown people shouldn't be a crime.

[Breccia]

accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

Based purely on the evidence, I would suspect Behenna does not view it as such. He views it as "total exonoration!"

[Thekri]

Based purely on the evidence, I would suspect Behenna does not view it as such. He views it as "total exonoration!"

Well, sort of it is. Because the pardon doesn't send the message that he didn't do it. It sends the message that it is fine. Trump has discussed pardoning other cases like this too. Apparently he views it the Military's right to murder anyone they please in any Muslim country. Which is revolting.

It is going to take us a hell of a long time to recover our reputation from this shit.

[Breccia]

It is going to take us a hell of a long time to recover our reputation from this shit.

I'm no longer making shit up when I suggest Trump is trying to incite war with Iran to save his presidency. I'm citing evidence that he is. He's already moved warships to the Gulf region after unilaterally ending the Iran Nuclear Deal which Iran was complying with. Trolling for an extremist attack seems like a next appropriate step.

[Machismo]

This was an execution, plain and simple. There really wasn't even any gray area. He took him to that area, shot the dude, and acted like nothing happened.

And yes, this is exactly why people fucking hate Americans in many countries, because we try to justify this shit.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Behenna said it was in self defense.

Guess we'll never know.

I thought pardons were generally for low level offenses? Has it ever been used on murder convictions?

[luckydevours]

And then they wonder why people fly planes into their buildings

[Machismo]

Behenna said it was in self defense.

Guess we'll never know.

I thought pardons were generally for low level offenses? Has it ever been used on murder convictions?

Considering he had the gun leveled on the guy... the self-defense argument is bullshit. He kidnapped a guy, interrogated him, then shot him dead. After that, he left the corpse there, and didn't tell his command.

This is a bullshit pardon, and it's this administration condoning cold-blooded murder.

[Thekri]

This was an execution, plain and simple. There really wasn't even any gray area. He took him to that area, shot the dude, and acted like nothing happened.

And yes, this is exactly why people fucking hate Americans in many countries, because we try to justify this shit.

Agreed. This is some of the worst of the military culture. It made me sick to my stomach when I was in as well. Military Officers are protected even more then police are. Not a single Officer was ever charged in the Abu Gharab abuses, they pinned the blame on the junior soldiers, and even then it was a slap on the wrist for the horrors being done. This guy Trump pardoned was already out of jail. He has been since 2014, he saw less then 3 years in jail for this shit.

In any counter insurgency this sort of stuff happens. It is a natural human reaction to what we put Soldiers through. I worked very hard to keep my soldiers out of it, because yes, there were times they wanted to slaughter villages too. It is an absolutely nightmarish situation to be in. People are planting bombs everywhere, shooting from dark alleys, your friends are dying, and nobody will admit to being your enemy. Paranoia takes hold fast, and you "know" a lot more things then you can prove. I have sat down and drank tea with people I know killed people just the week before. But I couldn't prove it.

If you don't keep a handle on it, those frustrations boil over and atrocities start stacking up. Every single counter insurgency effort is rife with them, and the more the nation inflicting them ignores it, the worse it gets. You might hate Americans for it, but we are far from alone. The Chinese did it in Tibet, and are still doing it in Western China, in a far larger scale then we ever did in Iraq. The Russians have done it everywhere, all the European nations did it throughout the colonial period, and some of them still do it in Africa. America draws the hate because America is much more transparent about what happens. So I still stand by my position that America isn't worse then most countries in this area, but this pardon is a step in the wrong direction. If we don't keep our military under control they will do more of this, not because they are evil, but because they are human.

[Machismo]

Agreed. This is some of the worst of the military culture. It made me sick to my stomach when I was in as well. Military Officers are protected even more then police are. Not a single Officer was ever charged in the Abu Gharab abuses, they pinned the blame on the junior soldiers, and even then it was a slap on the wrist for the horrors being done. This guy Trump pardoned was already out of jail. He has been since 2014, he saw less then 3 years in jail for this shit.

In any counter insurgency this sort of stuff happens. It is a natural human reaction to what we put Soldiers through. I worked very hard to keep my soldiers out of it, because yes, there were times they wanted to slaughter villages too. It is an absolutely nightmarish situation to be in. People are planting bombs everywhere, shooting from dark alleys, your friends are dying, and nobody will admit to being your enemy. Paranoia takes hold fast, and you "know" a lot more things then you can prove. I have sat down and drank tea with people I know killed people just the week before. But I couldn't prove it.

If you don't keep a handle on it, those frustrations boil over and atrocities start stacking up. Every single counter insurgency effort is rife with them, and the more the nation inflicting them ignores it, the worse it gets. You might hate Americans for it, but we are far from alone. The Chinese did it in Tibet, and are still doing it in Western China, in a far larger scale then we ever did in Iraq. The Russians have done it everywhere, all the European nations did it throughout the colonial period, and some of them still do it in Africa. America draws the hate because America is much more transparent about what happens. So I still stand by my position that America isn't worse then most countries in this area, but this pardon is a step in the wrong direction. If we don't keep our military under control they will do more of this, not because they are evil, but because they are human.

Now I'm just waiting for them to try and turn around, and give him an honorable discharge, or even a fucking medal.

It's guys like this that made everyone's jobs harder. It's like when we dropped bombs on the wrong neighborhoods, and killed kids. The best way to make terrorists, is to act like a bloodthirsy tyrant.

I saw a fair amount of guys who had his mentality, but keeping one's emotions in check is paramount. Many of them who got out never let it go, and carry that hatred with them to this day. The war will never be over for those guy, and many will act out violently against innocent people. And yes, that's why there seems to be so many damn veterans joining/forming hate groups.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Considering he had the gun leveled on the guy... the self-defense argument is bullshit. He kidnapped a guy, interrogated him, then shot him dead. After that, he left the corpse there, and didn't tell his command.

This is a bullshit pardon, and it's this administration condoning cold-blooded murder.

Majority of Americans don't care about wartime killings of Iraqi or otherwise.

[sircaw]

The defense contended that Behenna was under an acute stress disorder as a result of the attacks on his platoon and that during the shooting he had acted in self-defense after Mansur lunged at him.[13] After less than three and a half hours of deliberation, the jury came back finding Behenna not guilty of making a false declaration and premeditated murder, but guilty of UCMJ Article 118, unpremeditated murder and sentenced to 25 years confinement.[2]

Acute stress disorder is a mental health condition that can occur immediately after a traumatic event. It can cause a range of psychological symptoms and, without recognition or treatment, it can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder.

It's wrong to kill people but these high stress conflict zones can have a terrible effect on peoples minds.

It would be great if we could just point the finger and say "Yer your a monster, lock him up for ever" but in reality i think its alot more complex than that.

[Machismo]

Majority of Americans don't care about wartime killings of Iraqi or otherwise.

That's because people like to be blissfully ignorant, and don't understand that this is exactly how terrorists are formed. The morality of many, many Americans should be put into question, which is the major failing of "patriotism." Their support of killing Iraqis is no different than a random Iraqi person's support of ISIS killing someone else. One would hope that people would strive to be better.

- - - Updated - - -

The defense contended that Behenna was under an acute stress disorder as a result of the attacks on his platoon and that during the shooting he had acted in self-defense after Mansur lunged at him.[13] After less than three and a half hours of deliberation, the jury came back finding Behenna not guilty of making a false declaration and premeditated murder, but guilty of UCMJ Article 118, unpremeditated murder and sentenced to 25 years confinement.[2]

Acute stress disorder is a mental health condition that can occur immediately after a traumatic event. It can cause a range of psychological symptoms and, without recognition or treatment, it can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder.

It's wrong to kill people but these high stress conflict zones can have a terrible effect on peoples minds.

It would be great if we could just point the finger and say "Yer your a monster, lock him up for ever" but in reality i think its alot more complex than that.

He still made a choice to be a murderer, regardless of how traumatized he was. Trump made a choice to condone that murder.

[Thekri]

The defense contended that Behenna was under an acute stress disorder as a result of the attacks on his platoon and that during the shooting he had acted in self-defense after Mansur lunged at him.[13] After less than three and a half hours of deliberation, the jury came back finding Behenna not guilty of making a false declaration and premeditated murder, but guilty of UCMJ Article 118, unpremeditated murder and sentenced to 25 years confinement.[2]

Acute stress disorder is a mental health condition that can occur immediately after a traumatic event. It can cause a range of psychological symptoms and, without recognition or treatment, it can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder.

It's wrong to kill people but these high stress conflict zones can have a terrible effect on peoples minds.

It would be great if we could just point the finger and say "Yer your a monster, lock him up for ever" but in reality i think its alot more complex than that.

I fully acknowledged that, if you read my post that is exactly what I said. This guy is not a monster, or at least he wasn't when he left for Iraq. This is a person that gotten broken by circumstance, snapped and murdered a guy. The problem comes when you pretend he did nothing wrong and don't hold anyone accountable for it. He was already out on parole, a pardon was absolutely disgusting.

You fight this by maintaining discipline and keeping your Soldiers rooted in morality, because this isn't how America is supposed to do business. It is how the Nazis did business.

Oh, and the self defense is bullshit. If you go out by yourself, kidnap someone, strip them naked, and point a gun at them; you don't get to then claim self defense when they lunge at you. I mean come on. And then he didn't report it afterwards.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Again, you'll find that the majority of Americans simply don't care that a suspected AlQuada member was killed in a warzone, especially when the circumstances around it are under question. Seems like Behenna was a good soldier otherwise.

[Thekri]

Again, you'll find that the majority of Americans simply don't care that a suspected AlQuada member was killed in a warzone, especially when the circumstances around it are under question. Seems like Behenna was a good soldier otherwise.

And that is exactly why Trump pardoned him. To feed his supporters who have a fucked up version of nationalism where murder is patriotic as long the victim is someone they don't like. The Army found him guilty, so the circumstances aren't under question, he was convicted of murder.

The pardon is just an endorsement of murder.

[Somewhatconcerned]

And that is exactly why Trump pardoned him. To feed his supporters who have a fucked up version of nationalism where murder is patriotic as long the victim is someone they don't like. The Army found him guilty, so the circumstances aren't under question, he was convicted of murder.

The pardon is just an endorsement of murder.

"White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders cited "broad support" for Michael Behenna, of Edmond, Okla., "from the military, Oklahoma elected officials, and the public" -- including 37 generals and admirals, along with a former Pentagon inspector general -- as the reason for Trump's clemency grant. Sanders also said Behenna had been a "model prisoner" while serving his sentence."

Not as clear cut as you make it seem. There was a lot of support for this.

[Machismo]

Again, you'll find that the majority of Americans simply don't care that a suspected AlQuada member was killed in a warzone, especially when the circumstances around it are under question. Seems like Behenna was a good soldier otherwise.

If that's actually the case, it points to a lack of moral compass on the part of Americans.

He kidnapped a guy, shot him, and left his corpse without saying a word. Other than being a cold-blooded murderer... he's great. People said the same shit about Ted Bundy.

In the end, this is simply pandering to those racists, and bloodthirsty Islamophobes.

[Thekri]

"White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders cited "broad support" for Michael Behenna, of Edmond, Okla., "from the military, Oklahoma elected officials, and the public" -- including 37 generals and admirals, along with a former Pentagon inspector general -- as the reason for Trump's clemency grant. Sanders also said Behenna had been a "model prisoner" while serving his sentence."

Not as clear cut as you make it seem. There was a lot of support for this.

Yes it is clear cut. Of course there is broad support from the military, they stick together like glue. That is the whole reason you can't encourage this. The military is fucking awful at holding its own accountable. That is why our sexual assault numbers continue to skyrocket. That is why Fat Leonard was able to bribe like 40 admirals for decades before someone finally blew the whistle. That is why no officers were ever charged for Abu Gharib, despite mountains of photographic evidence of rape, torture and murder.

Of course Behenna is a model prisoner, he is a intelligent professional soldier that fancies himself a moral man. He killed that man because he sincerely believes that person was responsible for the death of three of his soldiers. He very well might be right, I don't actually have much sympathy for the victim here.

But extrajudicial killing are murder. We cannot operate this way. His actions, and others like them have cost our nation dearly. We cannot win these wars with behavior like this. He disgraced himself, the military, and his nation. Of course the military wants a pardon for him, they don't like egg on their face. They want to pretend it is all ok, and that good humans don't become monsters in war.

[Deletedaccount1]

Yes it is clear cut. Of course there is broad support from the military, they stick together like glue. That is the whole reason you can't encourage this. The military is fucking awful at holding its own accountable.

You don't know what you are talking about.