Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Difference of opinion = trolling
    Posts
    334
    Let's just end free speech and give all power to the state. Clearly we are too infantile to make our own decisions. I want to be controlled. Thank you modern left for ushering in this Utopian dream.

    Disgusting

  2. #22
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    21,042
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Agreed, unfortunately, a good debate where honor is involved is dead...
    Debates are at best shit shows were two people use BS tactics to try and trap one another. Especially now since they are never good-natured.

    Ben Shapiro is a complete ass and while good at those linguistic kill shots, its mainly because he is a pussy who never picks a hard target.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет - Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics.

  3. #23
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    29,607
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Debates are at best shit shows were two people use BS tactics to try and trap one another. Especially now since they are never good-natured.

    Ben Shapiro is a complete ass and while good at those linguistic kill shots, its mainly because he is a pussy who never picks a hard target.
    Though I wonder if it was always like this, or as you note, is just now mostly all of it.

    I agree that mostly people try to outmaneuver each other now because we have no respect for each other anymore.

    But what of the people of the past, some of whom were truly honorable men, trying to get to some truth, instead of best the other.

    Are those days gone, has entropy won?
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  4. #24
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    21,042
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Though I wonder if it was always like this, or as you note, is just now mostly all of it.

    I agree that mostly people try to outmaneuver each other now because we have no respect for each other anymore.

    But what of the people of the past, some of whom were truly honorable men, trying to get to some truth, instead of best the other.
    I think the debate can happen, but its found in the pub and bar, and among friends, sincere friends. But its rarer now since politics has taken on an almost religious character for some. Friendships live and die by ideological litmus tests.

    My number of genuinely left-wing friends has dwindled IRL, largely because I started shifting to the right, or more aptly, wasn't down with the DNC and stayed to some extent true to the core of Occupy Wall Street and some other shit that formed my early ideas. As I became more of a radical, my centrist middling friends didn't like that I wasn't hip to Tumblr culture ect. I still have some of those old friends, but a few I lost contact with and I know why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет - Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics.

  5. #25
    I enjoy watching "High Influence" People debate. Since when one gets utterly crushed you can tell they weren't worth listening to anyway.

  6. #26
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    29,607
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I think the debate can happen, but its found in the pub and bar, and among friends, sincere friends. But its rarer now since politics has taken on an almost religious character for some. Friendships live and die by ideological litmus tests.

    My number of genuinely left-wing friends has dwindled IRL, largely because I started shifting to the right, or more aptly, wasn't down with the DNC and stayed to some extent true to the core of Occupy Wall Street and some other shit that formed my early ideas. As I became more of a radical, my centrist middling friends didn't like that I wasn't hip to Tumblr culture ect. I still have some of those old friends, but a few I lost contact with and I know why.
    *nod*, I agree. I hope you and your friends reconcile sometime in the future....
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    21,042
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    *nod*, I agree. I hope you and your friends reconcile sometime in the future....
    Eh, there are other reasons that friendship perished, and to be honest I'm not out to recover them. The door is open but we all also just have different lives and became different people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет - Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Yeah, because David all but called him an outright Nazi. Though the inference was made.
    That's the easiest way to lose a debate.

  9. #29
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    29,607
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    That's the easiest way to lose a debate.
    We can guess who won... or can we?

    Munk Debates blames ‘technical error’ for wrong results in Bannon-Frum faceoff
    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...m-faceoff.html

    Any way you cut it, the wrong person won.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  10. #30
    Debate doesn't work. It never did. What does work is assembling a group of people who are humble, hard working, and lack confidence and letting them sort things out.

  11. #31
    Old God I Push Buttons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    10,633
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Yeah, that's why public debates are stupid. Debating is literally a skill in itself. It doesn't matter who is right or who has science on their side, it matters who can talk faster, outplay, and trick their opponent. Ben Shapiro is good at this, which is why he constantly wants to debate people. He doesn't care about facts or ideas, he cares about making "libtards" look stupid.

    Think of literally the smartest person you know in the world.... and ask yourself how often they debated people publicly.
    Thomas Sowell

    Don't know if he is the smartest, but he's up there, and he debated people quite often back when he was more active in decades past.


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    We can guess who won... or can we?

    Munk Debates blames ‘technical error’ for wrong results in Bannon-Frum faceoff
    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...m-faceoff.html

    Any way you cut it, the wrong person won.
    Didn't watch so it is hard for me to judge but usually if it gets to the point where someone says "well but you are a Nazi" they have already lost.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    First, all glory to Slavoj Žižek. Second, that debate was wild given that Slavoj Žižek was basically feeding his follower's reactionary politics as Marxism. Which suites me, but it was delicious to watch. But in truth, most debate is a waste, especially between high end e-celebs mostly looking to dick measure.

    To copy what I wrote a few days before. Peterson is a man selling Christian theology without actually believing in Christ. Admirable, but mistaken. He is a "professional intellectual", so to speak. The West has its share of them. He has hardly a single original idea to him, everything he says or writes he took from others. I doubt he truly cares about Christianity, his wallet is his chief axiom, so to speak. Although for honesty sake, I will say that Zizek is of the same type. He sells the idea of a Marxist revolution, even though he knows that no Marxist revolution is coming or is even remotely feasible.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Thomas Sowell

    Don't know if he is the smartest, but he's up there, and he debated people quite often back when he was more active in decades past.

    Nah thomas sowell lied a lot he thought hong kong was right wing... He also thinks the reason black people do poorly is because they don't marry as often when it's a lot deeper. He hates minimum wage and unions. He is right about the minimum wage causing slightly higher unemployment. He is even correct that european countries don't have a minmium. but instead they have unions that neogtiate the minimum wage which leads more power to those idvisual because they can group up. The problem though is that if you remove minimum how are we going to keep up with inflation? He basically was so out of his depth on that arguement.

    I use to think he was super smart but nah the guy has really bad argument for financial issues and some social ones.
    Last edited by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen; 2019-05-05 at 06:50 PM.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Debating is literally a skill in itself. It doesn't matter who is right or who has science on their side, it matters who can talk faster, outplay, and trick their opponent.
    things ignorant people think.
    this is why logical fallacies exist as a collected set, cause they're supposed to be the foils for said emotive debating.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Endus Bot, here we come!
    You say that, but imagine a Machismo AI.

    "No u" "No u" "No u" "No u"

    ...oh wait, we already have one.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    I enjoy watching "High Influence" People debate. Since when one gets utterly crushed you can tell they weren't worth listening to anyway.
    it gets entertaining sometimes, but it's still informative either way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Thomas Sowell

    Don't know if he is the smartest, but he's up there, and he debated people quite often back when he was more active in decades past.

    Sowell makes alot of good points on economics, he can get the time and rates wrong but usually the factors he talks about do pan out in the way he forecast.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    Nah thomas sowell lied a lot he thought hong kong was right wing... He also thinks the reason black people do poorly is because they don't marry as often when it's a lot deeper. He hates minimum wage and unions. He is right about the minimum wage causing slightly higher unemployment. He is even correct that european countries don't have a minmium. but instead they have unions that neogtiate the minimum wage which leads more power to those idvisual because they can group up. The problem though is that if you remove minimum how are we going to keep up with inflation? He basically was so out of his depth on that arguement.

    I use to think he was super smart but nah the guy has really bad argument for financial issues and some social ones.
    These are not lies, they're not even falsehoods; you're not even representing him accurately.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Debate doesn't work. It never did.
    wrong.
    in so many ways.

  20. #40
    I mean, to a degree they have a point. Winning or losing a debate doesn't make the loser objectively wrong and the winner objectively right. Who can respond and think on their toes fastest in a quick situation doesn't equate to who's smarter.
    There are plenty of people who are excellent debaters but completely dishonest idiots. It's a measure of both confidence, knowledge, and quick wit. It's not a measure of honesty or integrity because the framework of a live debate means that things can't often be proven or disproven in the moment. The "secret" to debating is that you don't have to be right if you're aggressive and you throw around a lot of info that can't be disproven in the moment.

    With all that said I don't really agree with the article. Debate isn't bad and it can be a good way to push messages if the intent behind the debaters are good. The problem this article is trying to express isn't with the act of debating itself but with how much value people put on the debate itself and the obsession over "winning" and "losing" them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •