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  1. #41
    Weeb Queen Video Games's Avatar
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    Do you really think a small side project ravaged a bajillion dollar studio like that?

    knowing blizzard probably

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Cidzor View Post
    No. Completely separate teams. There were no resources diverted from BfA to work on Classic. BfA's problems have nothing to do with Classic.

    If anything, I think there's a chance that Classic may influence future expansions if it's very successful (ie, maybe some people in charge at Blizzard will take a good, hard look at why Classic is so successful and start changing their ways). But I think it's too late for Classic to affect BfA in such a way.
    Classic/vanilla was successful for a variety of reason and many of those are still around in WoW today. It was accessible. It didn't punish you for dying. It rewarded you for logging off. Instanced dungeons. Intuitive. Combat and movement flowed better than any other MMO out there at the time and still does today. The fact you could solo your way to level cap was huge. The biggest game before, EQ, which WoW surpassed in total players just weeks after launch, solo levelers would hit a wall and be required to group up due to the insane difficulties mobs presented.

    Many of those things were since copied by older and newer MMOs becasue they became industry standards, as well as many of the other QoL and accessibility improvements. The problem WoW had after WotLk was a world wide recession, a huge rise in MOBAs, tons of other competition, and the fact the majority of players only seemed to know about WC3 and left after Arthas was killed. Those along with trying new things to keep the game from being stale left sour tastes in people mouths.

    But the core that made the game popular is still there.

  3. #43
    BFA being bad is simply because of all the bad design decisions they made. It has nothing to do with a lack of resources.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I wonder, they did say it would take enormous resources to do classic... and if i remember Cata right, BFA is roughly the size of the 5 zones we got, but they managed to remake most of Azeorth as well, so they achieved so much more in Cata overall.

    What you guys think?
    Classic has a VERY small team of mostly database folks... there is/was nothing enormous about the project.

    The only thing affecting BfA is the current dev team led by Ion. They have been running the game int the ground since WoD...

    I'm all for trying to find "the next best thing" and moving away from things that don't work. But Blizzard has been throwing the baby out with the bath water for several years.

    Truth is, Ion has no idea how to make WoW better... he is firing shots in the dark to maybe hit on something good. In reality the REAL problem with WoW isn't what they have added so much much as what they have taken out. Yes things like LFR, Dungeonfinder, Titanforging, CRZ, and shared tagging have deeply hurt the game... but so has undermining the systems that made WoW great in the first place. It's been gone over countless times so I won't bother other than to mention a few... the importance of guild, group content actually requiring groups, server community/reputation, rarity of gear, importance of professions, depth of skills including the need for CC, mana management, eating and drinking, etc.

    It's easy to look at that list and see what was taken out... the social aspect, the reliance on other people to progress in game. Crucial in an MMORPG... modern WoW has morphed into an MMOARPG... and the whole massively multiplayer aspect is dwindeling to moderately multiplayer. IN fact, the game is becoming more of a massively solo player game wher eyou happen to see other people from other servers you can't really interact with.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    How many resources do you think would make BfA work? It's one bad decision after the other. If Ion has no idea what makes a game fun, unlimited resources wouldn't help him.
    IOn knows what makes a game fun. Just because you think it isn;'t fun does n ot mean everyone feels that way nor does it mean Ion doesn't know what makes a game fun.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Hey, good thing there's one single universally accepted idea of what the word "fun" means and this is shared by 100% of all players who've ever played WoW at any point in time, right?

    OT: No.
    According to some, probably. They have their definition of what is right and wrong and that their vision is the correct one. Everyone else is wrong or stupid or whatever.

  7. #47
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    Classic has a VERY small team of mostly database folks... there is/was nothing enormous about the project.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    The only thing affecting BfA is the current dev team led by Ion. They have been running the game int the ground since WoD...
    Ion is director for Classic.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    well both yes and no. I think alot of people will play classic, alot of people that played it back in the day and new ones. Whats changed for the veteran/older players now is that we cant commit the same amount of hours into it as back then. This means everything is going to go even slower than it did back then, so content will therefore be paced slow.

    If you have 10 hours to play today, you get pretty far in retail wow while leveling each week. 10 hours a week in classic? it will take months before you reach max level.

    Alot of people will play classic and they will do so for a long time. Its also the perfect game to play between content drought in retail. New stuff in retail? Better check that out for a while. Oh im done? Then I can go level my Paladin!

    Alot of people love warcraft and azeroth, classic will be enjoyed by alot of people for a long time.

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    One of the reasons they struggle now is probably because they tro to reinvent the game each xpac. Its not just new lvls, zones, quests, creatures and alot more, its also class and many other design decisions they want to try out thinking "this will be popular".

    They do it every xpac. Some fail, some are a success.

    Obviously BfA failed in many aspects. Theres lots of content there, but people just dont enjoy it.
    my opinion - classic will be like museum

    what i mean is majority of people will come from time to time but on very limited schedule.

    then eventually in 4-5 years they will level up all alts to max level to have a nice "pokemon" collection in classic.

    but 99,9% wont play it above leveling .

  9. #49
    Vanilla concepts won’t work in modern wow.

    Modern wow is about fast paced content consumption with fast gearing system.

    To slow down the game will piss off people.

  10. #50
    The only way Classic will end up affecting BFA is in allowing them to finish the BFA story in a way that softens the faction divide, because they can say "classic is there for you" for people that just absolutely refuse to play a game where people have even just the option to play together cross faction. Classic covers their ass to really change the modern iteration of the game, because the foundational (outdated) principles of classic will be preserved to be enjoyed in their own space.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemsa View Post
    Nope, in fact, classic its going to help WoW, in the way that Blizzard its going to revisited some older concepts that could work on retail.

    Sometimes, people need to see the past to understand the future.
    I thought this IMMEDIATELY too as Classic was announced.

    Classic will help retail, not only in subscription boosts, but possibly design philosophies being revisited.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    my opinion - classic will be like museum

    what i mean is majority of people will come from time to time but on very limited schedule.

    then eventually in 4-5 years they will level up all alts to max level to have a nice "pokemon" collection in classic.

    but 99,9% wont play it above leveling .
    yeah, I think alot of people will just treat classic as a side game. For pure leveling and enjoyment of the old wow world. I dont think the rush for max lvl and raiding will be prio number one, maybe in the start for some people.

  13. #53
    Classic doesn't need a lot of development.

  14. #54
    No, i dont think it has anything to do with Classic. Even if a small team had been moved from BfA to Classic (which i understand was absolutely NOT the case), it would have had no issues.

    BfA and its issues, in my eyes, are design decisions and directions, not the execution.

  15. #55
    The Patient Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    IOn knows what makes a game fun. Just because you think it isn;'t fun does n ot mean everyone feels that way nor does it mean Ion doesn't know what makes a game fun.
    Well he might know what makes a game fun, but that would make it worse, cause he sure isn't acting on that knowledge.

  16. #56
    Old God Low Hanging Fruit's Avatar
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    BFA had plenty of resources to be a good expansion. It probably had more than some of your memorable ones. Larger team, bigger budget, and less over head cost since it doesn't have to be put onto millions of discs, boxed, and shipped all over the damn world anymore (to a MUCH lesser degree). BFA, for me, felt like a Q&A departmental failure combined with lack luster community engagement during the testing period. Clearly beta for Blizzard has become more of a hype generating tool then an actual test and truthfully it bit them in the ass pretty hard this time. I say this because a lot of these problems could have been caught internally by their Q&A department. I am not sure if the department was forced to become "yes men" because it happens, A LOT, in companies or if it was just incompetence but it is clear they weren't hitting on all cylinders. Then the cherry on top is pretty much the beta testers pointed out all of the bigger problems pretty much on the opening moments of the beta or simply weren't allowed to test key systems enough due to them arriving way to late. It felt like the opening of the expansion to 8.1 was actually the beta testing phase. Complete disaster. Sad thing is I am sure by the time of the last patch they will have most of these problems worked out and it will be a damn good system. Want to know the problem with that though? 9.0 is going to launch and the whole system that was worked out will be in the shitter and the next disastrous system will be rolled out to be worked on for 18 to 24 months until its good and we toss that one in the dumpster as well.

    Got to break this cycle. Then WoW can move on. Until then I just go into it expecting WoD or BFA. If I get a Legion I can deal with it. But 1 for 3 is pretty sad odds on a franchise that shouldn't have a hard time knowing what is tried, true, and make at least decently good stuff on the regular.

  17. #57
    Over 9000! rhorle's Avatar
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    Yes and No. I am guessing they recruited for Classic rather then just taking away from existing teams. However the resources used for Classic could have been used for normal.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    not really, let's see why:

    classic will probably be released in the content gap between BFA and 9.0, naturally all expansions see a drop in subs during that transition, classic will keep some extra subs during that time, will bfa see a somewhat higher number of players leaving it after doing whatever they wanted to do in order to try classic? well maybe, but who cares

    by the time 9.0 with it's new shinies is released classic will be an exotic realm for exotic species, only a small number of dedicated players will remain, the rest of the flock will be back to normal, except some heroes who will play live during the action periods and keep slowly progressing a classic toon during content draughts

    that's what classic is basically: a filler for content draughts
    I agree with you in that I think thats what Blizzards plan is, to use Classic as filler. I think Classic will ultimately end up being more popular than retail and Blizzard will have to adjust. Having played both games extensively, imo Classic is clearly the superior game.

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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyfire14 View Post
    I thought this IMMEDIATELY too as Classic was announced.

    Classic will help retail, not only in subscription boosts, but possibly design philosophies being revisited.
    Yeah like GCD and aggro nerfs to tanks, that was the best. Everybody loves mechanics like waiting to press something or stop damaging something. On early beta aggro reduction was so stupid that warriors couldn't AoE without getting aggro on everything, and even today some tanks are unable to hold aggro in certains situations (for example, try holding a UH DK aggro with a bear on a massive pull, it's just impossible).

    Let classic stay in classic.

  20. #60
    It absolutely took resources from BFA.
    Looks like Ion and CMs etc are all involved with Classic, so idk WHO they hired or for what, but the forward facing positions are still all being handled by current employees, and that absolutely has had SOME impact.

    Who knows how much. Maybe a trivially small amount, or so much that it ended up causing the problems BFA had at the start.
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