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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by AIBot View Post
    High school, gymnasium, secondary school are the same thing, but they are focusing on different subjects. In gymnasium you are going to learn the basic subjects on a higher level. In highschool (for example IT High School) you are going to learn programming, networking, english and the basic subjects.
    Maybe "high school" seems confusing for you.
    In my coutry you start in elementary school (8 years) then you can go to secondary school/gymnasium/highschool (we call it "middle school") or vocational school (if you want to be a workman).
    After the final exam in highschool, if you earned enough points, you can apply for college/universities.

    I thought the same system works in Germany.
    In Germany, they ain't. Gymnasium is meant to prepare you for uni, these graduates would probably be kinda like college students coming out of their freshman year in the US. Since all our schools have some focus of some sort (technical, scientific, social sciences, languages, etc.) high school isn't the only one that focuses on IT. High school here really just combines the major secondary school types into a common school where your paths is decided in the same building rather than you switching an entire school to get the education you want.
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    I was always sad to me that math and especially physics are considered to be 'hard'.
    some people just aren't math minded. i was much better in history and english because i enjoy stories.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  3. #103
    I am Murloc! Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIBot View Post
    High school, gymnasium, secondary school are the same thing, but they are focusing on different subjects. In gymnasium you are going to learn the basic subjects on a higher level. In highschool (for example IT High School) you are going to learn programming, networking, english and the basic subjects.
    Maybe "high school" seems confusing for you.
    In my coutry you start in elementary school (8 years) then you can go to secondary school/gymnasium/highschool (we call it "middle school") or vocational school (if you want to be a workman).
    After the final exam in highschool, if you earned enough points, you can apply for college/universities.

    I thought the same system works in Germany.
    Germany and Austria are a little off-the road when it comes to secondary education. In Germany there are as many as five paths available for secondary education, one of them, the Gymnasium - similarly to high-school following the Anglo-American model - under circumstances permit a direct path to academic education. The reason why it is not the same and why it is not simply cross-translated to high-school is that both follow different paths. For once Gymnasium is split into two sub-paths - the normal path (sort of like middle-school) which allow for finishing at 10th grade (school-leaving certificate) - that is if your grades are not good enough to continue or don't want to continue - which would allow you to enroll at an FOS (Fachoberschule) which can be extended to 13th grade after which you are allowed to enroll at a Berufsakademie (sort of a mix between studying and practical training). In the US for instance you can enroll to a high-school at 10th grade allowing to graduate at 12th grade. In Germany you can get into the secondary path, the upper school, which can be finished with a certificate (Abiturzeugnis) for the academic path at 13th grade. To sum it up: In the US there is only primary and secondary education, in Germany, Austria and Switzerland there is primary, secondary education level I and secondary education level II, tertiary education (university, academy etc.) and quaternary (continued/advanced training which applied to all professions, academic or not and is offered by their respective secondary and tertiary educational institutions).
    Last edited by Ravenblade; 2019-05-08 at 11:19 AM.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    Germany and Austria are a little off-the road when it comes to secondary education. In Germany there are as many as five paths available for secondary education, one of them, the Gymnasium - similarly to high-school following the Anglo-American model - under circumstances permit a direct path to academic education. The reason why it is not the same and why it is not simply cross-translated to high-school is that both follow different paths. For once Gymnasium is split into two sub-paths - the normal path (sort of like middle-school) which allow for finishing at 10th grade (school-leaving certificate) - that is if your grades are not good enough to continue or don't want to continue - which would allow you to enroll at an FOS (Fachoberschule) which can be extended to 13th grade after which you are allowed to enroll at a Berufsakademie (sort of a mix between studying and practical training). In the US for instance you can enroll to a high-school at 10th grade allowing to graduate at 12th grade. In Germany you can get into the secondary path, the upper school, which can be finished with a certificate (Abiturzeugnis) for the academic path at 13th grade. To sum it up: In the US there is only primary and secondary education, in Germany, Austria and Switzerland there is primary, secondary education level I and secondary education level II, tertiary education (university, academy etc.) and quaternary (continued/advanced training which applied to all professions, academic or not and is offered by their respective secondary and tertiary educational institutions).
    Ah, decent write up. The systems are so different, I gave up halfway through. It's too complicated and I'm too unfamiliar with the US system. I know this must have been painful for you.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    do you even have kids?

    anyways, i wasn't a stellar math student. the only way i got through math was working it out like i did. throwing 8 other numbers in there seems fucking retarded to me.

    the bane of society is people like you who just aren't satisfied or can't cope with life the way it is, so you must try everything you can to change it. changing things just to say you did. don't try to fix what isn't broke, kid.
    If it seems retarded to you then you clearly still need help with basic math.

    The way it works is how mental typically typically works it trains children to do really well calculating mentally and forming an understanding around the relationships. It was broken.

    Ask a kid or adult why you take one away from three and add ten to two when doing 32-15 and you’ll get”idk but it works”

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    some people just aren't math minded. i was much better in history and english because i enjoy stories.

    Math is a skill and you rather poorly train the future.

    For instance, why is the derivative of x^2 2x? Can you prove it? Do you know the underlying reason? Or do you think just knowing the rule with no idea how it works is wholesome?

    Why is it that if the limit of Fx/gx if it is 0/0 or infinity/infinity also equal to the limit of f prime over g prime? Is it enough to simply know the rule with no idea how it actually works?
    Last edited by Themius; 2019-05-08 at 12:18 PM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    It is an algorithm that you follow. You learn that algorithm by rote.

    It's something many educators seek to redress: often in classes children simply follow instructions and don't think.
    There ain't too much "thinking" going on in the common core method either. It is also a method than ends up at really basic math, just an extremely round about way of doing it. If you are going to wrote learn something then let it be something that can be applied to literally any two numbers. Suddenly it is a tool. Furthermore at school you are always expect to demonstrate your working, even in college, PRECISELY to show you understand what you are doing.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    There ain't too much "thinking" going on in the common core method either. It is also a method than ends up at really basic math, just an extremely round about way of doing it. If you are going to wrote learn something then let it be something that can be applied to literally any two numbers. Suddenly it is a tool. Furthermore at school you are always expect to demonstrate your working, even in college, PRECISELY to show you understand what you are doing.
    there is more thinking in common core.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post


    For instance, why is the derivative of x^2 2x? Can you prove it? Do you know the underlying reason? Or do you think just knowing the rule with no idea how it works is wholesome?

    Why is it that if the limit of Fx/gx if it is 0/0 or infinity/infinity also equal to the limit of f prime over g prime? Is it enough to simply know the rule with no idea how it actually works?
    jesus you're a windbag. great at math, i'm sure.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    jesus you're a windbag. great at math, i'm sure.
    so then yo believe knowing the underlying reason of why things work isn't important if it just works..

    this is like saying "I don't need to know how applications run if they just work" - said by application developer

    Everyone uses math... common core forces you to train your mental math skills.

    32-15

    round down to 30

    half of 30 is 15

    add 2 back to 15

    17
    old way is... add ten to 12 and take 1 away from three. What the fuck does this even mean? Why does this happen? no one cares they just know it works..
    Last edited by Themius; 2019-05-08 at 12:39 PM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    so then yo believe knowing the underlying reason of why things work isn't important if it just works..

    this is like saying "I don't need to know how applications run if they just work" - said by application developer

    Everyone uses math... common core forces you to train your mental math skills.

    32-15

    round down to 30

    half of 30 is 15

    add 2 back to 15

    17
    old way is... add ten to 12 and take 1 away from three. What the fuck does this even mean? Why does this happen? no one cares they just know it works..
    Im sure the new way works as you say if you are taught it. I can see it I understand what its doing I just dont think I can calculate that way even if I tried.

    But to one of your earlier statements we were always taught you were borrowing from columns, so you drew lines down vertically

    6|7
    -2|8

    So in essence you are borrowing from the tens column once, to make the top number greater than the bottom, so the tens column, the 6, loses 1 and becomes a 5, the ones column, the 7 gains from the tens column so 10+7 = 17 then you do 17-8 = 9, with what was left in the tens column you have 5-2 is 3 so the answer becomes 39. When you put it out like that the old system seems about as stupid as the new if you look at the method of teaching objectively.

    What im getting at is everyone is right from different perspectives. I dont solve subtraction using either of these methods so eh.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teph View Post
    How is that new way even supposed to work? I passed some math classes in university and don't get what's the logic there. I'm feeling really stupid right now.
    Is it just "any way to get from 12 to 32 and then add it"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    i cannot wait to pick my kid up from school early one day because she told the teacher this is fucking stupid. she will get a treat that day.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Wtf is that??? Hahahahahah thanks Obama!
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    What is this mess?
    Personally I don't put much faith in sourceless jpegs randomly linked off the internet whose intent is to cast some form of mealy-mouthed aspersion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    I'd like to know who put up this piece of propaganda.
    Nice to see one guy gets it.
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    Kaleredar is right...
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    there is more thinking in common core.
    I agree, it throws out practicality for double handling with abacus style math. It is definitely more work hence more thinking. Good thinking it ain't, but who cares. You are still just potentially blindly following a method. I really don't see how this is providing you with a learning advantage at all unless you literally do not understand a base 10 counting system.

    I am sure it it will deliver us great new standards.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  13. #113


    Here's a video that explains it a bit.

    Frankly it works closer to how most people use math.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    We in the U.S. are too stupid to even demonstrate.
    There is no need to provide a good education to the people in the US. Because most of the smart people around the world migrates to the US.

  15. #115
    Too difficult my ass. I did that maths exam myself and passed it without even studying much for it. And I hated math. And yes, I did it in Bavaria, which is notorious for being much harder than in other regions of Germany. I don't even want to think about how goddamn easy those must be.

    It's not any more difficult than other subjects, I daresay I found it easier than some others.

    These kids just want everything handed to them, nothing else.
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    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangris View Post
    Too difficult my ass. I did that maths exam myself and passed it without even studying much for it. And I hated math. And yes, I did it in Bavaria, which is notorious for being much harder than in other regions of Germany. I don't even want to think about how goddamn easy those must be.

    It's not any more difficult than other subjects, I daresay I found it easier than some others.

    These kids just want everything handed to them, nothing else.
    They said many of the tasks, particularly concerning geometry and statistics, had not been seen before in class by students, and were "more difficult" than previous years.
    This would bit a bit of a problem.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    This would bit a bit of a problem.
    Then this is an issue of the respective teachers sucking at teaching what they're supposed to, not the exams themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  18. #118
    I just leave that here, because it is funny:


    They essentially wrote, how the test was not "that" hard, posted the solution, and miscalculated. :P

  19. #119
    The Lightbringer
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    Heh my electrical engineering class did the same to our math teacher, but to be fair he was assigning stuff outside the scope of the program and skipping things we were supposed to cover.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Yeah, not everybody wants to be engineers or rocket scientists. Just because they pay well, does mean people see themselves happy in those positions xD

    That's fine...but being just what makes you happy is not what it is always the best for you. If your kid wants a candy because that would make him/her happy would you just stuff it with candies all the time? Or you would feed him/her some healthy food as well no matter how hard does it object?

    Being payed well doesn't have to do anything with being happy. Whole point of studying is developing who you are. Some people want to develop who they are and work on themselves and that makes them happy. Those very same people find challanges in studying and learning and others don't. Others rather find a challange in who would look on the outside "more happy" and then judge the people who get payed well how they are "too serious" but they are just smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    There’s a bit of a leap between being able to do basic maths and then the level required to be an engineer or a rocket scientist. The main issue here doesn’t seem to be that it’s just hard, but the fact that there was elements included in the test which hadn’t been included in the curriculum they were taught and that there was too many questions for the allocated time. If that is the case then that is unfair, despite and which angle you look at it.
    If that's the case, yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    The article is very poor with the translation. We are talking in reality about secondary school here that is meant to prepare you for academic level of education such as universities, one that is meant to grant you a certificate permitting you access to it (also called Abitur). Not sure why this article waffles about high-schools.
    I was wondering the same because it is hard to tell what is the reall roblem in the article. My experienice with the high-schools or gimnasium is that...when I was thinking about going to academics, I knew the story of "you will see when you go to university 90% of people give up by the end of the first semester" so I was like "nah that can't be true" but to my shock the kids who were finishing high-schools or gimnasium already gave up just went with "3 kids and shitty jobs" mode right after high-schools ended while objecting that preparations for universities are "too hard" and arguing with professors how it "works agains them".

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