M+ looting system busted?

[styil]

One of the major flaws of Azerite was the issue of having to farm for the same traits that you already had just at a higher item level. How is this any different to Mythic+? Every season you're simply farming for the same gear that you already had just at a higher item level.

I don't feel like the current Mythic+ system is very sustainable in the long term. It needs a drastic overhaul and fast. And this problem has been made far worse with the gear normalisation between dungeons and raids and the introduction of seasons in BFA. As soon as people realise that their character progression in the next 18 months is simply going to be farming for the same gear in the same BFA dungeons, I think that interest in the system is going to die out.

I can't imagine the M+ loot carrot lasting beyond BFA as the system currently stands.

[quite an expert in wow]

i will keep on playing it

[Vynx]

Higher ilvl gear means more haste and crit which lead to smoother and more exciting gameplay. What's there to hate about it?
You expect that once you hit ilvl cap to sit there for years?

[Dawon]

You mean like how we raid same instance at Normal for "that item" to drop and then the same in Heroic and then the same in Mythic and then same and hope it will wf or even better tf in the end?

Yeah that system doesnt work as a carrot for us... oh wait?

[Video Games]

I have seen people complain they had to go back to gruul to get dst but seem ok we need to go back to wcm to get a stupid balrefire.

Not to mention loot these days is so fickle i dont remember most of their names

[Moonsorrow]

I you are still doing M+ for loot you are doing it wrong.
After the first weeks only the weekly chest is of any interest, besides some freakish titanforges.

M+ loot needs to be on par with the raid loot, otherwise M+ is dead, especially as a parallel gearing path. And in the end i don't mind if I have received the same item before but with a lower ilvl. Loot is a tool, not the ultimate goal at least imho.

[Galaar]

How is this any different then how loot progression has been since the beginning? Back in vanilla you farmed up the dungeon set knowing that the raid set would replace it. yes they had different names but it was the exact same principle.

[Trend]

One of the major flaws of Azerite was the issue of having to farm for the same traits that you already had just at a higher item level. How is this any different to Mythic+? Every season you're simply farming for the same gear that you already had just at a higher item level.

I don't feel like the current Mythic+ system is very sustainable in the long term. It needs a drastic overhaul and fast. And this problem has been made far worse with the gear normalisation between dungeons and raids and the introduction of seasons in BFA. As soon as people realise that their character progression in the next 18 months is simply going to be farming for the same gear in the same BFA dungeons, I think that interest in the system is going to die out.

I can't imagine the M+ loot carrot lasting beyond BFA as the system currently stands.

Maybe an MMO just isn't for you? Of course it is a hamster wheel and you should not play it if you want to be done with getting gear at some point. There are other types of games you know.

[ShmooDude]

You mean like how we raid same instance at Normal for "that item" to drop and then the same in Heroic and then the same in Mythic and then same and hope it will wf or even better tf in the end?

The difference is raid loot stops progressing at some point. M+ on the other hand keeps leveling throughout the entire expansion. If they redid the dungeon loot tables each season then it would be comparable, but they haven't thus far. At best they add a new dungeon.

[Natureseer]

Higher ilvl gear means more haste and crit which lead to smoother and more exciting gameplay. What's there to hate about it?
You expect that once you hit ilvl cap to sit there for years?

i think hes referring to how when a new raid comes out, you are attaining new items, where as for m+, the ilvl goes up but you are just getting the same exact items again but higher ilvl.

[Nathasil]

I think M+ is mostly fine.

You have to consider the system it replaced was VP from running HC dungeons on end. You ran far too easy dungeons to collect a currency and the loot from the dungeon was completely pointless. M+ is definetly an improvement over this.

Of course, the even better system would be M+ that actually award a currency...you know? You would run actually challenging dungeons and since you run them for the currency and not the loot, it would be ok to not have loot. Just put some crafting materials in the final box.

But currently most players are running M+ for essences and AP only....so we are almost there.

[xcess]

no different to everything resetting every xpac. Some people just love any upgrades

[Mightytasty]

This Greater Rift-style repeatable loot pinata is definitely at odds with the weekly lockout style of loot from Raids. This might work a little better if Raiding offered more powerful gear and tier sets but currently there is little incentive to raid after the race is over, just talk to any recruiter.

[Elbob]

This Greater Rift-style repeatable loot pinata is definitely at odds with the weekly lockout style of loot from Raids. This might work a little better if Raiding offered more powerful gear and tier sets but currently there is little incentive to raid after the race is over, just talk to any recruiter.

raids do drop better loot.... Mythic raid (which is the only "competitive" raid difficulty) drops 415 and M +10's drop 400

[Teodas]

I think people are getting it the wrong idea here. Every new patch with a raid in it, you go there and farm that raid specific gear. Raid changes and there is new loot to look for. Sometimes this new gear can even alter a thing or two on how your character plays(set bonuses, i miss you), sometimes for the better, sometimes not so much. M+ loot is basicly the same all the expansion. That ring you got on 8.0 is the same ring you are aiming to get on 8.1, will be the same at 8.2 and that won't change until 9.0 comes, or new dungeons are introduced. So, if M+ dungeons are relevant content to the game, it would be fair for them to see some inovation also in therms of rewards, instead of just going for new afixes.
some new items with procs, exclusive effects, i dont realy know what... maybe thats why i'm not a dev.

[Mightytasty]

raids do drop better loot.... Mythic raid (which is the only "competitive" raid difficulty) drops 415 and M +10's drop 400

Weekly chest is 410 vs weekly raids 415. Not much difference. Especially considering getting your weekly chest is much easier than clearing Mythic raid and it’s faster to farm residuum in M+ anyway.

Edit: This isn’t even mentioning Titanforging which is a system that favors repeatable content.

[Kaver]

One of the major flaws of Azerite was the issue of having to farm for the same traits that you already had just at a higher item level. How is this any different to Mythic+? Every season you're simply farming for the same gear that you already had just at a higher item level.

I don't feel like the current Mythic+ system is very sustainable in the long term. It needs a drastic overhaul and fast. And this problem has been made far worse with the gear normalisation between dungeons and raids and the introduction of seasons in BFA. As soon as people realise that their character progression in the next 18 months is simply going to be farming for the same gear in the same BFA dungeons, I think that interest in the system is going to die out.

I can't imagine the M+ loot carrot lasting beyond BFA as the system currently stands.

I agree. They also talked about this issue in Allcraft.

One of the best trinkets in the game right now is Harlan's Loaded Dice. It is not very motivating to farm this trinket and then when the new M+ season comes, you'll have to farm the exact same trinket one more time, just with a higher artificial number.

In general, we also need to see trinkets which are more focus on either ST or Multi-target. I have currently used the same two trinkets for forever. It would be nice to change your trinket setup based on fortified and tyrannical weeks.

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Maybe an MMO just isn't for you? Of course it is a hamster wheel and you should not play it if you want to be done with getting gear at some point. There are other types of games you know.

It is a hamster wheel, but there are still limits to madness. In legion there were 4.5 raids (I call ToV half a raid ). Imagine if the exact same gear (trinkets etc.) had dropped from all the raids. That would be sad.

Every new raid tier brings new gear. Which is great. But why shouldn't M+ seasons do the same. Even though it is the same dungeons. It would be great if they could also give us new dungeons each season, but "baby steps" you know

I'm mostly into raiding in WOW. Mythic raiding is the reason why I still play the game. But I feel bad for players who mainly do M+ as they have to look at the same gear for 2 years.

[gutnbrg]

I have seen people complain they had to go back to gruul to get dst but seem ok we need to go back to wcm to get a stupid balrefire.

Not to mention loot these days is so fickle i dont remember most of their names

omg this hit me hard...i can remember how huge Dragonspine trophy was back in the day and honestly right now I cant name 1 piece of gear that i have on...

[cparle87]

One of the major flaws of Azerite was the issue of having to farm for the same traits that you already had just at a higher item level. How is this any different to Mythic+? Every season you're simply farming for the same gear that you already had just at a higher item level.

How is this different from how gearing has been from the beginning of the game? You find what your best stats/traits are, farm the best gear you can that have them, then do it again when the item level cap is raised.

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omg this hit me hard...i can remember how huge Dragonspine trophy was back in the day and honestly right now I cant name 1 piece of gear that i have on...

More recently, I remember people doing mythic Ursoc runs until the end of Nighthold to get some trinkets off of him that were very good.

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This Greater Rift-style repeatable loot pinata is definitely at odds with the weekly lockout style of loot from Raids. This might work a little better if Raiding offered more powerful gear and tier sets but currently there is little incentive to raid after the race is over, just talk to any recruiter.

Except that the gear is slightly weaker than mythic raiding, and there's the perks that only they get like CE achieves, titles, and mounts. If that and the challenge isn't for you, then mythic raiding isn't for you. That's not a bad thing.

[Mightytasty]

How is this different from how gearing has been from the beginning of the game? You find what your best stats/traits are, farm the best gear you can that have them, then do it again when the item level cap is raised.

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More recently, I remember people doing mythic Ursoc runs until the end of Nighthold to get some trinkets off of him that were very good.

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Except that the gear is slightly weaker than mythic raiding, and there's the perks that only they get like CE achieves, titles, and mounts. If that and the challenge isn't for you, then mythic raiding isn't for you. That's not a bad thing.

It is different. How can you possibly conflate Azerite gear with interesting gear from the past like tier sets and legendarys? One produces variety in gameplay throughout an expansion and one doesn’t.

Also, titles and mounts aren’t special anymore because server communities are dead.