Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Broad strokes since I'm at work and not able to go into as much detail as I'd like over phone


    1. No war of thorns or burning Teldrassil

    2. Better demonstration of why azerite is important

    3. Let the conflict actually be grey, Alliance can be aggressors
    This is an issue that tends to get overshadowed but yeah, all they've really done with azerite really is make it 'super gun poweder' and have it buff our necklaces. It never really FEELs like a game changer considering the firepower the factions have shown off before. The Azerite War Machine in the battle for lordaeron didn't feel special. It could have been a normal tank with no mention of azerite and I'd have just as easily bought a super goblin tank taking out those siege towers.

  2. #42
    Old God Shampro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Crucible
    Posts
    10,767
    Not intentionally point for point basically copy and paste Mists of Pandaria. It doesn't matter if they didn't like how it went the first time, it really doesn't. It's insulting to the playerbase for them to do this, and there's a very good chance that I'm never going to return because of it. It shows that they do not respect thier characters and narrative invested players.

  3. #43
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Ashenvale.
    Posts
    684
    Well I would start with Silithus and the intervention between SI:7 and the Cenarion outpost, and the Goblins (some horde organization) being the sides for the first warfront and quest zone, which gives us a ton of info as to what Azerite is and what it can do. We maneuver with Magni and all the intro stuff here. Then we learn some dire things.

    Aserite is really killing Azeroth like not a slow bleed but really really. And with Sargeras's sword the essence of his power permeates the world and awakens Azshara into motion, kind of like an ex coming in the room. But it boots her into action, and is using the dying planet to power N'zoth (steal his power whatever) The point is Azshara is causing trouble and actively on the move instead of just posturing and she is in the middle of the ocean so we need ships as the legion battle drained all our resources.

    So this is where KT and Draz come in. Preferably with some opening explaining exactly what Talanji and Zul were doing how they got caught etc. so there is actually some agency and we learn about the loss of the KT fleet so it spurs Jaina to actually get involved then pretty much everything else can continue as is now.

  4. #44

    Skytotems Solutions Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Well done. Long and logical. I love that part about azerite magic and azerite blight. I am looking forward for part 2.
    SOLUTIONS PART 2

    Part 1 mostly focused on Anduin and Sylvanas, with Genn and Turalyon playing secondary roles. In part 2 we see other faces pop up, as we move out of the 'prepatch' phase and into the 'meat' of the Expansion. Now, BFA launch had some problems with the Kul'tirans throwing diplomatic envoys in jail, and the Horde doing a heist in Stormwind with Zandalari royalty there for... some reason? So I'll be adjusting that, Aaaand some of the regional problems as well.


    Phase 1 (The Launch Patch Equivalent)
    The basic premise for both sides is the same, the House of Nobles, Alliance leaders, and representatives from other Human Kingdoms meet in Stormwind. While the Darkspear and Revantusk representatives (Shatterspear are sadly, still defunct as a tribe in this canon... For Now) talk with the other Horde Leaders about the upcoming gathering of tribes on Zuldazar.



    Alliance:
    The Alliance sends a delegation to Kul'tiras made up of myriad leaders and headed by Genn and Jaina, as in BFA proper, with Alleria, Shaw and others still tagging along.

    When approaching Kul'tiras we see a battle going on where the Kul'tirans fight some old god forces attacking the harbor gates and we join in, though it's clear the defenders had things well in hand, this gets the gates opened up so we can speak with Katherine.

    Rather than immediately take Jaina and the players into custody (Though Ashvane and other Kul'tiran nobles push to do so) they're protected due to being diplomatic envoys (Genn essentially won't let them take the player and Jaina away, the whole initial meeting is tense), Katherine eventually tells everyone Kul'tiras isn't interested in rejoining the Alliance that left Daelin unavenged and their troops to die in Kalimdor, and is strong enough to survive on its own.

    Jaina speaks briefly with Katherine and the others about what happened with Daelin, how the Horde is still a threat and the world is dying under them, and how she doesn't want Kul'tiras hurt anymore and surrenders herself to be taken prisoner if they'll at least hear out the Alliance delegation. Katherine imprisons Jaina and allows the delegation to stay in the Harbor until Jaina is sentenced for betraying Daelin by a tribunal of the Kul'tiran nobility's major houses.

    Genn and Cyrus talk about getting the houses to support Jaina and win Kul'tiras support back to the Alliance.


    Tiragarde Sound has Ironforge Dwarves and gnomes work with Cyrus (Roughnecks merged with Taelia/Flynn's group) and Tandred Proudmoore (House Proudmoore, Tandred not lost at sea here) to oppose Ashvane, her pirates and Orc/goblin forces in the region (a bit of a WC2 vibe). It all still culminates in the "Mechagon" subplot.

    Drustvar has Worgen, Night Elves, the Thornspeakers and Order of Embers oppose the Coven/Drust, and Forsaken/Darkspear forces in the region, though Gorak'Tul isn't killed off right away, merely delayed. (Note, to avoid the 'worgen are nelf sidekicks' vibe, I have the worgen keep more of their 'monster hunting monster' feel working with the Order of the Embers, and the Nelfs here are Wardens with little direct interaction with the worgen).

    Stormsong has Tushui Pandaren, Void Elves work with the "Stormriggers" and Storm's Wake to fight against Tauren/Zandalari forces, oppose the K'thir and Naga, who get away with some of the artifacts from the Stormsong monastery. (The Tauren here are horde-aligned grimtotem under the command of Jevan Grimtotem aka "Stormsong" so they're a bit more hostile than usual tauren)

    As in BFA proper we oust the corrupt house leaders, replace them with a new generation of non-evil/crazy folks, but there's a few twists. When Ashvane attacks the city with naga forces, Jaina helps fight the Kraken alongside the players and freezes the tidal wave it was making to wipe out the city. This does not make everyone immediately like her again, but public opinion is fickle and some people consider her a hero even if others still blame her for Daelin's death. Saving the entire city and the Alliance's much warmer support in aiding the outlying territories is enough for the assembled Houses to Pardon Jaina and let her reconcile with her family.

    Cyrus, who was once a very minor noble through his harbormaster position, is elevated to replace the deposed and imprisoned Ashvane, with House Crestfall taking control of Ashvanes former holdings.

    The Alliance has the support of the Kul'tiras fleet, but their leaders can tell there's still clearly more at play here


    COMING SOON:

    Horde content

    STROMGARDE

    "War Campaign" Revamp
    Twas brillig

  5. #45
    Horde:

    Rokhan leads a delegation of Horde aligned troll tribes (Darkspear, Revantusk, and the now named Firegrin Tribe from Twilight Highlands), as well as representatives from other Horde races to Zandalar. Now at this point in time only Troll representatives are allowed onto the isle still so most players and most Horde representatives would be stuck on the boat until Rokhan and the others negotiate, but at the docks we hear the princess's ship went out to visit some temples on a nearby isle but hasn't returned yet, and the Zandalari have been so busy preparing for the Summit of Tribes that no one's been sent out yet. (Implications that Zul's members of the Zanchuli are playing it off to Rastakhan that Talanji is just off being irresponsible on that isle rather than in danger to keep him from sending anyone)

    Rokhan sends the players and some other troops to investigate, hoping to win some points with Rastakhan, and on the isle we find Talanji and her personal guard have been fighting to protect the temples from some malfunctioning titan constructs who are pouring out of the sea and apparently trying to destroy the temples, suck the energies out of the temples to use them to fix the wounds in Azeroth.

    In this variation, Talanji is a priestess of Torcali and commands their forces the Torcalin (I feel Torcali being a Direhorn works better thematically with Talanji's focus on barriers and shields, I'd rationalize it as saying Torcali was her Mom's loa) rather than Rezan (who's still Rastakhans loa).

    Each of the temples represents one of the parts of Zandalar (Zuldazar, Nazmir, Vol'dun) and the loa that live there, and each is assisted by different parts of the Horde delegation as the players run around, though we're shown that their defenders did have things in hand, (just as the Kul'tiran defenders did, This helps set up why neither group feels they need the Horde/Alliance, and why we WANT them to join us). Talanji though is impressed by the Horde's skill in battle and that they came to aid her while the Zul-Zanchuli council's members tried to leave her to die, and makes a deal with Rokhan that the Zandalari will work with the Horde if they help her get rid of the corruption in Rastakhan's court.

    Talanji pulls strings and uses the fact that the Horde helped defend the temples to earn the Horde's members rights to actually be on Zandalar as non-trolls, essentially treating the "Horde" as its own group of tribes, similar to the Drakkari, Farraki, Gurubashi, and Amani. Rather than directly in the great seal, the Horde is based in a 'Tal'Razzash' area, which once belonged to a group of tribes called the Razzashi that would later be absorbed by the Gurubashi when it became an empire, the tribes that eventually became the Farraki (Razorbranch) and Darkspear were both once part of the ill-fated Razzashi. Rokhan has the Horde forces in Zuldazar take up this name once more.

    Most of the other troll tribes don't like the Horde so Horde forces are divided up in each of the other zones to win them over and secure the continent from both Alliance and Old God forces.

    Zuldazar has a mix of Orc and Huojin working with Talanji. They fight both Zul's traitors and the Mogu who were attempting to take over the Amani enclave. In this continuity Zul is not simplyan old God cultist but he still dabbles with their magic (without the Mogu's knowledge) and has still negotiated a treaty with Azshara and still plans to drain and kill off the loa. There's also conflict with Tushui and Night Elf forces in the region which touch on the Pandarens and Night Elves past with the Zandalari.

    Nazmir is a bit different from ingame. Darkspear and Forsaken are the primary presence, and still work with the zone's loa. Rather than seeming abandoned for generations it's more clear that it became swamplike due to the cataclysm and there are more settlements but all in recent decline. The area is full of trolls who feel abandoned by the Zandalari royalty and are turning towards rebellion. It also doesn't have Ghuun feature as an 'artificial' old god, and it is instead a Leech-Loa that was force fed old God Blood by the titans in an experiment, though it's still raising the dead as it breaks its bonds. We see both Worgen and Kul'tiran forces in the region.

    Vol'dun is seeing a resurgence of Silithid/Aqiri forces due to the Faithless and so we have a mix of Goblins and Tauren fighting against them. The region, instead of being a place solely for exiles, is full of mines, and is also home to a Kaja'mite subplot which has the goblins grow closer together with the Vulpera (Bleh), while the Tauren broker peace between the Sethrak's Faithful, the Vulpera, and the Sandfury forces in Vol'dun. Alliance invaders in the area are Dark irons and Lightforged Draenei.


    The questing still culminates in battle against Zul's forces, but it's more of a proper civil war, with Zul and his traditionalists from each tribe, fighting Rastakhan and the members of each tribe that have grown to work with the Horde, here we see the Horde's past with the Orcs-Forest Trolls (Zul'jin), forsaken, working with belfs and nightborne all addressed. Zekhan (Zappy boy) reveals he was a Shatterspear, orphaned by Garrosh's pointless war, but also adopted by the Horde's darkspear. He gives a little speech about how he's fought alongside elves and undead and orcs and more, and unites the members of the other troll tribes who support the Horde in the Shatterspear coalition, reviving his dead tribe.

    It's touched on that Zul orchestrated the civil war as a sort of gambit based on his visions, if he won the trolls would be united and survive as part of the new Black Empire under Azshara and the Old gods rule, but independent, not crazed mind controlled cultists. If he lost, then the Horde-troll partnership would be solid because everyone who followed the old ways and would betray or destabilize the Horde is dead and the Horde has proven itself.
    Twas brillig

  6. #46
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    4,165
    Nice ideas @Skytotem can't wait for part 3. Kudos
    "The heart of the Horde" = Alliance-approved Horde

  7. #47
    I would've had the Battle of Lordearon replaced with the Alliance attacking Bladefist Bay and occupying Orgrimmar. Anduin wouldn't be High King, but an unproven leader, relying on Genn, Velen, the Dwarves and Tyrande. With Orgrimmar held, and Saurfang in chains, sylvanasl does evil and burns the tree.

    The reason for going to and the stories in Zandalar and Kul'Tiras remain the same. However the first raid is not Uldir, but the Zandalar Armada vs Kul'Tiran Fleet. It would have more in common with the first wing of the Battle of Dazar Alor, same fights, but differing story and NPCs.

    The War Campaign would be more about how reach race reacts to the opposing Factions threat to them, culinating in an epic battle, 20 man scenarios, or Warfronts, without being sold as something they are not. This where we focus on the old world.

    For example, SI:7 and the Night Elves manipulate and reach out to the Grimtotem, together they oust Baine and other Tauren tribes from Thunder Bluff.
    The Council of Three Hammers, has been tenuous at best, the Dark Irons are thrown under the bus or used constantly, the Orcs see that, but want a stronghold in EK, they actually work with Dark Irons and retake Shadowforge City from some cult of Ragnaros, and the Dark Irons join the Horde, Grimtotem joined the Alliance.
    Forsaken and Gilnean war is intense, results in Gilneas being reclaimed, and Forsaken ousted from EK.

    Long story short, both sides view themselves as loosing the war. But we see Allaince victories when its more democratic and losses when its not, the opposite is true for the Horde, when a singular leader rises up they win, when there's in fighting and multiple agendas they loose. It reinforces the idea that the Horde needs a Warchief and that the Alliance is better through democratic leadership. Showing actual difference for the factions. It would make more sense to include Allied Races or the actual requested sub-races.

    As the war waged on however a clear narrative is spun. The Horde is weakened, on the verge of splitting, because of Anduin letting Saurfang go and "reclaiming its soul" while Sylvanas is viewed as stubborn evil, doing anything to win. We see that Stormwind has emerged as the central power of the Alliance, with all its other member kingdoms needing to rely on them for support. Also some how the Lightbound and Yrel have come to Azeroth. Yrel being a big player and consummate ally to Anduin.

    Towards the end of the expansion we learn that the Light has been fueling Anduin's visions since he was a child. The Light was his guide in this war, telling him when to hold troops back to avoid large losses, when to press attacks to achieve victory, etc. It ends with him fully in charge of the Alliance, renaming it the Empire of Light (something corny) when the truth if fully realized its too late. The Horde are nothing more rabble-rousers led by a new Orc Warchief, that present no real threat; and the Alliance is forced to go along with their new Papal-Emperor, down whatever zealous crusade he deems worthy.

    And the sword in Silithus at the end, just disappears, providing a big WTF mystery.

  8. #48
    My Major Plot Points to make the story coherent:

    1. Azerite is an arcane amplifying ore instead of being a nondescript "power-amplifier". Being arcane in nature will make it addictive just like the well of eternity's waters and give everyone involved a much larger reason to pursue it (especially Anduin and Sylvanas after they touch it with bare hands). This makes the startup of the faction war make more sense as more and more people become addicted to its powers to the extent that conflict breaks out over large Azerite deposits. Lack of Azerite starts turning those addicted into withered versions of each race. The fruits of the Arcan'dor are not powerful enough to overcome Azerite addiction because it is so potent being the blood of a titan which leads to Magni acquiring the Heart of Azeroth and tasking us with absorbing as much as possible to not only heal Azeroth but to stop people from becoming addicted to it.

    2. Teldrassil has roots in the ground. Those roots start soaking up Azerite from the wound making it extremely valuable to those addicted to Azerite (and as a consequence makes the Night Elves as a whole highly addicted to Azerite via proximity. This sets the stage for the War of Thorns. Teldrassil does not get blown up but Darkshore is conquered and the tree is blockaded and under continual harvest by the Horde for its Azerite laden leaves and fruits. The Night Elves inside start withering without access to the tree's Azerite, causing conflict in the Alliance to retaliate against the Horde. Part of this involves the siege of Undercity in an attempt to have Sylvanas relieve Teldrassil, but ends in the Ruins of Lordaeron on top collapsing into the Undercity below, thereby ruining the city and giving the Horde even more reason to not end the conflict.

    3. There is a rebellion on both sides aimed at overturning the leadership of those addicted to Azerite. On the Horde it is led by people with prior arcane addictions that know the affects of pure arcane before-hand and aren't dumb enough to touch the stuff (Blood Elves, Nightborne). On the Alliance it is led by people with natural arcane immunities (Dwarves, Gnomes). Not everyone is addicted and major faction leaders that are not addicted are forced to make a stand against the increasingly irrational decisions of the faction leaders (Sylvanas, Anduin and Tyrande in particular).

    4. Conflict ends up on Kul Tiras / Zandalar as the need for a fleet to control azerite shipping lanes leads the Alliance to request the aid of Kul Tiras and the Horde to Zandalar for their respective native fleets. Tyrande wants to use the Kul Tiran fleet in a suicide mission against the Horde blockade of Teldrassil which leads to conflicts between Jaina and Tyrande. Anduin is caught in the middle but sides with Tyrande since he is addicted but also wants to save the night elves. This causes Jaina to embrace the alliance's resistance movement despite her animosity towards the Horde that made her happy to be a part of the conflict in the first place.

    5. Azshara appears after becoming addicted from siphoning a large amount of Azerite diffused in the planet's oceans. She starts attacking the Zanadalar and Kul Tiran fleets shipping Azerite across the world. There is a large battle between Zandalari and Kul Tiran fleets that ends with Azshara swallowing both fleets into a whirpool. Both factions launch rescue efforts to save the Azerite / people on board the ships which leads to Nazjatar being a playable zone (albeit like Vashjir with emphasis on water mounts / water walking / water breathing). Azshara uses our heart of azeroth necklace to free Nzoth as a last ditch effort in the raid.

    6. Resistance comes to a head with the battle of Teldrassil. End result is that Tyrande dies, Anduin is severely wounded and falls into a coma, Sylvanas dies twice using the last of her Val'kyr to be revived making her decide to run off and hide knowing that she doesnt wish to die for the Horde and N'Zoth corrupts Teldrassil to siphon its Azerite, forcing the resistance to make the decision to burn down the tree before N'Zoth can absorb all of its Azerite.

    The End:
    N'Zoth uses the disarray caused by the disruption of the faction's leadership to enact his plans to recreate the black empire. Azeroth is still dying and the only way to save her will be to siphon N'Zoth's power back into Azeroth somehow. Horde and Alliance conflict is put on pause as remaining leadership tries to pick up the pieces and combat N'Zoth.

  9. #49
    As others have said, opening with mass murder/destruction of major cities and territories is simply a no go. It LOOKS cool, but it contorts the lore and characters beyond the point of recognition. There can be no "moral greyness" when one faction's opening salvo involves the mass murder of civilians. It also removes flavor and story opportunities from the afflicted races, as nobody roles a character wishing to become a refugee. The goal of the Alliance vs Horde scenario should be to have players of BOTH factions feel both justified, and unjustified in waging war in equal measure. There should be quest-lines and events that make players of BOTH factions feel righteous in fighting the enemy, and quests/events that are highly questionable at best and inexcusable at worst.

    The Alliance has multiple reasons to go to war with the Horde, including reasoning that is questionable. Have Turalyon return as a living legend to the people of the Alliance, but have him be appalled at the thought of Lordaeron being inhabited by undead. He has no concept of any other Horde beyond the demon-fueled one he fought decades ago. Turalyon could undermine and out maneuver the inexperienced Anduin, likely with the aid of Greymane. Have the Alliance, lead by Turalyon, undergo an all-out crusade to purge the Forsaken from Lordaeron with the secondary objective of ousting the leadership of the Blood Elves that are loyal to the Horde.

    This would be a refreshing change of pace from the usual "Horde attacks, Alliance reacts" dichotomy that has become both stale and absurd.

  10. #50
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    4,165
    Quote Originally Posted by B-Man View Post
    As others have said, opening with mass murder/destruction of major cities and territories is simply a no go. It LOOKS cool, but it contorts the lore and characters beyond the point of recognition. There can be no "moral greyness" when one faction's opening salvo involves the mass murder of civilians. It also removes flavor and story opportunities from the afflicted races, as nobody roles a character wishing to become a refugee. The goal of the Alliance vs Horde scenario should be to have players of BOTH factions feel both justified, and unjustified in waging war in equal measure. There should be quest-lines and events that make players of BOTH factions feel righteous in fighting the enemy, and quests/events that are highly questionable at best and inexcusable at worst.

    The Alliance has multiple reasons to go to war with the Horde, including reasoning that is questionable. Have Turalyon return as a living legend to the people of the Alliance, but have him be appalled at the thought of Lordaeron being inhabited by undead. He has no concept of any other Horde beyond the demon-fueled one he fought decades ago. Turalyon could undermine and out maneuver the inexperienced Anduin, likely with the aid of Greymane. Have the Alliance, lead by Turalyon, undergo an all-out crusade to purge the Forsaken from Lordaeron with the secondary objective of ousting the leadership of the Blood Elves that are loyal to the Horde.

    This would be a refreshing change of pace from the usual "Horde attacks, Alliance reacts" dichotomy that has become both stale and absurd.
    The problem is that writers outright refuse to write the Alliance as aggressors, even if they have valid (in their own eyes, at least) reasons.
    "The heart of the Horde" = Alliance-approved Horde

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The problem is that writers outright refuse to write the Alliance as aggressors, even if they have valid (in their own eyes, at least) reasons.
    Well, not exactly. There's plenty of Alliance aggression around. It's just it's incidental and likely unintended by Blizzard, because they want people to believe the Horde is the aggressor, pretending what they wrote about Alliance didn't happen or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  12. #52
    I wouldn’t want Sylvanas to be in the position of Warchief, as she is too incompatible with the majority of Horde races. She always fit more into the cunning Renegade-style racial leader that was pragmatic and got results, to the disgruntled acceptance of the majority Horde leaders. But since the premise is that Legion stays unchanged, and she is Warchief...

    I wish the Alliance had started the war. The Alliance is too synchronized and impeccable at the moment. No leader has any grievances with eachother, and even the recent clash between the night elves and Anduin doesn’t seem to be anything major at the moment (that could change in future patches though, to be fair.). Even when Genn tells Anduin he is going to join them, Anduin gives him his blessing and all is good in the land, when they could have turned that into a seriously good source of conflict between a young inexperienced leader and the old veteran that is Genn.

    Make Anduin want peace in the aftermath of Gorribal penetrating (Heh.) Azeroth, but he has to battle his fellow leaders internally in the Alliance, as well as his own emotions. Since apparently Shaw hasn’t told anyone that the Legion screwed them all with the intel on the Broken Shore, the other major players in the Alliance are calling for revenge against the Horde (Genn, the night elves), Velen is pushing for peace due to the Horde helping out on Argus, Anduin wants peace but also has feelings of vengeance due to losing his father, and feels like he has to prove himself a leader. Distrust of Sylvanas and the Horde when Azerite becomes a factor makes things worse, and the introduction of Calia into the mix causes him to act rashly, ordering for the reclamation of Lordaeron to begin. Genn is all in, wanting to reclaim Lordaeron badly, while the night elves are harshly warning him that this will almost certainly cause the Horde to retaliate in Kalimdor, with Anduin brazenly saying they’ll defend night elven lands after they crush the armies of the Horde in Lordaeron.

    When the siege of Lordaeron turns into a pyrrhic victory (maybe have Genn lose someone special to him, wife and/or daughter,having Genn regress into his murderous self would be beneficial later. Even smoother would be to let Mia (the wife) die in the burning later on.), the Horde naturally goes for Teldrassil, but with the full intention of burning the shit to the waterline. The War of Thorns could go down unchanged, but this time it’s more justified, and have Anduin’s remaining forces arrive too late to save the tree, creating a massive source of internal conflict and intrigue in the Alliance, with the night elves being pissed at what they perceive as Anduin being a foolish child and causing the Horde to burn down their home, and Genn now having even more of a murder-boner for killing Horde, and Anduin, having actually grown from the experience, now realising that he should have tried for peace in the first place, but now has to defeat the Horde before he can push for the peace he wants. I loved the Alliance plots earlier in the game, when political intrigue in Stormwind was a thing, and the nobility seemed to lorewise be actively fighting the royal house, with Onyxia screwing things over even more in the background.

    On the Horde side, tone down the evil moustache-twirling attitude of Sylvanas by a couple hundred degrees, jesus. She’s always been pragmatic and ruthless, it’s been why she’s been a good source of strife in the Horde, but she isn’t fit to be a dictator and not be challenged for it. As a racial leader she had to be clever around the more honorable leadership, and would be reprimanded or sometimes have the more honorable orcs being forced to agree her solution was the best one etc, but this time flip it. Have her try to order her merciless and borderline evil plans to happen, only for the more old-school veterans like Saurfang tell her off, and force her to take a more restrained approach, maybe letting her grow as a character, giving her more of an existence now post-Arthas. And for the love of god, let Baine grow a spine. I love the concept of the Tauren as the peaceful, calm and patient hulks of muscle, that turn into monstrous, horrifying weapons of destruction when angered (Always draw a similarity to the Ogier in Wheel of Time), but Baine is ruining that image on a horrific scale.

    The Horde is debating and struggling with deciding what to do with the newly discovered Azerite, wary of the attack by the Alliance in Stormheim, not trusting them. Saurfang and Baine urges caution, while Sylvanas wants to go on the offensive before the Alliance does. She eventually stands down and instead tries to control Silithus, when she gets word that the Alliance is mobilizing towards Lordaeron. Rushing to the defense, and losing the capital (make the blighting be more of a bitter scorched earth last tactic than the actual plan), Saurfang and Baine have to eat some well-deserved humble pie, and the attack on the night elves is fully endorsed by all three of them. Have Baine lose someone precious to him in the battle for Lordaeron, dying to some dishonorable act by the Alliance, causing him to turn on the Alliance hardcore, making him the Horde equivalent of Jaina, but maybe make it more believable and less knee-jerky. Him claiming to have been naive all this time, regretting his words regarding Camp Taurajo, and then being at the forefront of the fighting would have been amazing.

    You now have an Alliance aggressor that has internal conflict giving the player a lot more interesting plotlines to follow, and the Horde is more on the righteous vengeance path, which could later turn into internal strife as Sylvanas takes the fighting further and further away from the morals of Saurfang/Baine. Have Baine be an actual badass centerpiece throughout the expansion, and he could even become a decent candidate for Warchief, but he would have needed to be aggressive as all hell for quite some time to make up for his whiney weakness so far. Otherwise, have Saurfang take over as Sylvanas is either kicked out or she leaves on her own volition, maybe because the Forsaken have drifted more towards the morality of the rest of the Horde?

    Long post is long
    Last edited by Gigantique; 2019-05-14 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Wrongfully thought of Crowleys daughter as Genns.

  13. #53
    its too late for faction war. if they wanted to have the biggest and most epic faction war ever seen they needed to not spend the past 14 years of wow and wc3 telling us how stupid faction war is. then if they were going to do faction war anyway they needed to not start faction war with the most heinous and one-sided act of pointless genocide a player faction has ever performed.

    literally i would just not have had bfa. the alliance and horde should have stayed as slightly begrudged allies having beaten then legion. dont have a faction war expansion. sylvanas leaves the horde to go follow her own pursuits and we just skip ahead to whatever retarded evil naaru expansion blizzard has lined up with the added bonus that they didnt make all horde player characters an accessory to genocide.

    i can take or leave azerite personally i think its a completely uninspired boring crystal that has no defined use or purpose and yet they still cant figure out anything more interesting to use it for than sparkly gunpowder. its a huge failure of a plot device but maybe if they hadnt spent so much time on faction war bullshit and trying to fix this irredeemable disaster of a garbage story they could have made azerite more interesting

    fact is we would all be a lot happier if bfa had never been released. you can wring your hands trying to fix it and saying "ooooh but if the alliance had just attacked first and ooooh if they didnt have baine act like a wet noodle it would have been better" but the fact is you are wrong. faction war cannot be a good storyline this late in the game. i knew bfa would be shit the moment we knew it was a faction war expansion but i was not prepared for it to be this staggeringly and absolutely shit. it has poisoned the story of wow for years to come. they legitimately ruined their universe with the war of thorns and short of time travel plot repair it cannot be fixed.

    but thats the game we're stuck with now

    for the horde lmfao

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •