BfA Lore and Criticism

[Soon-TM]

Nice ideas @Skytotem can't wait for part 3. Kudos

[Directionalk9]

I would've had the Battle of Lordearon replaced with the Alliance attacking Bladefist Bay and occupying Orgrimmar. Anduin wouldn't be High King, but an unproven leader, relying on Genn, Velen, the Dwarves and Tyrande. With Orgrimmar held, and Saurfang in chains, sylvanasl does evil and burns the tree.

The reason for going to and the stories in Zandalar and Kul'Tiras remain the same. However the first raid is not Uldir, but the Zandalar Armada vs Kul'Tiran Fleet. It would have more in common with the first wing of the Battle of Dazar Alor, same fights, but differing story and NPCs.

The War Campaign would be more about how reach race reacts to the opposing Factions threat to them, culinating in an epic battle, 20 man scenarios, or Warfronts, without being sold as something they are not. This where we focus on the old world.

For example, SI:7 and the Night Elves manipulate and reach out to the Grimtotem, together they oust Baine and other Tauren tribes from Thunder Bluff.
The Council of Three Hammers, has been tenuous at best, the Dark Irons are thrown under the bus or used constantly, the Orcs see that, but want a stronghold in EK, they actually work with Dark Irons and retake Shadowforge City from some cult of Ragnaros, and the Dark Irons join the Horde, Grimtotem joined the Alliance.
Forsaken and Gilnean war is intense, results in Gilneas being reclaimed, and Forsaken ousted from EK.

Long story short, both sides view themselves as loosing the war. But we see Allaince victories when its more democratic and losses when its not, the opposite is true for the Horde, when a singular leader rises up they win, when there's in fighting and multiple agendas they loose. It reinforces the idea that the Horde needs a Warchief and that the Alliance is better through democratic leadership. Showing actual difference for the factions. It would make more sense to include Allied Races or the actual requested sub-races.

As the war waged on however a clear narrative is spun. The Horde is weakened, on the verge of splitting, because of Anduin letting Saurfang go and "reclaiming its soul" while Sylvanas is viewed as stubborn evil, doing anything to win. We see that Stormwind has emerged as the central power of the Alliance, with all its other member kingdoms needing to rely on them for support. Also some how the Lightbound and Yrel have come to Azeroth. Yrel being a big player and consummate ally to Anduin.

Towards the end of the expansion we learn that the Light has been fueling Anduin's visions since he was a child. The Light was his guide in this war, telling him when to hold troops back to avoid large losses, when to press attacks to achieve victory, etc. It ends with him fully in charge of the Alliance, renaming it the Empire of Light (something corny) when the truth if fully realized its too late. The Horde are nothing more rabble-rousers led by a new Orc Warchief, that present no real threat; and the Alliance is forced to go along with their new Papal-Emperor, down whatever zealous crusade he deems worthy.

And the sword in Silithus at the end, just disappears, providing a big WTF mystery.

[Khahirr]

My Major Plot Points to make the story coherent:

1. Azerite is an arcane amplifying ore instead of being a nondescript "power-amplifier". Being arcane in nature will make it addictive just like the well of eternity's waters and give everyone involved a much larger reason to pursue it (especially Anduin and Sylvanas after they touch it with bare hands). This makes the startup of the faction war make more sense as more and more people become addicted to its powers to the extent that conflict breaks out over large Azerite deposits. Lack of Azerite starts turning those addicted into withered versions of each race. The fruits of the Arcan'dor are not powerful enough to overcome Azerite addiction because it is so potent being the blood of a titan which leads to Magni acquiring the Heart of Azeroth and tasking us with absorbing as much as possible to not only heal Azeroth but to stop people from becoming addicted to it.

2. Teldrassil has roots in the ground. Those roots start soaking up Azerite from the wound making it extremely valuable to those addicted to Azerite (and as a consequence makes the Night Elves as a whole highly addicted to Azerite via proximity. This sets the stage for the War of Thorns. Teldrassil does not get blown up but Darkshore is conquered and the tree is blockaded and under continual harvest by the Horde for its Azerite laden leaves and fruits. The Night Elves inside start withering without access to the tree's Azerite, causing conflict in the Alliance to retaliate against the Horde. Part of this involves the siege of Undercity in an attempt to have Sylvanas relieve Teldrassil, but ends in the Ruins of Lordaeron on top collapsing into the Undercity below, thereby ruining the city and giving the Horde even more reason to not end the conflict.

3. There is a rebellion on both sides aimed at overturning the leadership of those addicted to Azerite. On the Horde it is led by people with prior arcane addictions that know the affects of pure arcane before-hand and aren't dumb enough to touch the stuff (Blood Elves, Nightborne). On the Alliance it is led by people with natural arcane immunities (Dwarves, Gnomes). Not everyone is addicted and major faction leaders that are not addicted are forced to make a stand against the increasingly irrational decisions of the faction leaders (Sylvanas, Anduin and Tyrande in particular).

4. Conflict ends up on Kul Tiras / Zandalar as the need for a fleet to control azerite shipping lanes leads the Alliance to request the aid of Kul Tiras and the Horde to Zandalar for their respective native fleets. Tyrande wants to use the Kul Tiran fleet in a suicide mission against the Horde blockade of Teldrassil which leads to conflicts between Jaina and Tyrande. Anduin is caught in the middle but sides with Tyrande since he is addicted but also wants to save the night elves. This causes Jaina to embrace the alliance's resistance movement despite her animosity towards the Horde that made her happy to be a part of the conflict in the first place.

5. Azshara appears after becoming addicted from siphoning a large amount of Azerite diffused in the planet's oceans. She starts attacking the Zanadalar and Kul Tiran fleets shipping Azerite across the world. There is a large battle between Zandalari and Kul Tiran fleets that ends with Azshara swallowing both fleets into a whirpool. Both factions launch rescue efforts to save the Azerite / people on board the ships which leads to Nazjatar being a playable zone (albeit like Vashjir with emphasis on water mounts / water walking / water breathing). Azshara uses our heart of azeroth necklace to free Nzoth as a last ditch effort in the raid.

6. Resistance comes to a head with the battle of Teldrassil. End result is that Tyrande dies, Anduin is severely wounded and falls into a coma, Sylvanas dies twice using the last of her Val'kyr to be revived making her decide to run off and hide knowing that she doesnt wish to die for the Horde and N'Zoth corrupts Teldrassil to siphon its Azerite, forcing the resistance to make the decision to burn down the tree before N'Zoth can absorb all of its Azerite.

The End:
N'Zoth uses the disarray caused by the disruption of the faction's leadership to enact his plans to recreate the black empire. Azeroth is still dying and the only way to save her will be to siphon N'Zoth's power back into Azeroth somehow. Horde and Alliance conflict is put on pause as remaining leadership tries to pick up the pieces and combat N'Zoth.

[B-Man]

As others have said, opening with mass murder/destruction of major cities and territories is simply a no go. It LOOKS cool, but it contorts the lore and characters beyond the point of recognition. There can be no "moral greyness" when one faction's opening salvo involves the mass murder of civilians. It also removes flavor and story opportunities from the afflicted races, as nobody roles a character wishing to become a refugee. The goal of the Alliance vs Horde scenario should be to have players of BOTH factions feel both justified, and unjustified in waging war in equal measure. There should be quest-lines and events that make players of BOTH factions feel righteous in fighting the enemy, and quests/events that are highly questionable at best and inexcusable at worst.

The Alliance has multiple reasons to go to war with the Horde, including reasoning that is questionable. Have Turalyon return as a living legend to the people of the Alliance, but have him be appalled at the thought of Lordaeron being inhabited by undead. He has no concept of any other Horde beyond the demon-fueled one he fought decades ago. Turalyon could undermine and out maneuver the inexperienced Anduin, likely with the aid of Greymane. Have the Alliance, lead by Turalyon, undergo an all-out crusade to purge the Forsaken from Lordaeron with the secondary objective of ousting the leadership of the Blood Elves that are loyal to the Horde.

This would be a refreshing change of pace from the usual "Horde attacks, Alliance reacts" dichotomy that has become both stale and absurd.

[Soon-TM]

As others have said, opening with mass murder/destruction of major cities and territories is simply a no go. It LOOKS cool, but it contorts the lore and characters beyond the point of recognition. There can be no "moral greyness" when one faction's opening salvo involves the mass murder of civilians. It also removes flavor and story opportunities from the afflicted races, as nobody roles a character wishing to become a refugee. The goal of the Alliance vs Horde scenario should be to have players of BOTH factions feel both justified, and unjustified in waging war in equal measure. There should be quest-lines and events that make players of BOTH factions feel righteous in fighting the enemy, and quests/events that are highly questionable at best and inexcusable at worst.

The Alliance has multiple reasons to go to war with the Horde, including reasoning that is questionable. Have Turalyon return as a living legend to the people of the Alliance, but have him be appalled at the thought of Lordaeron being inhabited by undead. He has no concept of any other Horde beyond the demon-fueled one he fought decades ago. Turalyon could undermine and out maneuver the inexperienced Anduin, likely with the aid of Greymane. Have the Alliance, lead by Turalyon, undergo an all-out crusade to purge the Forsaken from Lordaeron with the secondary objective of ousting the leadership of the Blood Elves that are loyal to the Horde.

This would be a refreshing change of pace from the usual "Horde attacks, Alliance reacts" dichotomy that has become both stale and absurd.

The problem is that writers outright refuse to write the Alliance as aggressors, even if they have valid (in their own eyes, at least) reasons.

[Mehrunes]

The problem is that writers outright refuse to write the Alliance as aggressors, even if they have valid (in their own eyes, at least) reasons.

Well, not exactly. There's plenty of Alliance aggression around. It's just it's incidental and likely unintended by Blizzard, because they want people to believe the Horde is the aggressor, pretending what they wrote about Alliance didn't happen or something.

[Gigantique]

I wouldn’t want Sylvanas to be in the position of Warchief, as she is too incompatible with the majority of Horde races. She always fit more into the cunning Renegade-style racial leader that was pragmatic and got results, to the disgruntled acceptance of the majority Horde leaders. But since the premise is that Legion stays unchanged, and she is Warchief...

I wish the Alliance had started the war. The Alliance is too synchronized and impeccable at the moment. No leader has any grievances with eachother, and even the recent clash between the night elves and Anduin doesn’t seem to be anything major at the moment (that could change in future patches though, to be fair.). Even when Genn tells Anduin he is going to join them, Anduin gives him his blessing and all is good in the land, when they could have turned that into a seriously good source of conflict between a young inexperienced leader and the old veteran that is Genn.

Make Anduin want peace in the aftermath of Gorribal penetrating (Heh.) Azeroth, but he has to battle his fellow leaders internally in the Alliance, as well as his own emotions. Since apparently Shaw hasn’t told anyone that the Legion screwed them all with the intel on the Broken Shore, the other major players in the Alliance are calling for revenge against the Horde (Genn, the night elves), Velen is pushing for peace due to the Horde helping out on Argus, Anduin wants peace but also has feelings of vengeance due to losing his father, and feels like he has to prove himself a leader. Distrust of Sylvanas and the Horde when Azerite becomes a factor makes things worse, and the introduction of Calia into the mix causes him to act rashly, ordering for the reclamation of Lordaeron to begin. Genn is all in, wanting to reclaim Lordaeron badly, while the night elves are harshly warning him that this will almost certainly cause the Horde to retaliate in Kalimdor, with Anduin brazenly saying they’ll defend night elven lands after they crush the armies of the Horde in Lordaeron.

When the siege of Lordaeron turns into a pyrrhic victory (maybe have Genn lose someone special to him, wife and/or daughter,having Genn regress into his murderous self would be beneficial later. Even smoother would be to let Mia (the wife) die in the burning later on.), the Horde naturally goes for Teldrassil, but with the full intention of burning the shit to the waterline. The War of Thorns could go down unchanged, but this time it’s more justified, and have Anduin’s remaining forces arrive too late to save the tree, creating a massive source of internal conflict and intrigue in the Alliance, with the night elves being pissed at what they perceive as Anduin being a foolish child and causing the Horde to burn down their home, and Genn now having even more of a murder-boner for killing Horde, and Anduin, having actually grown from the experience, now realising that he should have tried for peace in the first place, but now has to defeat the Horde before he can push for the peace he wants. I loved the Alliance plots earlier in the game, when political intrigue in Stormwind was a thing, and the nobility seemed to lorewise be actively fighting the royal house, with Onyxia screwing things over even more in the background.

On the Horde side, tone down the evil moustache-twirling attitude of Sylvanas by a couple hundred degrees, jesus. She’s always been pragmatic and ruthless, it’s been why she’s been a good source of strife in the Horde, but she isn’t fit to be a dictator and not be challenged for it. As a racial leader she had to be clever around the more honorable leadership, and would be reprimanded or sometimes have the more honorable orcs being forced to agree her solution was the best one etc, but this time flip it. Have her try to order her merciless and borderline evil plans to happen, only for the more old-school veterans like Saurfang tell her off, and force her to take a more restrained approach, maybe letting her grow as a character, giving her more of an existence now post-Arthas. And for the love of god, let Baine grow a spine. I love the concept of the Tauren as the peaceful, calm and patient hulks of muscle, that turn into monstrous, horrifying weapons of destruction when angered (Always draw a similarity to the Ogier in Wheel of Time), but Baine is ruining that image on a horrific scale.

The Horde is debating and struggling with deciding what to do with the newly discovered Azerite, wary of the attack by the Alliance in Stormheim, not trusting them. Saurfang and Baine urges caution, while Sylvanas wants to go on the offensive before the Alliance does. She eventually stands down and instead tries to control Silithus, when she gets word that the Alliance is mobilizing towards Lordaeron. Rushing to the defense, and losing the capital (make the blighting be more of a bitter scorched earth last tactic than the actual plan), Saurfang and Baine have to eat some well-deserved humble pie, and the attack on the night elves is fully endorsed by all three of them. Have Baine lose someone precious to him in the battle for Lordaeron, dying to some dishonorable act by the Alliance, causing him to turn on the Alliance hardcore, making him the Horde equivalent of Jaina, but maybe make it more believable and less knee-jerky. Him claiming to have been naive all this time, regretting his words regarding Camp Taurajo, and then being at the forefront of the fighting would have been amazing.

You now have an Alliance aggressor that has internal conflict giving the player a lot more interesting plotlines to follow, and the Horde is more on the righteous vengeance path, which could later turn into internal strife as Sylvanas takes the fighting further and further away from the morals of Saurfang/Baine. Have Baine be an actual badass centerpiece throughout the expansion, and he could even become a decent candidate for Warchief, but he would have needed to be aggressive as all hell for quite some time to make up for his whiney weakness so far. Otherwise, have Saurfang take over as Sylvanas is either kicked out or she leaves on her own volition, maybe because the Forsaken have drifted more towards the morality of the rest of the Horde?

Long post is long

[sillag]

its too late for faction war. if they wanted to have the biggest and most epic faction war ever seen they needed to not spend the past 14 years of wow and wc3 telling us how stupid faction war is. then if they were going to do faction war anyway they needed to not start faction war with the most heinous and one-sided act of pointless genocide a player faction has ever performed.

literally i would just not have had bfa. the alliance and horde should have stayed as slightly begrudged allies having beaten then legion. dont have a faction war expansion. sylvanas leaves the horde to go follow her own pursuits and we just skip ahead to whatever retarded evil naaru expansion blizzard has lined up with the added bonus that they didnt make all horde player characters an accessory to genocide.

i can take or leave azerite personally i think its a completely uninspired boring crystal that has no defined use or purpose and yet they still cant figure out anything more interesting to use it for than sparkly gunpowder. its a huge failure of a plot device but maybe if they hadnt spent so much time on faction war bullshit and trying to fix this irredeemable disaster of a garbage story they could have made azerite more interesting

fact is we would all be a lot happier if bfa had never been released. you can wring your hands trying to fix it and saying "ooooh but if the alliance had just attacked first and ooooh if they didnt have baine act like a wet noodle it would have been better" but the fact is you are wrong. faction war cannot be a good storyline this late in the game. i knew bfa would be shit the moment we knew it was a faction war expansion but i was not prepared for it to be this staggeringly and absolutely shit. it has poisoned the story of wow for years to come. they legitimately ruined their universe with the war of thorns and short of time travel plot repair it cannot be fixed.

but thats the game we're stuck with now

for the horde lmfao