Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Anti-vaccine parents are often college-educated and shop at Whole Foods

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-w...UEAyMCuJrp0mN4

    It is sad seeing our best and brightest holding onto anti intellectual viewpoints. Where did we go wrong as an society? How can we restore trust in science and technology?

    I think the anti vax ideology is a form of narcissism.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    29,240
    More like lack of trust in a system, combined with fear and “just in case”... also people who never faced real threat of an epidemic.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  3. #3
    Neither one of those things indicates that the people are intelligent. Hell, shopping at Whole Foods is something of an indicator to the contrary.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  4. #4
    Where's the actual evidence in all of this?

    All I see are wild unsupported claims and stereotyping without so much as actual polling/analysis of antivaxxers.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-w...UEAyMCuJrp0mN4

    It is sad seeing our best and brightest holding onto anti intellectual viewpoints. Where did we go wrong as an society? How can we restore trust in science and technology?

    I think the anti vax ideology is a form of narcissism.
    well there are many reasons,

    collapse of trust in government
    greedy big pharma - just a few days ago i read about 60 doctors arrested for peddling drugs in usa
    untrustworthy media

    basically the government is to blame

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Dr Assbandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,718
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-w...UEAyMCuJrp0mN4

    It is sad seeing our best and brightest holding onto anti intellectual viewpoints. Where did we go wrong as an society? How can we restore trust in science and technology?

    I think the anti vax ideology is a form of narcissism.
    Wrong. In my time in medicine I have seen mothers who are affluent, poor, different ethnic origins, and hailing from both political parties. The most I could say the common link was strong religious ties and it's mostly the mothers but those was the only common links I experienced and my colleagues more or less agree.
    "It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all outta ass."

    I'm a British gay Muslim Pakistani American citizen, ask me how that works! (terribly)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Assbandit View Post
    Wrong. In my time in medicine I have seen mothers who are affluent, poor, different ethnic origins, and hailing from both political parties. The most I could say the common link was strong religious ties and it's mostly the mothers but those was the only common links I experienced and my colleagues more or less agree.
    My boyfriend said the same but we're both liberal so. Thanks for chiming in.

  8. #8
    Makes sense. They can't afford vaccines after shopping at Whole Foods.

  9. #9
    I always thought it was weird how people portray the right as being anti-vaxxer. Not really a matter of left and right, there are groups of people with belief systems that let in anti-vaxxer information to believe regardless of their political opinions.
    Hell most that don't vaccinate are 3rd worlders coming to western countries.
    “to wear an improper expression on your face was itself a punishable offence. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: FACECRIME, it was called.”

  10. #10
    I used to be anti-vax, but I'm in the minority in that my 3rd child died of acute interstitial pneumonia due to a reaction to the pneumonia vaccine she'd had two days earlier. My daughter was unable to breast feed and we specifically asked the doc if we should postpone the vaccines for a few weeks to allow her immune system to develop more fully since she didn't have her mother's antibodies from the breast milk. Doc said no, it was imperative we stick to the schedule.

    Her death wasn't peaceful.

    When trust has broken, it's not anti-intellectual to look at self-preservation.

    Society embraced science when there was rigor and discipline. Being a scientist was considered a calling more than a profession. Now, medicine is purely for profit. There have been so many failures that it's easy to lose trust and want to withdraw from that system.

    And there's no accountability. The vaccine industry is immune from liability.

    I'm not anti-vax now, but it sure as hell wasn't narcissism that led me to be that for a time.

    What many pediatricians seem to want to say is that, "it's a one in a million chance anything happens. If your child dies as a result, well, that's the cost society pays to avoid many more deaths" Empirically, that may be true.

    However, society doesn't pay that cost, it's individual families. And there are no resources to even help with funeral expenses or to acknowledge anything happened because there's so much money in them that no pediatrician is gonna get on the bad side of the vaccine industry... even in the event of the death of a child. The industry doesn't want to improve, they want to preserve their profit margins.

    I only post this because there legit are those who think that vaccines cause ZERO damage or deaths and thus, anyone not getting them is selfish.

    Around my mic on my desk is the bracelet my daughter wore home from the hospital with her name spelled out in beads. I look at it EVERY DAY.

    Again, I'm not anti-vax. But, there are legit issues with the vaccine industry that no one IN the industry wants to address, not lack of independent testing, not lack of true oversight, not the immunity from liability...none of it.

    People are just told they have to do it no matter the cost.

    If you've never been a parent, you can't know how unsettling it is. Especially because in the rare instance it goes wrong, it doesn't go mildly wrong...it goes way wrong...or even all the way wrong.

    All that to say... it's more complicated than anything you imagine.

  11. #11
    I suppose they're real people, but I've net met anyone in real life that was anti-vaccine. Then again I don't live near a whole foods either.

  12. #12
    Anti vaxxers deserve to be put in a rocket and send to the sun ,along with flat earthers

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Dr Assbandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,718
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishingAct View Post
    I always thought it was weird how people portray the right as being anti-vaxxer. Not really a matter of left and right, there are groups of people with belief systems that let in anti-vaxxer information to believe regardless of their political opinions.
    Hell most that don't vaccinate are 3rd worlders coming to western countries.
    Cite your sources please because the only place I have seen that specific claim being made are conservative echo chambers.
    "It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all outta ass."

    I'm a British gay Muslim Pakistani American citizen, ask me how that works! (terribly)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Assbandit View Post
    Cite your sources please because the only place I have seen that specific claim being made are conservative echo chambers.
    Literally none but maybe they exist but subjects branded 'taboo' are quite hard to find information about. I only said it because thats what I've noticed where I live in Australia which got flagged for 3rd world relocation when our last leftist government was in power back in 2013. I talk to the local bulk bill doctors I've known for over a decade (I like asking questions to people like them, police etc), they tell me almost none of them vaccinate. When things started changing here when this happened...
    In October 2015, the Queensland Parliament, amended the Public Health Act 2005 (Qld) (the Act) with respect to vaccination for the purpose of enrolment and attendance at early childhood education and care services in that state.
    Talking to doctors said a lot of them were in a mad rush to vaccinate for the child care subsidy's for a while until it was found most of the big child care places didn't enforce the optional policy of 'no jab, no play' which I, being a staunch pro vaxxer agree with.

    But its also just critical thinking, they come from 3rd world nations in 3rd world villages, vaccination doesn't happen except for the few that get them from charity setups at UN peacekeeper sections etc. When they come here, they aren't really educated on vaccination as its something optional.
    “to wear an improper expression on your face was itself a punishable offence. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: FACECRIME, it was called.”

  15. #15
    there is always the subgroup that believes vaccines work, just that they are no longer needed. either because better hygiene now, or because the diseases were "eradicated", or because why risk a adverse reaction in my kid when herd immunity will eliminate most risk too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Assbandit View Post
    Cite your sources please because the only place I have seen that specific claim being made are conservative echo chambers.
    latest measles outbreak in my country was from unvaccinated and too young to be vaccinated children who had traveled abroad.

    but all the big outbreaks in the last couple of decades have been from dropping below the magic number for herd immunity to work in religious communities.

    so i don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most outbreaks start from foreign sources where the disease is more prevalent in general, but for it to become a big outbreak there also has to be a problem locally making it just a matter of time.
    Last edited by horbindr; 2019-04-19 at 09:37 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mackeyser View Post
    I used to be anti-vax, but I'm in the minority in that my 3rd child died of acute interstitial pneumonia due to a reaction to the pneumonia vaccine she'd had two days earlier. My daughter was unable to breast feed and we specifically asked the doc if we should postpone the vaccines for a few weeks to allow her immune system to develop more fully since she didn't have her mother's antibodies from the breast milk. Doc said no, it was imperative we stick to the schedule.

    Her death wasn't peaceful.

    When trust has broken, it's not anti-intellectual to look at self-preservation.

    Society embraced science when there was rigor and discipline. Being a scientist was considered a calling more than a profession. Now, medicine is purely for profit. There have been so many failures that it's easy to lose trust and want to withdraw from that system.

    And there's no accountability. The vaccine industry is immune from liability.

    I'm not anti-vax now, but it sure as hell wasn't narcissism that led me to be that for a time.

    What many pediatricians seem to want to say is that, "it's a one in a million chance anything happens. If your child dies as a result, well, that's the cost society pays to avoid many more deaths" Empirically, that may be true.

    However, society doesn't pay that cost, it's individual families. And there are no resources to even help with funeral expenses or to acknowledge anything happened because there's so much money in them that no pediatrician is gonna get on the bad side of the vaccine industry... even in the event of the death of a child. The industry doesn't want to improve, they want to preserve their profit margins.

    I only post this because there legit are those who think that vaccines cause ZERO damage or deaths and thus, anyone not getting them is selfish.

    Around my mic on my desk is the bracelet my daughter wore home from the hospital with her name spelled out in beads. I look at it EVERY DAY.

    Again, I'm not anti-vax. But, there are legit issues with the vaccine industry that no one IN the industry wants to address, not lack of independent testing, not lack of true oversight, not the immunity from liability...none of it.

    People are just told they have to do it no matter the cost.

    If you've never been a parent, you can't know how unsettling it is. Especially because in the rare instance it goes wrong, it doesn't go mildly wrong...it goes way wrong...or even all the way wrong.

    All that to say... it's more complicated than anything you imagine.
    While I am sorry for your loss, as far as vaccines go, there will always be a small chance there will be harm due to what a vaccine is. However, this is where there can be a real reason why someone might be against vaccines due to harm done to them. The vast majority of it though is either through bad info, bad science or religious dogma. It seems that most who are anti vax have seem to forgotten what a vaccine is and what it does.

    Now, there is no possible way I could know the pain of losing a child as I don't have any so any words cannot express how it feels.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishingAct View Post
    Literally none but maybe they exist but subjects branded 'taboo' are quite hard to find information about. I only said it because thats what I've noticed where I live in Australia which got flagged for 3rd world relocation when our last leftist government was in power back in 2013. I talk to the local bulk bill doctors I've known for over a decade (I like asking questions to people like them, police etc), they tell me almost none of them vaccinate. When things started changing here when this happened..
    WTF are you smoking the WHO/UNICEF job is to monitor these things, there's even an interactive map and everything stop talking out of your ass.

    https://www.who.int/immunization/mon...lance/data/en/

  18. #18
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ziltoidia 9
    Posts
    17,256
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    How can we restore trust in science and technology?
    If I found out a friend of mine was an anti-vaxxer, I would first attempt to talk some sense into them. If that failed, I would disconnect from them. I don't have time for people who are a danger to themselves and others.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrShep2154 View Post
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-w...UEAyMCuJrp0mN4

    It is sad seeing our best and brightest holding onto anti intellectual viewpoints. Where did we go wrong as an society? How can we restore trust in science and technology?

    I think the anti vax ideology is a form of narcissism.
    It is selfishness. The problem is that once you remove idiotic autism claims, anti vaxxers have the right idea from a totally selfish standpoint. Vaccines are not totally safe for the individual but the benefits for the group outweighs this tiny risk thousand fold. If you only care about your kids your best bet is to not vaccinate them while making sure that everyone around them are vaccinated. That way you get all the benefits and none of the risks.

  20. #20
    Banned Saninicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Iron city of Dis
    Posts
    5,273
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Where's the actual evidence in all of this?

    All I see are wild unsupported claims and stereotyping without so much as actual polling/analysis of antivaxxers.
    Pot...meet kettle

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •