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  1. #61
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Not evil, just stupid.

    Remember when Velen told NEs their religion was wrong to their faces, when they're the only race with a canon god? Yeah, smart times.

    "You know, Elune is prolly not what you think at all. Maybe she's a Naaruu, because plot homogeny"
    They also tried to tell the orcs about oshugon being their old ship and the orcs DID NOT LIKE THAT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by saintminya View Post
    How exactly is blaming the Draenei for Draenor's destruction victim blaming? Fact of the matter is that the only reason the Legion ended up there was due to KJ pursuing Velen. The Draenei had a headstart on their Eredar pursuers, and in that period of relative peace the Orcs and Draenei got along just fine. Then, KJ locates the Draenei and slowly decieves key Orcs into allowing their people to be corrupted and slaughter their Draenei pals.

    The Orcs had no idea what they got themselves into. The Draenei knew exactly who they were dealing with, and chose to remain on an inhabited planet without telling anyone about the forces they fled from. KJ was beyond crafty, so that knowledge may not have prevented the Orcs from being corrupted, but the Draenei still could have fixed their ship and gone somewhere else before all hell broke loose.

    Not sure if that actually makes the Draenei evil, but the Naaru who encouraged them to sit tight and have faith in the 'light' certainly are. Especially given the events of AU Draenor, it's almost as if the Naaru want all Draenor's to implode.
    Right... Because we know the Legion's goal totally wasn't to destroy the entire universe. Nope. Had the Draenei been wiped out on Argus, the Burning Legion totally would have sat around doing nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Given how they can't post as much because they keep getting banned, I'd say if anyone's spazzing out, it'd be them.
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    im not saying all blood elf fans are weird edgelord neo-nazis

    but all weird edgelord neo-nazis in wow are blood elf rpers

  3. #63
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    blizz strongly hinted that Elune is just a Naaru, not an actual god
    for that matter, is there any real god in wow in first place if even elune is most likely just a naaru ?
    The problem is that she is atm a canon deity in the sense that she answers to no higher will other than her own. Naaru follow a cosmic force with no defined leader. Elune is unrestrained and is related to multiple alignments: arcane, light, life, and shadow/void magic. There is also no other known equivalent to her.

    I guess loa/wild gods could be considered deities too, but I see them primarily as spirits/lesser deities at most.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Orcs are not aliens to draenor, they were descendents of ogres. who were descendents of ogron, who were descendents of gronn, and those descendents of the giant (cant remember their names) the huge stone creatures we see on draenor.

    but yes the orcs had no name for the planet, so the draenei named it and the orcs went "sure"
    It really depends on your definition of "native".

    Grond (the stone giant) was created by Aggramar to counter the Primals of Draenor. As far as we know the Apexis (the Arakkoa called themselves like this at the time) were already around at that time, too.
    Is Grond a "native" to Draenor? He was not "born" there...his "parents" were not immigrants...he was created there, sure...but by an external, alien force. So i would argue Grond was not native to Draenor and therefore none of his descendants were either.

    If you look at the most common use of the word "native" it is to segregate descendants of european settlers from the "native" population of the US...even though those "natives" most likely were also the descendants of immigrants...just much earlier.

    And yes, i realize that by this definition Humans are not native to Azeroth either. I can live with that. It's the story Blizzard wrote.

  5. #65
    most of the issues with Draenei have to do with the fubar'd retconning they did.

    draenei being original residents of outland when illidan went in and took over the black temple before any acknowledgement or inkling of eredar being a corrupted species recruited into the legion. The 'lost ones' were the ONLY draenei and found near teh dark portal and swamp of sorrows.


    That said, making the Draenei, uncorrupted eredar ones that is, have a leader who sees the future with accuracy... who are guided by beings that are almost godlike... who then choose to allow themselves to be massacred and refuse to really defend themselves because of some prophet's teachings... is kind of dumb.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Synros View Post
    The only reason the orcs were corrupted in the first place, and why Draenor was destroyed, was a direct result of the Draenei's selfish and inconsiderate actions. What exactly are you not understanding here?...
    If that were the only reason, then why did the Legion use them to attack Azeroth? They could have walked away and let the orcs murder each other. And why did the Legion corrupt the nathrezim, the eredar, or the night elves? None of those were tied to "exterminating the draenei." If you think that Kil'jaeden saw the potential for the orcs and would've just skipped over them had the draenei not been there, then I think you're underestimating the Legion's motivation to corrupt powerful races across the universe.

  7. #67
    Orcs are children of the titans as well, through their descent from ogres, gronn, giants, etc. So they're just as alien to Draenor as the Draenei are, according to the logic of Hordlets who call humans, dwarves, and gnomes non-native and that Azeroth belongs to trolls and Tauren.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Orcs are children of the titans as well, through their descent from ogres, gronn, giants, etc. So they're just as alien to Draenor as the Draenei are, according to the logic of Hordlets who call humans, dwarves, and gnomes non-native and that Azeroth belongs to trolls and Tauren.
    weren't ogres, gronn, etc natural creatures on the planet while humans, dwarves, and gnomes are descended from constructs inflicted with the curse of flesh?

  9. #69
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    weren't ogres, gronn, etc natural creatures on the planet while humans, dwarves, and gnomes are descended from constructs inflicted with the curse of flesh?
    no,both are descendents of creations of the titans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Settle on primitive world full of shamans worshiping rocks and fire.

    Be so full of yourself that you rename their planet after your race.
    The planet had no name. And the orcs didn't seem to mind it, so what's the problem?

    You also have a prophet as a leader who knows for a fact that he is being pursued by space Lucifer and its only a matter of time before space Lucifer catches up
    What would you do, instead, if you were the leader of the draenei? Surrender and die in Argus? Keep in mind the draenei were nowhere near as strong to fight the Legion.

    The orcs and ogres of this world have no greater concept of evil
    They hunted and killed each other before the draenei even reached that planet. Conflicts and wars between clans was a thing that existed already.

    And you do absolutely nothing to warn them of the great evil that is coming
    How do you know that?

    And because your race remained secluded and hid away from the world instead of trying to coexist with the natural inhabitants, you get purged.
    How do you know that? Warlords of Draenor seem to indicate that attempting to barter with the orcs never ended peacefully.

    Oh and the Naaru that you brought to this world is now evil getting up to no good
    ... What?

    Proceed to leave Draenor a fel shattered rock and try to play the victim about it
    Are you really going to play "blame the victim"? The draenei were slaughtered in troves, to the point their skeletal remains literally paved a road.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
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  11. #71
    I can't really accept the premise of the thread because it's not like the Legion would stay at home smoking joints if the Draenei didn't exist. At worst KJ's chase made his demons target some worlds over others, but given that the Legion is hellbent on conquering or razing literally every single world in existence the difference doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

    And it's not like Velen made KJ chase him over a grudge for 25 000 years anyway. Whereas the Orcs, or at least their leadership, chose to wield the Fel and doomed themselves willingly.

  12. #72
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Technically, Grond was created from a Draenor mountain and the living elements of the planet, so, everyone who came from it is native, not alien

  13. #73
    I feel like if they had more aggressively settled instead of keeping to themselves you would have complained of them oppressing said natives.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I feel like if they had more aggressively settled instead of keeping to themselves you would have complained of them oppressing said natives.
    They should have gone full Yrel back then so if the Legion came, they'd be ready to give them a good fight.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    BECAUSE said space lucifer corrupted the orcs and made them do it
    In the original lore, the Orcs wiped out the Draenei before space Lucifer showed up.

    Although, it was actually space Lucifer's lieutenant, and he made a deal with Guldan to open a portal to get in contact with an avatar of space Lucifer that was inside a human wizard.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Orcs are just 1 IQ point above being genocidal robots. Meaning, they genocide whatever and whenever they can, it's a miracle they didn't genocide themselves out of existence.
    Not sure if you did read Beyond the Dark Portal: some of them were killing each others. There were wars/hunting between their clans. So yeah...

  17. #77
    Dranei knees are bent the wrong way. Nuff said.

  18. #78
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Besides your alliance favourism / bias, you all know that OP is right

  19. #79
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    >_>
    Garrosh, who had already been poisoned and learned to hate invigorated them to go third reich.

    Try again.
    Oh please, the same dindu' logic can be applied to any race in Warcraft then and nobody is at fault for anything. There is so much you can blame on someone who tells you to kill something, at the end it's still the Orcs who took up their arms and slaughtered Draenei.

    Try again

  20. #80
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    Originally the Draenei were native to Draenor, before Metzen completely rewrote their back story of the Draenei to fit being a playable race and instead of being native to Draenor, they instead became denizens of Argus who escaped the corruption of their homeworld..

    Here Metzen explains it, because the new lore directly contradicted the lore from the Warcraft 3 manual..

    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Metzen_on_lore
    Last edited by grexly75; 2019-05-09 at 07:29 AM.

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