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  1. #61
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    blizz strongly hinted that Elune is just a Naaru, not an actual god
    for that matter, is there any real god in wow in first place if even elune is most likely just a naaru ?
    The problem is that she is atm a canon deity in the sense that she answers to no higher will other than her own. Naaru follow a cosmic force with no defined leader. Elune is unrestrained and is related to multiple alignments: arcane, light, life, and shadow/void magic. There is also no other known equivalent to her.

    I guess loa/wild gods could be considered deities too, but I see them primarily as spirits/lesser deities at most.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Orcs are not aliens to draenor, they were descendents of ogres. who were descendents of ogron, who were descendents of gronn, and those descendents of the giant (cant remember their names) the huge stone creatures we see on draenor.

    but yes the orcs had no name for the planet, so the draenei named it and the orcs went "sure"
    It really depends on your definition of "native".

    Grond (the stone giant) was created by Aggramar to counter the Primals of Draenor. As far as we know the Apexis (the Arakkoa called themselves like this at the time) were already around at that time, too.
    Is Grond a "native" to Draenor? He was not "born" there...his "parents" were not immigrants...he was created there, sure...but by an external, alien force. So i would argue Grond was not native to Draenor and therefore none of his descendants were either.

    If you look at the most common use of the word "native" it is to segregate descendants of european settlers from the "native" population of the US...even though those "natives" most likely were also the descendants of immigrants...just much earlier.

    And yes, i realize that by this definition Humans are not native to Azeroth either. I can live with that. It's the story Blizzard wrote.

  3. #63
    most of the issues with Draenei have to do with the fubar'd retconning they did.

    draenei being original residents of outland when illidan went in and took over the black temple before any acknowledgement or inkling of eredar being a corrupted species recruited into the legion. The 'lost ones' were the ONLY draenei and found near teh dark portal and swamp of sorrows.


    That said, making the Draenei, uncorrupted eredar ones that is, have a leader who sees the future with accuracy... who are guided by beings that are almost godlike... who then choose to allow themselves to be massacred and refuse to really defend themselves because of some prophet's teachings... is kind of dumb.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Synros View Post
    The only reason the orcs were corrupted in the first place, and why Draenor was destroyed, was a direct result of the Draenei's selfish and inconsiderate actions. What exactly are you not understanding here?...
    If that were the only reason, then why did the Legion use them to attack Azeroth? They could have walked away and let the orcs murder each other. And why did the Legion corrupt the nathrezim, the eredar, or the night elves? None of those were tied to "exterminating the draenei." If you think that Kil'jaeden saw the potential for the orcs and would've just skipped over them had the draenei not been there, then I think you're underestimating the Legion's motivation to corrupt powerful races across the universe.

  5. #65
    Orcs are children of the titans as well, through their descent from ogres, gronn, giants, etc. So they're just as alien to Draenor as the Draenei are, according to the logic of Hordlets who call humans, dwarves, and gnomes non-native and that Azeroth belongs to trolls and Tauren.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Orcs are children of the titans as well, through their descent from ogres, gronn, giants, etc. So they're just as alien to Draenor as the Draenei are, according to the logic of Hordlets who call humans, dwarves, and gnomes non-native and that Azeroth belongs to trolls and Tauren.
    weren't ogres, gronn, etc natural creatures on the planet while humans, dwarves, and gnomes are descended from constructs inflicted with the curse of flesh?

  7. #67
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    weren't ogres, gronn, etc natural creatures on the planet while humans, dwarves, and gnomes are descended from constructs inflicted with the curse of flesh?
    no,both are descendents of creations of the titans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  8. #68
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Settle on primitive world full of shamans worshiping rocks and fire.

    Be so full of yourself that you rename their planet after your race.
    The planet had no name. And the orcs didn't seem to mind it, so what's the problem?

    You also have a prophet as a leader who knows for a fact that he is being pursued by space Lucifer and its only a matter of time before space Lucifer catches up
    What would you do, instead, if you were the leader of the draenei? Surrender and die in Argus? Keep in mind the draenei were nowhere near as strong to fight the Legion.

    The orcs and ogres of this world have no greater concept of evil
    They hunted and killed each other before the draenei even reached that planet. Conflicts and wars between clans was a thing that existed already.

    And you do absolutely nothing to warn them of the great evil that is coming
    How do you know that?

    And because your race remained secluded and hid away from the world instead of trying to coexist with the natural inhabitants, you get purged.
    How do you know that? Warlords of Draenor seem to indicate that attempting to barter with the orcs never ended peacefully.

    Oh and the Naaru that you brought to this world is now evil getting up to no good
    ... What?

    Proceed to leave Draenor a fel shattered rock and try to play the victim about it
    Are you really going to play "blame the victim"? The draenei were slaughtered in troves, to the point their skeletal remains literally paved a road.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  9. #69
    I can't really accept the premise of the thread because it's not like the Legion would stay at home smoking joints if the Draenei didn't exist. At worst KJ's chase made his demons target some worlds over others, but given that the Legion is hellbent on conquering or razing literally every single world in existence the difference doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

    And it's not like Velen made KJ chase him over a grudge for 25 000 years anyway. Whereas the Orcs, or at least their leadership, chose to wield the Fel and doomed themselves willingly.

  10. #70
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Technically, Grond was created from a Draenor mountain and the living elements of the planet, so, everyone who came from it is native, not alien

  11. #71
    I feel like if they had more aggressively settled instead of keeping to themselves you would have complained of them oppressing said natives.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    BECAUSE said space lucifer corrupted the orcs and made them do it
    In the original lore, the Orcs wiped out the Draenei before space Lucifer showed up.

    Although, it was actually space Lucifer's lieutenant, and he made a deal with Guldan to open a portal to get in contact with an avatar of space Lucifer that was inside a human wizard.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Orcs are just 1 IQ point above being genocidal robots. Meaning, they genocide whatever and whenever they can, it's a miracle they didn't genocide themselves out of existence.
    Not sure if you did read Beyond the Dark Portal: some of them were killing each others. There were wars/hunting between their clans. So yeah...

  14. #74
    Dranei knees are bent the wrong way. Nuff said.

  15. #75
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Besides your alliance favourism / bias, you all know that OP is right

  16. #76
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    >_>
    Garrosh, who had already been poisoned and learned to hate invigorated them to go third reich.

    Try again.
    Oh please, the same dindu' logic can be applied to any race in Warcraft then and nobody is at fault for anything. There is so much you can blame on someone who tells you to kill something, at the end it's still the Orcs who took up their arms and slaughtered Draenei.

    Try again

  17. #77
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    Originally the Draenei were native to Draenor, before Metzen completely rewrote their back story of the Draenei to fit being a playable race and instead of being native to Draenor, they instead became denizens of Argus who escaped the corruption of their homeworld..

    Here Metzen explains it, because the new lore directly contradicted the lore from the Warcraft 3 manual..

    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Metzen_on_lore
    Last edited by grexly75; 2019-05-09 at 07:29 AM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Be Draenei

    Settle on primitive world full of shamans worshiping rocks and fire.

    Be so full of yourself that you rename their planet after your race.

    You also have a prophet as a leader who knows for a fact that he is being pursued by space Lucifer and its only a matter of time before space Lucifer catches up

    The orcs and ogres of this world have no greater concept of evil

    And you do absolutely nothing to warn them of the great evil that is coming

    AND IN A MOVE THAT SURPRISED NO ONE SPACE LUCIFER WAS ABLE TO CORRUPT PRIMITIVES

    And because your race remained secluded and hid away from the world instead of trying to coexist with the natural inhabitants, you get purged.

    Oh and the Naaru that you brought to this world is now evil getting up to no good

    Proceed to leave Draenor a fel shattered rock and try to play the victim about it
    Oh,look at that,another bullshit thread from this author! The miles this guy is ready to go,so that he doesn't have to feel bad about playing the horde. Try better next time. Blaming draenei for running away from the Burning Legion,is like blaming the jews for hiding,instead of staying at their homes and awaiting to be killed by nazis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Orcs are just 1 IQ point above being genocidal robots. Meaning, they genocide whatever and whenever they can, it's a miracle they didn't genocide themselves out of existence.
    Actually,they almost did. If the portal wouldn't open and they wouldn't get a new target - Stormwind - they would eventually kill each other.

  19. #79
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    i agree draenei are evil sinful creatures and sin'dorei are the dominant master race. @Celista

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    This just confirms my suspicions. Time-traveling elves are responsible for everything. Clearly, they went back in time and corrupted Sageras. And that led to everything else!
    i will not stand by and listen to you besmirch the good name of elves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    Orcs try to genocide Draenei, it doesn't work and bad things happen. Must be the Draenei's fault.
    damn right it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Humorous how in real world, a certain kingdom's pilgrims did the same thing to a "new world" to the west. We now call that place 'Murica.



    Yeah, in that regard, Draenei are dicks. Velen himself had to own up to that in a way when Illidan threw it in his face during Legion that he is more or less an interstellar coward, running from his problems and vicariously bringing his problems to others' doorsteps, namely Orcs and eventually denizens of Azeroth. The corruption of the Orcs can be blamed solely on Velen and the Draenei and justifiably so.



    Pretty much on point.
    funny those people originally came from england.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    Dranei knees are bent the wrong way. Nuff said.
    plus they are space hussies.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  20. #80
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    BECAUSE said space lucifer corrupted the orcs and made them do it
    >made them

    They literally chose to drink the Fel Blood.

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