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  1. #121
    Over 9000! Syegfryed's Avatar
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    "don't blame a killer, like, we gonna die anyway"

    If the draeneis never land in draenor who know how many hundread of years draenor could survive, and maybe even evolve, so they would not be so nave to believe the Legion

    And if the Legion land there, at least it would be in their own

    Velen and the draenei had the obligation to do anything they could to warn the other races, and not live like nothing was going to happen, they could even create a strong defense in there if every race was so advanced as they.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, they didn't. But in the WoD timeline, they did... and drank it, anyways.
    but in wod they didn't drink demon blood

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    but in wod they didn't drink demon blood
    Yes, they did. Gul'dan offered a second helping of demon blood after the Blackrock Foundry. Grommash refused, but basically everyone else did, Kilrogg included. Did you forget the entire questing in Tanaan Jungle and Hellfire Citadel?
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  3. #123
    Mechagnome saintminya's Avatar
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    Sargeras' primary goal was Azeroth. He wanted world-souls. If the Legion still happened across Draenor either before or after reaching Azeroth, it'd likely still get wrecked. The Orcs could have had several more centuries or millennia on their home planet in the meantime if not for the Draenei.

    @Trippz, this is a thread about the Draenei's role in the destruction of Draenor. It is a fact that Kil'jaeden was drawn to the planet because of Velen and his lot. It is also a fact that the Draenei did absolutely nothing to prevent its destruction. Just as it is a fact that the majority of the Orc population were shamanic and peaceful prior to KJ's arrival. My only assumption was the possibility that Draenor could have been left unharmed, which doesn't change the fact that the Draenei caused its harm.

  4. #124
    The Patient Valkari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    Did you play WoD? There was no corruption needed for the Orcs going all third reich style on the Draenei.
    To be fair, that just needed azeroth Hitler (Garrosh) to come in and corrupt them instead. Though I suppose that depends on the timeline for some of warlord stories.

  5. #125
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, they did. Gul'dan offered a second helping of demon blood after the Blackrock Foundry. Grommash refused, but basically everyone else did, Kilrogg included. Did you forget the entire questing in Tanaan Jungle and Hellfire Citadel?
    he is saying they didnt drink for most of wod, it wasnt till tannan jungle they drank, so everything they did before that was without demon blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  6. #126
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    If WoD proved anything about orcs, it's that once they have the means to massacre a group of people, they'll go and do it, no further reason needed, probably the only thing that held them back from attacking the Draenei pre-Garrosh was that the orcs' biggest innovation in weaponry was adding a handle to an axe...

    Demon blood? They're off rampaging. New weaponry? They're off rampaging. The only thing that keeps orcs from waging war on something is knowing they'll get their asses kicked if they attack.
    if wod proved anything, is blizz will sh8t and defile on anything in order to make more exp for cash
    also WoD isn't same universe with 'minor changes', it is a very different one, to degree that blizz 'answer' was to sh8tcon the main universe story too, which doesn't make sense when Blackhand who u can still see wc2 manual st ate him as coward has a background of 'willing to sacrifice himself for his tribe', heck Grom who was iconic lean agility warrior took too many protein shake for WoD
    but entire wod lore is a big pile of sh8t anyway so while canon don't even try to make sense of it
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  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    he is saying they didnt drink for most of wod, it wasnt till tannan jungle they drank, so everything they did before that was without demon blood.
    Perhaps not at start. But the fact they eventually drank the demon blood knowingly and willingly completely removes the "they didn't know" excuse, as it's shown that, even knowing about it, they would've likely drank it, anyways.
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  8. #128
    I am Murloc! Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    not even gonna respond to the rest as its right out ignoring massive key points
    i think you forget those are from PTR not release
    notice how that is november? because 8.1 released.
    because once 8.1 released the alliance scares off the vulpera.
    also you show two people fighting... oh god a vulpera attacking a human and said human burning a vulpera...
    oh and wait that's not even a human, thats a fucking dwarf.

    your video shows alliance fightign vulpera...
    and alliance burning some empty carts...
    ok? where do you see alliance "hunting" vulpera, i see you chose that specific word very carefully, and "burning their homes" small caravanes filled with supplies for the horde...

    You can literally see the horde supplies here, and the alliance side does not do any of this.
    we scare off the gaurds and then burn the supplies.

    if you do not want to become an enemy to the alliance, and have your homes burned
    dont transport horde supplies with your homes...
    "They burned down their homes!" which were filled with horde supplies...
    "They attacked them!" cause they were defending horde supplies...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDRNp9N49QA

    This video is from 3 months ago and nope blizzard only changed the name from Purge Squad to "despoilers" but you still see dead Vulperas and burned caravans.
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  9. #129
    Over 9000! Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, they did. Gul'dan offered a second helping of demon blood after the Blackrock Foundry. Grommash refused, but basically everyone else did, Kilrogg included. Did you forget the entire questing in Tanaan Jungle and Hellfire Citadel?
    an, you are talking about this scenario, but how this correlate with the drinking and the attack on the draenei? cause not "everyone drink" the maghar are from various clans who didn't

    Also, tons of draenei sided with the Legion as well

  10. #130
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDRNp9N49QA

    This video is from 3 months ago and nope blizzard only changed the name from Purge Squad to "despoilers" but you still see dead Vulperas and burned caravans.
    Burned caravans filled with horde supplies
    and dead vulpera guards, guarding horde supplies...

    since when has been attacking supply lines evil?
    the vulpera are part of the horde
    they are sending supplies to the horde
    and killing guards

    these are not innocent defencless vulpera being attacked in their homes
    these are carvans carrying horde supplies with armed guards being attacked by the alliance
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  11. #131
    Over 9000! Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Perhaps not at start. But the fact they eventually drank the demon blood knowingly and willingly completely removes the "they didn't know" excuse, as it's shown that, even knowing about it, they would've likely drank it, anyways.
    it don't because thats two different scenarios, with tons of different variables

    if they did know it was demon blood when the war with the draenei was happening they would not drink.

  12. #132
    I am Murloc! Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Burned caravans filled with horde supplies
    and dead vulpera guards, guarding horde supplies...

    since when has been killing horde supply carts with guards been "evil"
    Those caravans are their home, and yes it's bad to kill people who aren't involved in the enemy faction but still sells products or it was ok for the nazi to destroy ships of the U.S when they were trading partners with the UK? Also yes you always take a scort for important goods in orden to ensure the civilians involved and the products have some protection.

    Also you can see fire human burning vulperas, damm I did that invasion last week with my draenei and you can see the WQ for both sides, but ok Alliance=good, Horde=Bad, happy now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    it don't because thats two different scenarios, with tons of different variables

    if they did know it was demon blood when the war with the draenei was happening they would not drink.
    That's not what the evidence tells us. The might've refused at first, but evidence tells us it's highly likely they'd have drank it, either way, knowing or not knowing.

    EDIT: Especially if their battle against the draenei wasn't faring so well.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-05-10 at 02:30 AM.
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  14. #134
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Those caravans are their home, and yes it's bad to kill people who aren't involved in the enemy faction but still sells products or it was ok for the nazi to destroy ships of the U.S when they were trading partners with the UK? Also yes you always take a scort for important goods in orden to ensure the civilians involved and the products have some protection.

    Also you can see fire human burning vulperas, damm I did that invasion last week with my draenei and you can see the WQ for both sides, but ok Alliance=good, Horde=Bad, happy now?
    No, those caravans are not their homes, they are CARAVANS filled to the brim with HORDE SUPPLIES
    not involved in the enemy faction? THEY ARE LITERALLY CARRYING HORDE SUPPLIES.

    also funny you compare to IRL when the whole reason nazi germany fell is because we attacked their supply lines that followed their blitzkrieg, and luckily made them run dry of ammo and rations. funny.

    The vulpera made themselves soldiers when they raised arms
    the vulpera made themselves part of the fight when they started carting around horde supplies

    you are seriously stretching to bounds that are just gymnastics at this point
    trash loa for a reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  15. #135
    Over 9000! Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That's not what the evidence tells us. The might've refused at first, but evidence tells us it's highly likely they'd have drank it, either way, knowing or not knowing.

    EDIT: Especially if their battle against the draenei wasn't faring so well.
    thats false, evidence show they would not, Grom was a warmonger with thirst of power and was the first to drink, but when he knew what it was he totally refused, they would rather die in the battle than drink demon juju

    The second scenario again, is different with different variables

  16. #136
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thats false, evidence show they would not, Grom was a warmonger with thirst of power and was the first to drink, but when he knew what it was he totally refused, they would rather die in the battle than drink demon juju

    The second scenario again, is different with different variables
    didnt he then drink the demon juju again anyways..?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thats false, evidence show they would not, Grom was a warmonger with thirst of power and was the first to drink, but when he knew what it was he totally refused, they would rather die in the battle than drink demon juju
    And then Gul'dan came with a second helping, and Grommash refused again. But then guess what? Kil'rogg drank it... and a plethora of orcs followed.

    The second scenario again, is different with different variables
    This "second scenario is different with different variables" doesn't really work here, because the moment the orcs refuse to drink the demon blood in "original scenario"... it is no longer the "original scenario". It's now a "different scenario with different variables".

    But you know what? You say the orcs wouldn't willingly drink demon blood. So let me ask you did: did you just happen to play the orc campaign in Warcraft 3? Where orcs... drank demon blood willingly and knowingly? And this second time is even worse, because they knew of the consequences, this second time.

    The point is: orcs have been shown to want to drink demon blood for power.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
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  18. #138
    I really like how the Orcs's conscious decision to dabble in obviously Bad News magic and genocide everything in sight is the fault of literally everyone but the Orcs.

    Using the amazing logic on display here, the Forsaken are totally to blame for Arthas.

  19. #139
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And then Gul'dan came with a second helping, and Grommash refused again. But then guess what? Kil'rogg drank it... and a plethora of orcs followed.


    This "second scenario is different with different variables" doesn't really work here, because the moment the orcs refuse to drink the demon blood in "original scenario"... it is no longer the "original scenario". It's now a "different scenario with different variables".

    But you know what? You say the orcs wouldn't willingly drink demon blood. So let me ask you did: did you just happen to play the orc campaign in Warcraft 3? Where orcs... drank demon blood willingly and knowingly? And this second time is even worse, because they knew of the consequences, this second time.

    The point is: orcs have been shown to want to drink demon blood for power.
    remember when the orcs sacrificed humans in hopes it would get them more demon blood, cause they wanted it so bad?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Be so full of yourself that you rename their planet after your race.
    Nothing wrong with that. It's up to everyone else how they call their world, and apparently they liked the word "Draenor" that it caught on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    You also have a prophet as a leader who knows for a fact that he is being pursued by space Lucifer and its only a matter of time before space Lucifer catches up

    The orcs and ogres of this world have no greater concept of evil

    And you do absolutely nothing to warn them of the great evil that is coming

    I don't think you realize how utterly vast space is.
    The chances that the Legion would've been able to find their city in that exact valley, on that exact continent, on that exact planet, in that exact star system, in that exact region of space, is astronomically impossible. Realistically, the Legion should've never have managed to find the Draenei. The Draenei hadn't heard about Dark Portals or interplanetary portals either, let alone thought that any race on Draenor would create on. No reason to spread the word. The fact that the Burning Legion came in the first place is a coincidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    AND IN A MOVE THAT SURPRISED NO ONE SPACE LUCIFER WAS ABLE TO CORRUPT PRIMITIVES
    The fact that Ner'zhul didn't choose to re-examine the "spirit" that was talking to him and contemplate "why" is on him. The Draenei are not responsible for the Orc's choosing to follow the spirit and choosing to drink the blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    And because your race remained secluded and hid away from the world instead of trying to coexist with the natural inhabitants, you get purged.
    They did trade and have relations; each race simply tended to keep to themselves, just as how the races of Azeroth tended to keep to themselves whilst having limited contact with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Oh and the Naaru that you brought to this world is now evil getting up to no good
    The Light and the Naaru were unquestionably good beings from their inception in WC3 for thirteen years, until post-modernist writing retconned them into being "just another side of the same coin" as the shadow/void/whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Proceed to leave Draenor a fel shattered rock and try to play the victim about it
    They are victims.

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