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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    But what if the market is shifting in exactly that direction? Consume, move on, repeat. The growing market for phone games and quick matches could be the legitimate future of gaming. It is entirely possible that by making these changes that WoW has actually retained a far better player base than they even should have. (We don’t have enough data to know.)
    You need to drop that "market thought" asap.

    That is not how things work. Markets in the real world shift towards sustainability and eco friendly shit. Bikes and eCars are the thing now. Does that matter to me? No, I don't give a fuck. I want to drive a Porsche, no matter what. Should Porsche drop their sports cars and start catering towards those people who want to ride bikes? Fuck no. They won't jump on the bandwagon.

    The same thing works for games. Yes, 12 year olds may want that quick Fortnite ADHD battle royale MOBA games. Those people who played WoW 15 years ago very likely still want to play an MMO that has slow and steady progression. MMO people are different than MOBA/BR people. If you open up to MOBA/BR people, you will very likely lose a majority of MMO people. This is what has happened to WoW.

    Blizzard made the mistake of trying to attract people that don't want to play MMOs, at the same time losing those that want to. The result is a game that is neither an MMO nor anything else and has one band aid "fix" on another.

  2. #322
    This title should be , more like a cuck players dream. Lets be real man I played 8.2 PTR and it aint exciting unless you turn on warmode and enjoy getting butt ramed in those pvp objective points lol. No wonder nazjatar looks so empty on pve . It's expected to do rotating objectives in warmode hot spots.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    he doesnt - because without 3000+ ret...rd.io you cannot do anything in this game anymore

    therefore he is cheerfull he will have finally content to farm.

    what is hard to understand here
    This part:
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    The hardest content i do right now is LFR or Mythic 0 dungeons...and to be quite honest there is nothing else to do as a casual player.
    You can do many things. Especially when it comes to harder instance content. I don't usually care about score when doing my 10-15 keys and I'm sure there are others like me.
    Well met!

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Sure it doesnt matter. Now, go and try to defeat a 245K HP warlock with a 185K HP whatever.

    Even if you master that whatever, you will absofuckinglutely never defeat a 60ilvls higher geared player as long as he is playing decently.
    Yea let's take an absurdly high ilvl difference to justify that ilvl does matter in pvp...

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Yea let's take an absurdly high ilvl difference to justify that ilvl does matter in pvp...
    But i actually am 370 ilvl and fighting 400 ilvl opponents :S
    Im getting rekt hard.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    It isnt about them. It is about casual players like myself what had normal/heroic raid progression destroyed by world Q. People.just quit doing this type of content becouse why bother whem you get same gear by dping mindless content. It invalidates content thats problem. And as i said i am not mythic raider. Buffing emissary to heroic raiding gear have alredy killed many casual raiding guilds and this will be last nail. If you think this system keeps people playing than i have bad news for you. It actualy makes people quit faster.
    I don't know about you, but I don't raid only for the gear, yes it's an incentive, but I raid to have fun with my mates and enjoy killing a boss after X number of attemps, that's the main reason I raid.

    I'm ok with people who don't want to raid to get a progression system simple, that also helps heroic raiders that are stuck, yes they exist and I'm one of them.

    This benthic gear won't affect in any way the fun we have raiding.

    I will never understand people who only play a game to have a "Gold frame" and not for fun, But if we can respect that, and you still get your "Gold frame" doing content casuals will never be able to beat then what's the goddam problem? I can't see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    The inversion of this argument is that you think people should feel forced to raid for gear even if they dont want to be raiding.

    If people quit raiding because new sources of comparable gear become available, those people are raiding only as a means to acquire gear and not because they have fun raiding. Why do you think it is appropriate to hold people hostage to a content type that is not enjoyable to them? Putting equivalent gear on different content does not invalidate either type of content; raiding still provides that same gear, and in a much faster timeframe. What it does do is give an alternative option to people who do not enjoy raiding to not raid.

    Broadly speaking, you are in the business of taking and holding hostages in order to support a style of gameplay that you enjoy, but others do not.
    This right here! 100% agreed

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by eduwneso View Post
    I don't know about you, but I don't raid only for the gear, yes it's an incentive, but I raid to have fun with my mates and enjoy killing a boss after X number of attemps, that's the main reason I raid.

    I'm ok with people who don't want to raid to get a progression system simple, that also helps heroic raiders that are stuck, yes they exist and I'm one of them.

    This benthic gear won't affect in any way the fun we have raiding.

    I will never understand people who only play a game to have a "Gold frame" and not for fun, But if we can respect that, and you still get your "Gold frame" doing content casuals will never be able to beat then what's the goddam problem? I can't see it.

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    This right here! 100% agreed
    What gold frame? Useless achievement? Mounts what can be refarmed by anyone next tier or expansio? Transmog what can again be farmed by anyone next expansion? Gear what anyone can get by doing mindless world content? What gold frame is there? I dont see anything worth my effort. Yes there should be exclusive rewards for doing higher difficulty content. Exclusivity in past came from content it self. By doing raids you get to see content and get exclusive gear which was huge drive for playres to do raiding. Than they removed see content by adding diffuculty levels ala LFR and now even they removed gear as inciative while Blizz didnt add any exclusive rewards to high end content. Why there isnt exclusive seasonal transmog rewards for finishing +15 mythic+ or mythic raid? Blizzard get rid of every single inciative to do high end content just for sake some entilted casuals can get their hands on gear what they dont need at all. Throwing at people free 430 heroic loot for sake of progressin without any challenge or effort is absolutly insane and it do not keep players longer becouse they have no emocional connetion to effort vs reward. It is hollow feelling and makes people dont care. And if people dont care they start quiting game.

    Imagine League od Legends had raiting system what will allow pro players reach high rank in 1 week. Than you would have casuals what are not that good or no willing to put effort but those people could still reach high raiting just by playing longer. That game would instaly die.
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-05-13 at 03:49 PM.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    The hardest content i do right now is LFR or Mythic 0 dungeons...and to be quite honest there is nothing else to do as a casual player.

    Now comes Nazjatar.
    And you are telling me...i will now be able to be ilvl 430...without RNG...farming world content...everyday...for weeks?
    And then i need to go to Mechagon to farm weapons, rings and trinkets?
    And then i need to farm world content to unlock the neckpiece talents?

    Man...seems like an adventure to me specially with warmode on.

    Am i missing something important? Or is it really true that a casual player will have all this things to do?
    Seems dreamy.

    Additional Information:

    1) Some quick Math IF you are able to get 10 Pearls per day (not sure how many pearls you can get per day/week)



    2) The pearl items are bind on account on PTR, meaning you can farm them on several alts and funnel them to your main character
    Pearls can be farmed so you can get the gear based on how much time you are willing to spend farming them.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  9. #329
    Gear should not matter in PVP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Pearls can be farmed so you can get the gear based on how much time you are willing to spend farming them.
    Which way can you farm them?

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    Gear should not matter in PVP.

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    Which way can you farm them?
    Rares, and apparently there are chests that appear with them.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    Gear should not matter in PVP.

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    Which way can you farm them?
    When they created templates and pretty much removed gear from pvp players quit doing pvp. This is mmorpg not compettive game ala LoL or Dota. Gear should matter everywhere.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    When they created templates and pretty much removed gear from pvp players quit doing pvp. This is mmorpg not compettive game ala LoL or Dota. Gear should matter everywhere.
    Yeah i agree. Gear should always matter in a MMO

    I deserve to get rekt in front of Stormwind because i didnt put in the work.

    Im just happy in Nazjatar i can "put in the work" in content i enjoy doing...and get power in PvP.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Yeah i agree. Gear should always matter in a MMO

    I deserve to get rekt in front of Stormwind because i didnt put in the work.

    Im just happy in Nazjatar i can "put in the work" in content i enjoy doing...and get power in PvP.
    U do know you can do Pvp and get gear too right ? Like skirmishes , arena, rated bGs ... ?

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by kubaje View Post
    You need to drop that "market thought" asap.

    That is not how things work. Markets in the real world shift towards sustainability and eco friendly shit. Bikes and eCars are the thing now. Does that matter to me? No, I don't give a fuck. I want to drive a Porsche, no matter what. Should Porsche drop their sports cars and start catering towards those people who want to ride bikes? Fuck no. They won't jump on the bandwagon.

    I am much the same way (more of a Mustang fan though)... but I, and apparently you, are not really the target audience “the market” of the future. That’s more what I was getting at. Not that older gamers are all ate up with the desire to change... more that the newer generation is accepting the change in a big way. And they outnumber us.

    I don’t know a lot about Porsches, but it would not surprise me if they were already embracing some features that might be considered abominations to a traditionalist (video screens, usb, Bluetooth, wi-fi, gps systems). Those would be lesser, but still present, examples of moving towards the market.



    The same thing works for games. Yes, 12 year olds may want that quick Fortnite ADHD battle royale MOBA games. Those people who played WoW 15 years ago very likely still want to play an MMO that has slow and steady progression. MMO people are different than MOBA/BR people. If you open up to MOBA/BR people, you will very likely lose a majority of MMO people. This is what has happened to WoW.

    Blizzard made the mistake of trying to attract people that don't want to play MMOs, at the same time losing those that want to. The result is a game that is neither an MMO nor anything else and has one band aid "fix" on another.

    On a minor tangent, I never had any specific interest in an MMO when I started WoW. I was interested in a D&D style questing game more than anything else. I enjoyed the ability to group with friends (specifically, the ones that dragged me into the game) but I would have been completely fine if the game maxed out at 5 or 6 people on a server.

    I spent 8 years in the game... ironically, outlasting all but one of the friends that pulled me into it (and they were all there for it as an MMO). Then the flight changes pushed me out, so I have been gone almost 5 years now. I’ve done a one month sub and a couple of free weekends since leaving.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    I am much the same way (more of a Mustang fan though)... but I, and apparently you, are not really the target audience “the market” of the future. That’s more what I was getting at. Not that older gamers are all ate up with the desire to change... more that the newer generation is accepting the change in a big way. And they outnumber us.

    I don’t know a lot about Porsches, but it would not surprise me if they were already embracing some features that might be considered abominations to a traditionalist (video screens, usb, Bluetooth, wi-fi, gps systems). Those would be lesser, but still present, examples of moving towards the market.






    On a minor tangent, I never had any specific interest in an MMO when I started WoW. I was interested in a D&D style questing game more than anything else. I enjoyed the ability to group with friends (specifically, the ones that dragged me into the game) but I would have been completely fine if the game maxed out at 5 or 6 people on a server.

    I spent 8 years in the game... ironically, outlasting all but one of the friends that pulled me into it (and they were all there for it as an MMO). Then the flight changes pushed me out, so I have been gone almost 5 years now. I’ve done a one month sub and a couple of free weekends since leaving.
    I should point out that Porsche already have multiple hybrid vehicles, and soon to be launched full electric vehicle, and ford are working on a hybrid mustang.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I don't know why you wasted your time being wrong either. Let's all agree that heroics can be as easy as doing 4 WQ just to show you how ridiculous it is to compare 5 man content to WQ.

    If you are unlucky, right now, you get 1 emmisary a week that rewards a 395. Guaranteed loot. This week I have had 4 emmisaries turn up with 395 hear guaranteed. No tricks. No bullshit. Guaranteed loot that is a sliver worse than heroic raid gear. 4 pieces of heroic raid gear for 2 hours work (cause I'm slow and watching tv).

    Think about that. A piece of heroic level gear for 30 mins work if you are shit. How long did it take to get the equivalent in wrath? 5 frost badges for your first dungeon and 2 for each one after that. 7 X 5 is 35 + let's say 10 more a day for 5 extra dungeons a day. Total 105 badges a week. To get gear 26 ilvls below max and that gives you 1 piece a week. 1 piece for 10+ hours a week.

    I want you to apologise to everyone you have been bullying in this thread with your completely unfounded accusations.

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    [.
    DAAAAAAAAAAAAMN - when two people are having a disagreement, and player 3 enters the fight and absolutely devastates the competition, leaving me standing there covered in dust from the utter devastation unleashed upon the poor, unsuspecting victim.

    FaTaLiTy - Munkeyinorbit WINS!

    That Logic-Bomb just crit Jastall for 150,000 (145,000 overkill)

    How DARE you bring facts and reality into an internet disagreement.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Rares, and apparently there are chests that appear with them.
    They should really have a weekly (not daily) cap honestly

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    They should really have a weekly (not daily) cap honestly
    I cant remember the resets / caps to be honest, however the fact its BOA means you can just farm it on 10+ characters and funnel it all into one character, so it absolutely encourages endless farming.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I cant remember the resets / caps to be honest, however the fact its BOA means you can just farm it on 10+ characters and funnel it all into one character, so it absolutely encourages endless farming.
    Sounds like a strong negative tbh, not that I really care, but people are going to burn out like crazy.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Sounds like a strong negative tbh, not that I really care, but people are going to burn out like crazy.
    Oh to be clear, i absolutely think the entire system is a negative, and it absolutely leaves the door open to people feeling (right or wrong) like they need to do everything on 3 characters, 6 characters, 12 characters - whatever they have. If the gear was 400ilvl max, that would remove some of the incentive for sure.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Oh to be clear, i absolutely think the entire system is a negative, and it absolutely leaves the door open to people feeling (right or wrong) like they need to do everything on 3 characters, 6 characters, 12 characters - whatever they have. If the gear was 400ilvl max, that would remove some of the incentive for sure.
    I don't think they need to lower the gear at all, currency systems like this work wonders to fill in bad RNG, I just feel it needs a cap and to not be account wide, much like Valor back in the day.

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