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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Yes it is a problem.

    It invalidates 2/4 raid difficulties for progression. Which is supposed to be one of the two main endgame progression sources alongside Mythic +.

    This gear should go to 400 at most. That's it.
    Invalidates what where for whom exactly? Anyone who is half-serious about raiding does normal and heroic progression on week1. The token gear will have zero impact on that. It is a long term catch-up. If a person would decide to not raid because he can get same gear somewhere down the line - that’s on him, really. A fair choice, that has nothing to do with token gear. I personally decided to skip dazaralor threadmill because the gear will get invalidated in 8.2, should they not release more raid tier so the raids don’t get invalidated.

    If token gear “invalidates” the raid to the point where one does not have to farm heroic raid for 4 months to get 430 gear and instead can do it in 2 with a combination of two - i’m All up for it. As any sensible person will be.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yes becouse you are that part of entilted casual audience. But this part of community was never majority.
    Yet Blizzard keep catering to that part of the community, so either Blizzard are *massively* misguided despite all the data at their disposal, or they know something you don't... :3

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Yet Blizzard keep catering to that part of the community, so either Blizzard are *massively* misguided despite all the data at their disposal, or they know something you don't... :3
    Well considering it's the only part of the community left these days besides Mythic raiders what do you expect?

    Majority of players quit this expansion. And it's showing when they are adding catch up gear this strong so early on to try and lure them back.

  4. #124
    can't wait for the tears once people realize that giving heroic itemlevel gear to farmable world content with 0 difficulty involved will make pug requirements so absurdly high...

    but blame r.io or the elitist, i don't know man.

    I like the upgradeable system but 430 seems way to high

  5. #125
    "Raid or die" is a thing of the past. Get over it.

    Organised raiding is (and always was) a minority activity only about 10% of players participated in. What do you care if non organized players (again: majority of wow players) can grind a couple months for 430 gear? Heroic raiders will have their 430 gear a hell of a lot faster than that.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Well considering it's the only part of the community left these days besides Mythic raiders what do you expect?

    Majority of players quit this expansion. And it's showing when they are adding catch up gear this strong so early on to try and lure them back.
    Casuals have always kept this game afloat. The appeal of WoW in the first place was that it was more casual than its predecessors.

    Anyway this system doesn't invalidate shit. Here's the vendor gear to fill in holes that people were whining about since the start of BfA. If you're raiding in any capacity you're going to gear up way faster than a casual is going to get a full set of this gear and you're still going to perform better than them so why does it matter? You'll have the same or better level gear from farming your pug difficulty raid ages before the casual has a decent amount of this gear.

    Where do you draw the line of not enough effort to warrant any gear progression? Do I get to say that anyone not raiding Mythic doesn't deserve any gear because literally all other content in the game is total faceroll for me?
    AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there?| FOR THE HORDE | I might make you angry but I'm right.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    I did all wings of LfR once on my main, for quests, achievements and seeing the lore, and CoS once on my alt as well (To see if anything looks/sounds/appears different without that “Gift of N’Zoth”-buff, seemed the same to me), but i don’t really enjoy LfR anymore, the fights are too complicated and cluster*beep*-y, that it’s not really fun to do anymore...

    ...and BoD/CoS gear was surpassed by WQs anyway when the raids opened up, so i’m fine with that, i can work at character progression (The whole idea of RPGs) at my own pace, just like i did back in Wrath, and Nazjatar/Mechagon seem to provide the same, and i like it!
    I agree with all you say about current LFR. It's neither enjoyable nor rewarding like it once was. It was at it's best in MoP, IMO. I'm really hoping that Mechagon and Nazjatar are enjoyable for reasons other than gear, so that they feel like something worth coming back to even after you've mined the ilvl from them.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  8. #128
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    I mean, it really depends on how fast you can get this gear, and it doesn't give you every slot to begin with.

    Just because it gives you gear above heroic iLvL doesn't mean you're going to get it right away. Do people not remember how powerful badge gear was in TBC when the Sunwell badge vendor opened up, or how consistently powerful several badge items were every patch in WoTLK (you could get two pieces of tier in WoTLK). This isn't anything new.

    Is the TF cap really 445? That doesn't make much sense considering the last bump was from 395 to 425. I would have expected it to be 455. Heroic dungeons and M+ giving 430 gear, and Mythic raids giving 445.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    I mean, it really depends on how fast you can get this gear, and it doesn't give you every slot to begin with.

    Just because it gives you gear above heroic iLvL doesn't mean you're going to get it right away. Do people not remember how powerful badge gear was in TBC when the Sunwell badge vendor opened up, or how consistently powerful several badge items were every patch in WoTLK (you could get two pieces of tier in WoTLK). This isn't anything new.

    Is the TF cap really 445? That doesn't make much sense considering the last bump was from 395 to 425. I would have expected it to be 455. Heroic dungeons and M+ giving 430 gear, and Mythic raids giving 445.
    Mechagon gives the rest supposedly.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Anyway this system doesn't invalidate shit. Here's the vendor gear to fill in holes that people were whining about since the start of BfA. If you're raiding in any capacity you're going to gear up way faster than a casual is going to get a full set of this gear and you're still going to perform better than them so why does it matter? You'll have the same or better level gear from farming your pug difficulty raid ages before the casual has a decent amount of this gear.
    What it does invalidate, for the more casual player, is raiding at all i.e. LFR. Like I've already said I've barely scratched LFR this expansion and my toons, while not swimming in high ilvl, all surpass anything I could've acquired from LFR. And most likely from Normal as well, if I cared about that.

    Now, I'm not completely complaining because I find the BfA raids to be boring and uninteresting so I'm happy there's no reason for me to do them (plus the transmog is horrid, so there's not even that carrot). But raiding, even just LFR, paces out the gear acquisition in a way that keeps you coming back for months to try and fill that last hole. So it serves a useful purpose for the life of the game. Right now I'm beyond bored with BfA because all systems are designed to funnel gear to the player rather than fun and the WQ/Emissaries/Warfronts have dominated that funneling for anyone that does anything less than Heroic raiding/High keystones.

    I'm not sure if I like the way they're doing it or not. I kinda miss my weekly LFR runs but at the same time I've hated BfA raids so I can't really decide.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalvia View Post
    can't wait for the tears once people realize that giving heroic itemlevel gear to farmable world content with 0 difficulty involved will make pug requirements so absurdly high...

    but blame r.io or the elitist, i don't know man.

    I like the upgradeable system but 430 seems way to high
    it takes so long to be fully geared by the time you get it there no time for Mythic+ or raids anyways above lfr lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    What it does invalidate, for the more casual player, is raiding at all i.e. LFR. Like I've already said I've barely scratched LFR this expansion and my toons, while not swimming in high ilvl, all surpass anything I could've acquired from LFR. And most likely from Normal as well, if I cared about that.

    Now, I'm not completely complaining because I find the BfA raids to be boring and uninteresting so I'm happy there's no reason for me to do them (plus the transmog is horrid, so there's not even that carrot). But raiding, even just LFR, paces out the gear acquisition in a way that keeps you coming back for months to try and fill that last hole. So it serves a useful purpose for the life of the game. Right now I'm beyond bored with BfA because all systems are designed to funnel gear to the player rather than fun and the WQ/Emissaries/Warfronts have dominated that funneling for anyone that does anything less than Heroic raiding/High keystones.

    I'm not sure if I like the way they're doing it or not. I kinda miss my weekly LFR runs but at the same time I've hated BfA raids so I can't really decide.
    I have to agree the raid gear looks so bad that im more of a world only quester with some events in the mix now that i do and some world bosses i can't stand timed content so i dont do Mythic+ anymore did it in legion tired of it in BFA.

  12. #132
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    Okay so I had to look it up to be sure.

    Heroic raids and higher level M+ dungeons give 430 gear next patch. Mythic is 445. I'll presume that the iLvL cap is 455 because that follows the trend.

    Not sure how 430 gear that omits several slots, had pre-determined stats, and takes awhile to farm obsoletes any difficulty other than normal difficulty. In reality, it doesn't even obsolete normal difficulty right away considering you can do normal right away and the gear can WF/TF/Socket.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Okay so I had to look it up to be sure.

    Heroic raids and higher level M+ dungeons give 430 gear next patch. Mythic is 445. I'll presume that the iLvL cap is 455 because that follows the trend.

    Not sure how 430 gear that omits several slots, had pre-determined stats, and takes awhile to farm obsoletes any difficulty other than normal difficulty. In reality, it doesn't even obsolete normal difficulty right away considering you can do normal right away and the gear can WF/TF/Socket.
    CAN.

    And there is the problem. It has to be reliant on RNG upon RNG.

    And supposedly the omitted stuff is on Mechagon.

    So no it invalidates Heroic because players think they deserve this gear. It should be 400 and no higher at most.#

    And people wonder why the game is in the state its in.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    What it does invalidate, for the more casual player, is raiding at all i.e. LFR. Like I've already said I've barely scratched LFR this expansion and my toons, while not swimming in high ilvl, all surpass anything I could've acquired from LFR. And most likely from Normal as well, if I cared about that.

    Now, I'm not completely complaining because I find the BfA raids to be boring and uninteresting so I'm happy there's no reason for me to do them (plus the transmog is horrid, so there's not even that carrot). But raiding, even just LFR, paces out the gear acquisition in a way that keeps you coming back for months to try and fill that last hole. So it serves a useful purpose for the life of the game. Right now I'm beyond bored with BfA because all systems are designed to funnel gear to the player rather than fun and the WQ/Emissaries/Warfronts have dominated that funneling for anyone that does anything less than Heroic raiding/High keystones.

    I'm not sure if I like the way they're doing it or not. I kinda miss my weekly LFR runs but at the same time I've hated BfA raids so I can't really decide.
    What do you think is better?

    1) Doing LFR 1-2 days per week
    2)Farming world content everyday, every week, possibly on different toons

    I think what this games needs is number 2)

    Tired of only logging in only once every week to do activities.
    This seems more "fun" to me in terms of kepping me busy.

    But everyone has different opinions.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    CAN.

    And there is the problem. It has to be reliant on RNG upon RNG.

    And supposedly the omitted stuff is on Mechagon.

    So no it invalidates Heroic because players think they deserve this gear. It should be 400 and no higher at most.#

    And people wonder why the game is in the state its in.
    Sure buddy my que lines getting to my own server says other wise.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I agree with all you say about current LFR. It's neither enjoyable nor rewarding like it once was. It was at it's best in MoP, IMO. I'm really hoping that Mechagon and Nazjatar are enjoyable for reasons other than gear, so that they feel like something worth coming back to even after you've mined the ilvl from them.
    They tried to make LFR have some difficulty with Kil'Jaeden but people whined that it was "too hard".

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    What do you think is better?

    1) Doing LFR 1-2 days per week
    2)Farming world content everyday, every week, possibly on different toons

    I think what this games needs is number 2)

    Tired of only logging in only once every week to do activities.
    This seems more "fun" to me in terms of kepping me busy.

    But everyone has different opinions.
    Personally, I enjoyed doing LFR over the course of a day or two every week while having other activities not necessarily tied to gear to keep me occupied for the rest of the time. MoP was great at accomplishing this via dailies, Isle of Thunder and even Timeless Isle. Even WQ's in Legion were better because there were nice cosmetic rewards contained in paragon caches (yes, I know people cried non-stop about this. But I liked it) plus the chance of legendaries if you still wanted/needed them on a toon. There were fun secrets to try to obtain, I still love my Long-Forgotten Hippogryph. Even the Heroic dungeons were still rewarding in SOME way, unlike BfA Heroics which are utterly pointless.

    The problem with the current system of "farming world content" for gear is that you rapidly run out of gear you need or there's none you need available at the moment ... leaving you with nothing to do that holds any interest. I'm not farming for 75g, or 195 artifact power ... that's boring.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    The problem with the current system of "farming world content" for gear is that you rapidly run out of gear you need or there's none you need available at the moment ... leaving you with nothing to do that holds any interest. I'm not farming for 75g, or 195 artifact power ... that's boring.
    This phrase is refering to the current state of the game, correct?

    But Nazjatar fixes this, no?
    We will have a "long term goal"...everyday farming...on several toons. Work work work

    No?

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    This phrase is refering to the current state of the game, correct?

    But Nazjatar fixes this, no?
    We will have a "long term goal"...everyday farming...on several toons. Work work work

    No?
    Aren't the items for the gear BoA? Meaning you can farm up a set using alts if you wish?

    Even if not, then yes this does give a more long-term method of acquiring gear outside of raiding. But like I said, I'm not sure I like it or not. For one I do miss the weekly LFR runs, at least when the raids were good. But for the other I just want to have fun and collect mostly cosmetic things (mounts, transmog, gold, toys, etc) and not gear. That's not a sufficient reward to keep me interested in farmable content.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalvia View Post
    can't wait for the tears once people realize that giving heroic itemlevel gear to farmable world content with 0 difficulty involved will make pug requirements so absurdly high...

    but blame r.io or the elitist, i don't know man.

    I like the upgradeable system but 430 seems way to high
    I think that PuG-requirements will always be higher than solo-content can get, regardless of how high itemlevel solo-content gives, if it gives 430, PuGs will want 440, if it gives 400, PuGs will ask for 410, either way, unattainable by people PuG-ers deem “unworthy”, so i’ll take 430 gear with my order of “PuGs don’t want me anyway”, thanks.

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