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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Good for them. Always a win to not allow baby murder. A victory for common sense.
    Hahahahahaha. Yes, you're totally correct. But I am, very stupid... so could you please explain that to me? In very simple words, and in very concise terms.

    Why all abortions are baby murder, and against common sense.

    Thank you in advance.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    No, I don't see the problem. What you are insinuating is absurd. There aren't black and white rules of what outcome must happen with another person's life just because they have that right. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to defend yourself and kill someone who is threatening your life because they have the right to live. And you can't force someone to go out of their way to protect and save the life of someone else just because they have the right to live. The fact is that there are circumstances that alter how you are able to treat people according to their human rights. Those weren't trick questions, they were were stupid questions.

    You are making the mistake of thinking the argument comes down to what rights the unborn child has which is incorrect. The argument comes down to what responsibility the mother has to her own child. My stance from the beginning was that the rights of the unborn child were irrelevant because there isn't a consensus on when it is its own sovereign human entity. Again, I am pro choice. But as a thought experiment we had to examine this from the angle that both sides' opinions on when it is alive and has rights were correct and therefore the operating principle is what responsibility and rights the mother has, not the child's. And ultimately the mother who consented to conceiving the child is almost always responsible.

    But im not trying to take over the thread so ill leave it there.
    Is it me picking nonsensical stances apart that is absurd, or is it the nonsensical stances themselves that are in fact absurd, for me to pick them apart on their contradictions so easily? If one believes abortion is murdering babies, then no sort of bad excuse is going to change that. If they start making excuses on why it's ok in some cases, then it directly contradicts the entire core point. And after that, their entire argument is worth nothing at all, because they already crossed their own sacred argument that they've used to justify their actions in the first place.

    And yeah, there are pacifists who wouldn't resort to violence or killing even in self defense, so that example of yours doesn't hold up. In fact it makes my point for me: you can't call yourself pacifist anymore, if you're fully willing to break that whenever it's not convenient.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    Here's the thing: It's not acceptable by law for the victim, or anyone else to kill the rapist. Why is it acceptable to then kill the baby? If it's human being with rights as per pro life arguments, then you need to do better job at explaining than that. I'm not saying that wasn't decent explanation, simply, that it's not good enough.
    Actually, depending on the case, if the victim killed the assailant (rapist), then she could probably be found not guilty by way of "self defense." Just saying.

    _____

    I've got a great solution. Develop an artificial womb, that will take these fetuses, and develop them until birth. That way the mother doesn't have to have it growing inside her, and the State of Alabama can pay for the child to be raised til full term in the artificial womb.
    Last edited by Shaderas; 2019-05-10 at 11:29 PM. Reason: Added some thoughts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Senator Moore will be sitting in that seat and I hope it burns you to your core.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Trump did it so it's good. I put my faith in a strong political figure because I lack self-esteem and feel threatened by a changing world. Whoever stands against him is bad because I do not understand their arguments and I have a simple tribalistic mindset created through the consumption of right-wing media.

  4. #84
    Alabama and Georgia are racing each other to see who gets back to 1850 the fastest.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderas View Post
    Actually, depending on the case, if the victim killed the assailant (rapist), then she could probably be found not guilty by way of "self defense." Just saying.
    Right, allow me to clarify: not during the rape, but much afterwards is what I ment by it. Let's say 4 months after to use a random number.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Alabama and Georgia are racing each other to see who gets back to 1850 the fastest.
    People watch the Handmaid's Tale as entertainment, thinking something like that could never happen here. Those people need to take a few classes in history.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    Right, allow me to clarify: not during the rape, but much afterwards is what I ment by it. Let's say 4 months after to use a random number.
    Why use a random number instead of coming up with one you have put some thought into?

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Why use a random number instead of coming up with one you have put some thought into?
    What are you talking about? Do I need to spend certain amount of mental focus on a number, or what? Who cares what the number is, it's not even relevant to the point. If you go revenge kill a rapist, it's going to be classed as murder whether it's week after, 4 months, 2 years 1 month 58 seconds or 50 years. Didn't imagine it needed explaining but hey, live and learn.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    What are you talking about? Do I need to spend certain amount of mental focus on a number, or what? Who cares what the number is, it's not even relevant to the point. If you go revenge kill a rapist, it's going to be classed as murder whether it's week after, 4 months, 2 years 1 month 58 seconds or 50 years. Didn't imagine it needed explaining but hey, live and learn.
    What if it's after less than 5 minutes? It's not always going to be classed as murder, and shouldn't always be classed as such due to mitigating mental factors.
    Last edited by Vegas82; 2019-05-11 at 12:09 AM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    What if it's after less than 5 minutes?
    ...

    Would it clear up the confusion had I used the word murder instead of kill? I only didn't use it, because this is a thread where many people are obviously clueless on what the legal definition of murder is, because they throw it around based on their agenda. That's the only reason I didn't use it on that particular sentence.

    The legal definition of murder answers those kind of questions.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    ...

    Would it clear up the confusion had I used the word murder instead of kill? I only didn't use it, because this is a thread where many people are obviously clueless on what the legal definition of murder is, because they throw it around based on their agenda. That's the only reason I didn't use it on that particular sentence.

    The legal definition of murder answers those kind of questions.
    Right, and you're 100% incorrect when you assert it's ALWAYS murder when it happens.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Right, and you're 100% incorrect when you assert it's ALWAYS murder when it happens.
    Didn't I just address this? In the last post no less. Was it in wrong language or something? I mean, do tell me if you're after some point or if you want to argue for the sake or arguing. Either is fine, but if it's the latter then I'd like to save the effort of trying to figure what the former might be.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    Didn't I just address this? In the last post no less. Was it in wrong language or something? I mean, do tell me if you're after some point or if you want to argue for the sake or arguing. Either is fine, but if it's the latter then I'd like to save the effort of trying to figure what the former might be.
    Yes, your language indicated that killing a victim killing their rapist is always murder, regardless of timeline. That's not accurate in any way shape or form. Hell, it could be 6 months later and still not be murder.

    Oh, and you did use murder originally. So I'm not sure where your last post in any way addresses this.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    Oh, please do explain. Is the baby less human? What did the baby in that case do to be less than human and deserve murdering?
    outside the whole a fertilized egg isn't a baby fact.

    Thought experiment; I need a kidney you have two, you HAVE TO be my kidney donor. Is this exceptionable?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, your language indicated that killing a victim killing their rapist is always murder, regardless of timeline. That's not accurate in any way shape or form. Hell, it could be 6 months later and still not be murder.

    Oh, and you did use murder originally. So I'm not sure where your last post in any way addresses this.
    ....

    It's completely beside the point anyway. It was a comparison. You're allowed to kill someone in self defense, just as you're allowed abortion if your life is in danger. Great, sounds like law has it covered. You're stuck on that part still, but you see, the post already moved past this, and went straight to comparing the situations outside of those cases. For one the legality seems to be in dispute, and for the other it isn't. I'll let you guess which is which.

    In any case, I need to get some sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    outside the whole a fertilized egg isn't a baby fact.

    Thought experiment; I need a kidney you have two, you HAVE TO be my kidney donor. Is this exceptionable?
    I'd ask how much money can you offer.
    Last edited by Azadina; 2019-05-11 at 01:00 AM.

  16. #96
    The Patient J012D4N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    This is just one of the many reasons why Alabama is a shithole state. Instead of trying to improve their state and make people actually want to live there, they do shit like this.
    I mean ... 70% of their elected legislature voted in favor of this shit.
    That said, those elected officials had the "green light" from their constituents.
    Alabama, although a "shithole" INDEED is apparently very livable for Alabamans (or Alabamians. Maybe Alabamites???)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    outside the whole a fertilized egg isn't a baby fact.
    Correct, it's not a "baby". Emrbyo/fetus are just the developing stages of a "human" (i.e. referencing it's humanity as an existing fact).
    Literal definition. https://www.merriam-webster.com/
    Think those fly on this forum?

    The Law proposed (at 6 weeks) is retarded. A women could simply mistake that for a late cycle (has happened to my significant other when she's stressed). Need to be mindful of a women's right of choice, BUT we also don't need to be a society whom tolerates the legal potential for a fetal human to be terminated while the mother is crowning.
    Last edited by J012D4N; 2019-05-11 at 01:21 AM.

  17. #97
    This whole debate is stupid. Since the right is trying to assign rights to an unborn fetus as a person then how do we deal with the slavery aspect? You can't force the mother to be a slave for 9 months to the little parasite. Something else to go to court over.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    ....

    It's completely beside the point anyway. It was a comparison. You're allowed to kill someone in self defense, just as you're allowed abortion if your life is in danger. Great, sounds like law has it covered. You're stuck on that part still, but you see, the post already moved past this, and went straight to comparing the situations outside of those cases. For one the legality seems to be in dispute, and for the other it isn't. I'll let you guess which is which.

    In any case, I need to get some sleep.



    I'd ask how much money can you offer.
    no money just donate that kidney to me.

    the point is the whole concept of body autonomy

  19. #99
    The Lightbringer Zaydin's Avatar
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    The hypocrisy of 'small government' anti-American conservatives wanting to insert government into one of the most difficult decisions a woman could likely make in her life. Hell, apparently the 'small government' GOP in Ohio wants to make it illegal for PRIVATE insurance to cover abortions AND restrict birth control coverage. I thought conservatives hated government regulation of private businesses.

    At this point, any woman who still votes for the anti-American right is more than likely self-loathing. The modern day Republican party is an enemy of America that needs to be defeated at every possible turn.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers


  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    Is it me picking nonsensical stances apart that is absurd, or is it the nonsensical stances themselves that are in fact absurd, for me to pick them apart on their contradictions so easily? If one believes abortion is murdering babies, then no sort of bad excuse is going to change that. If they start making excuses on why it's ok in some cases, then it directly contradicts the entire core point. And after that, their entire argument is worth nothing at all, because they already crossed their own sacred argument that they've used to justify their actions in the first place.

    And yeah, there are pacifists who wouldn't resort to violence or killing even in self defense, so that example of yours doesn't hold up. In fact it makes my point for me: you can't call yourself pacifist anymore, if you're fully willing to break that whenever it's not convenient.
    You didn't pick anything apart, that is the problem. You didn't argue what I was saying, you were assuming beliefs to try to defeat a pre programmed argument. I can't contradict my argument when I didn't even argue what you are saying.

    Again, I'm not arguing whether the baby is alive and has specific human rights yet. You need to stop acting like I am contradicting myself on that basis because that is not what I was saying. My core reason for thinking abortion should be legal is exactly in line with that...the pro abortion people can't prove it isn't alive and the anti abortion people can't prove it is so it is useless to try to argue about that and the government can't have the stance that it is alive when that is still heavily debated.

    The argument I have been explaining to you is that some women seem to think they don't have a responsibility to their own child if it isn't born yet. I think that is disturbing. If you think abortion is for the best for your family and child then that is a good reason for abortion to be allowed and that is what abortion activists have to argue. Instead they say insane things and act like they shouldn't have to care about their own child and try to justify it by saying it's not really alive yet.

    I don't care when anyone thinks it is alive, it is GOING to be alive. It's such a stupid thing to argue over for both sides. That's your child whether it is technically alive yet or not. You should treat the situation with more gravity and understand your responsibility in the situation rather than think only of yourself. I think you do have a right to still think of yourself and not just be forced to carry another living thing inside you but it isn't just your body. It should mean more to you that you are ending its chance to live and have a good reason for it that respects the wellbeing of others that rely on you and not just be like, "lololol abortions are fun yay," like some girls act like now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    The hypocrisy of 'small government' anti-American conservatives wanting to insert government into one of the most difficult decisions a woman could likely make in her life. Hell, apparently the 'small government' GOP in Ohio wants to make it illegal for PRIVATE insurance to cover abortions AND restrict birth control coverage. I thought conservatives hated government regulation of private businesses.

    At this point, any woman who still votes for the anti-American right is more than likely self-loathing. The modern day Republican party is an enemy of America that needs to be defeated at every possible turn.
    Wanting small government isn't a right leaning viewpoint. People who want smaller government just tend to vote republican because the democrats want more and more government (which is similarly not a left leaning viewpoint). And believing in small government doesn't mean you think everything should be legal. Small government doesn't mean anarchy...

    The viewpoint of wanting to protect life with laws is entirely consistent with a small government viewpoint and a right leaning viewpoint. You don't have to agree that an unborn baby is alive and has human rights but that is what they believe. With that understanding it makes perfect sense that they would view it as murder and want the government to stop it just like it is also consistent if someone believes it isn't murder on the basis that they don't think it is alive yet.

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