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  1. #101
    Herald of the Titans Zaydin's Avatar
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    The hypocrisy of 'small government' anti-American conservatives wanting to insert government into one of the most difficult decisions a woman could likely make in her life. Hell, apparently the 'small government' GOP in Ohio wants to make it illegal for PRIVATE insurance to cover abortions AND restrict birth control coverage. I thought conservatives hated government regulation of private businesses.

    At this point, any woman who still votes for the anti-American right is more than likely self-loathing. The modern day Republican party is an enemy of America that needs to be defeated at every possible turn.
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    Is it me picking nonsensical stances apart that is absurd, or is it the nonsensical stances themselves that are in fact absurd, for me to pick them apart on their contradictions so easily? If one believes abortion is murdering babies, then no sort of bad excuse is going to change that. If they start making excuses on why it's ok in some cases, then it directly contradicts the entire core point. And after that, their entire argument is worth nothing at all, because they already crossed their own sacred argument that they've used to justify their actions in the first place.

    And yeah, there are pacifists who wouldn't resort to violence or killing even in self defense, so that example of yours doesn't hold up. In fact it makes my point for me: you can't call yourself pacifist anymore, if you're fully willing to break that whenever it's not convenient.
    You didn't pick anything apart, that is the problem. You didn't argue what I was saying, you were assuming beliefs to try to defeat a pre programmed argument. I can't contradict my argument when I didn't even argue what you are saying.

    Again, I'm not arguing whether the baby is alive and has specific human rights yet. You need to stop acting like I am contradicting myself on that basis because that is not what I was saying. My core reason for thinking abortion should be legal is exactly in line with that...the pro abortion people can't prove it isn't alive and the anti abortion people can't prove it is so it is useless to try to argue about that and the government can't have the stance that it is alive when that is still heavily debated.

    The argument I have been explaining to you is that some women seem to think they don't have a responsibility to their own child if it isn't born yet. I think that is disturbing. If you think abortion is for the best for your family and child then that is a good reason for abortion to be allowed and that is what abortion activists have to argue. Instead they say insane things and act like they shouldn't have to care about their own child and try to justify it by saying it's not really alive yet.

    I don't care when anyone thinks it is alive, it is GOING to be alive. It's such a stupid thing to argue over for both sides. That's your child whether it is technically alive yet or not. You should treat the situation with more gravity and understand your responsibility in the situation rather than think only of yourself. I think you do have a right to still think of yourself and not just be forced to carry another living thing inside you but it isn't just your body. It should mean more to you that you are ending its chance to live and have a good reason for it that respects the wellbeing of others that rely on you and not just be like, "lololol abortions are fun yay," like some girls act like now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    The hypocrisy of 'small government' anti-American conservatives wanting to insert government into one of the most difficult decisions a woman could likely make in her life. Hell, apparently the 'small government' GOP in Ohio wants to make it illegal for PRIVATE insurance to cover abortions AND restrict birth control coverage. I thought conservatives hated government regulation of private businesses.

    At this point, any woman who still votes for the anti-American right is more than likely self-loathing. The modern day Republican party is an enemy of America that needs to be defeated at every possible turn.
    Wanting small government isn't a right leaning viewpoint. People who want smaller government just tend to vote republican because the democrats want more and more government (which is similarly not a left leaning viewpoint). And believing in small government doesn't mean you think everything should be legal. Small government doesn't mean anarchy...

    The viewpoint of wanting to protect life with laws is entirely consistent with a small government viewpoint and a right leaning viewpoint. You don't have to agree that an unborn baby is alive and has human rights but that is what they believe. With that understanding it makes perfect sense that they would view it as murder and want the government to stop it just like it is also consistent if someone believes it isn't murder on the basis that they don't think it is alive yet.

  3. #103
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    You'd think, but that's only if you actually think the well-being of fellow humans is being taken into consideration at any point.

    I'd really rather we have elected representatives who do consider the well-being of fellow humans when making decisions, but they're elected, so this reflects really poorly on Alabama's voters.



    That's the thing that gets me every time this is brought up: it doesn't even say that! Their religion is pro-abortion! Specifically in cases of infidelity, using a magic dirt potion. It's around Numbers 5. I never hear it brought up by pro-life religious conservatives; it's weird.

    On reflection though, that verse isn't pro-choice either. So if you really want to be consistent with that book, be pro-death and anti-choice!
    Numbers 5 16 to 24 ish

    Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

    But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

    May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
    So basically, abortion due to infidelity or rape is completely okay and in fact encouraged, other stuff (of course) is left completely ambiguous, and as usual the typical figures in the bible say absolutely nothing that would make it clear what the fuck they think is correct. It's just pick and choose for these lunatics.
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  4. #104
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if this applies to women who miscarry? Will they be forced to carry the miscarried fetus to term, or can they undergo the procedure to remove the fetus?
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    no money just donate that kidney to me.

    the point is the whole concept of body autonomy
    The money part is not a choice if you wish to force me to donate. You may choose what you pay it for however. Choices would be as follows:

    1. For the kidney donation.

    Now, if you would very much like to skip this part, imagining it comes free because you try to force me, then we move to the next

    2. The same amount to stop your assassination.

    If you say no to this as well, then there won't be a donation, as no doctor does it for a corpse Either way, the donation would not go forward without pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    You didn't pick anything apart, that is the problem. You didn't argue what I was saying, you were assuming beliefs to try to defeat a pre programmed argument. I can't contradict my argument when I didn't even argue what you are saying.

    Again, I'm not arguing whether the baby is alive and has specific human rights yet. You need to stop acting like I am contradicting myself on that basis because that is not what I was saying. My core reason for thinking abortion should be legal is exactly in line with that...the pro abortion people can't prove it isn't alive and the anti abortion people can't prove it is so it is useless to try to argue about that and the government can't have the stance that it is alive when that is still heavily debated.

    The argument I have been explaining to you is that some women seem to think they don't have a responsibility to their own child if it isn't born yet. I think that is disturbing. If you think abortion is for the best for your family and child then that is a good reason for abortion to be allowed and that is what abortion activists have to argue. Instead they say insane things and act like they shouldn't have to care about their own child and try to justify it by saying it's not really alive yet.

    I don't care when anyone thinks it is alive, it is GOING to be alive. It's such a stupid thing to argue over for both sides. That's your child whether it is technically alive yet or not. You should treat the situation with more gravity and understand your responsibility in the situation rather than think only of yourself. I think you do have a right to still think of yourself and not just be forced to carry another living thing inside you but it isn't just your body. It should mean more to you that you are ending its chance to live and have a good reason for it that respects the wellbeing of others that rely on you and not just be like, "lololol abortions are fun yay," like some girls act like now.
    I read your whole post, but the bolded part is where it became not even worth addressing. That's just patently ridiculous, and one of the usual extremist pro-life talking points. Why complain to me if I address you as if you're pro-lifer, if you even use some of their extremist talking points without a shred of irony in mind.

  6. #106
    It would be nice if we had a thread with a scientific DB about abortion, conception and pregnancy. Because there is some crazy shit without any basis or proof going on here and any other abortion thread.

    Like "having sex has a high chance to result in healthy baby" - umm no. Or "Fertilized egg will turn to helathy baby in 99% of all cases" - again, big NO. Or "Women think abortions are fun" - NO NO NO. Or "bitches just want to terminate at 8th month if they don't want a baby" - Nope, pls educate yourself on late-term abortions.

    But why should 'muricans care for science and statistics...

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Does anyone know if this applies to women who miscarry? Will they be forced to carry the miscarried fetus to term, or can they undergo the procedure to remove the fetus?
    That isn't how miscarriages work...

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    That isn't how miscarriages work...
    some miscarriages work that way. In fact, one irish woman died because she was forced to carry her dying and then dead child beacuse no doctor wanted to be the one to perform the forbidden "abortion" (would have been one if the child still "lived" despite being totally not viable)

    Edit: Which is one of the reasons why I'd never wish to get pregnant in a country where abortion is completely outlawed. I don't want to die bc of this shit.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post


    I read your whole post, but the bolded part is where it became not even worth addressing. That's just patently ridiculous, and one of the usual extremist pro-life talking points. Why complain to me if I address you as if you're pro-lifer, if you even use some of their extremist talking points without a shred of irony in mind.
    Really? One line invalidates every other point I made even though it wasn't even meant as an argument? Have some self awareness and realize that what you are actually doing is trying find an excuse to dismiss inconvenient information. Recognize that flaw and you will be able to form more complete and reasoned opinions, not just about this topic. Otherwise you are just acting out the defense of your belief system without allowing it to have its merit challenged and proven.

    That's not even a talking point and people are definitely like that. I was not saying you think like that but those people definitely exist, setting aside the obvious hyperbole. I also was not arguing against abortion being legal and was specifically condemning the people who think and act like that so it makes no sense for you to be upset about it. Maybe you have not personally seen or interacted with these people but I have. I know people who have held abortion parties for themselves because they're crazy and there is this social movement about thinking abortion is a wonderful thing and doing a service to society.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Lylandra View Post
    some miscarriages work that way. In fact, one irish woman died because she was forced to carry her dying and then dead child beacuse no doctor wanted to be the one to perform the forbidden "abortion" (would have been one if the child still "lived" despite being totally not viable)
    What you are describing is extremely rare and I can't imagine that absurdly unlikely exceptions will be allowed. I don't see a point in trying to dismiss something by pointing out extremes.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    What you are describing is extremely rare and I can't imagine that absurdly unlikely exceptions will be allowed. I don't see a point in trying to dismiss something by pointing out extremes.
    do you have numbers?

    As long as cases like this exist, there *have* to be exceptions written into these laws. There are some more "regular", possibly lethal complications like ectopian pregnancies where an abortion of a child which *is* going to die but isn't dead yet has to be performed to keep the mother safe.

    And I have read about cases in countries where all abortions are forbidden that there are legal investigations after normal miscarriages whether or not a woman had an abortion. Which is horrifying.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Lylandra View Post
    do you have numbers?

    As long as cases like this exist, there *have* to be exceptions written into these laws. There are some more "regular", possibly lethal complications like ectopian pregnancies where an abortion of a child which *is* going to die but isn't dead yet has to be performed to keep the mother safe.

    And I have read about cases in countries where all abortions are forbidden that there are legal investigations after normal miscarriages whether or not a woman had an abortion. Which is horrifying.
    Do you have numbers?

    I grow weary of people who want a thesis to dismiss a stupid point. Either defend your position or don't... and no searching the world for the most restrictive countries isn't a strong position.

  13. #113
    I did not say anything about rape victims. It is pretty obvious from my comment that I was talking about consensual sex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Getting an abortion is "taking responsibility." Fucking obviously.

    Unless you think bringing an entire person into the world for the sole purpose of teaching those worthless sluts a lesson for not keeping their legs closed is a reasonable stance to hold...
    Well I guess any parent that is not capable of caring for their child is ok to just smother them with a pillow. It is the responsible thing to do.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooti View Post
    Well I guess any parent that is not capable of caring for their child is ok to just smother them with a pillow. It is the responsible thing to do.
    Yep, because getting rid of an undefined blob of parasitic cells is totally the same as suddenly deciding to suffocate your 3 year old because they threw a tantrum that night when told to go to bed.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Yep, because getting rid of an undefined blob of parasitic cells is totally the same as suddenly deciding to suffocate your 3 year old because they threw a tantrum that night when told to go to bed.
    I do not see how being unable to care for your child is the same as your child throwing a tantrum. If you do not want to take care of a baby, do not engage in sex. OR get an operation to render yourself sterile. Problem solved. Making choices based on immediate pleasure forsaking the future consequences rarely work out well.
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooti View Post
    I do not see how being unable to care for your child is the same as your child throwing a tantrum. If you do not want to take care of a baby, do not engage in sex. OR get an operation to render yourself sterile. Problem solved. Making choices based on immediate pleasure forsaking the future consequences rarely work out well.
    Ah, you're one of those people that think sex only ever happens 100% of the time for nothing but pure pleasure. Neat. Maybe look a bit further than the end of your nose.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooti View Post
    I do not see how being unable to care for your child is the same as your child throwing a tantrum. If you do not want to take care of a baby, do not engage in sex. OR get an operation to render yourself sterile. Problem solved. Making choices based on immediate pleasure forsaking the future consequences rarely work out well.
    So those who are raped...?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooti View Post
    I do not see how being unable to care for your child is the same as your child throwing a tantrum. If you do not want to take care of a baby, do not engage in sex. OR get an operation to render yourself sterile. Problem solved. Making choices based on immediate pleasure forsaking the future consequences rarely work out well.
    Tell that to the 11 year old rape victims in Ohio.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  19. #119
    Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.


    Can you paste it so people in EU can read it?

  20. #120
    An 11-year-old rape victim in northwestern Ohio is pregnant, according to news reports, and a highly restrictive state law on abortion signed last month says a girl in her position must carry and deliver her rapist’s baby.

    A barely pubescent girl has been impregnated, allegedly, by a 26-year-old man who had sex with her on multiple occasions, and the pure anti-abortion position is that the law should prevent her from terminating her pregnancy unless it’s to save her life or spare her grave bodily harm.

    Ohio’s Human Rights Protection Act, signed April 11 by Republican Gov. Mike DeWine, is one of those “heartbeat” laws that ban abortion as soon as doctors can detect fetal cardiac activity, which starts at about six weeks of gestation, even before some women know they’re pregnant.
    From the article.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

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