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  1. #1

    Suramar was sealed to keep Azshara from the Pillars of Creation?

    New dialogue from Thalyssra , Shandris and Azshara in 8.2 reveals this, but didnt Chronicles say it was shielded to save the city from demons and sundering instead of her order joining the High Priestess and the others because Elisande didn't believe the resistance could succeed?

    There can be several reasons to do a thing, but the main reason is the most important, we know Tyrande wanted Elisande's group to join the push to Zin'Azshari after they had sealed the second portal and presumably created the nightwell. We know the Queen at this point had cut off the empire and capital from accessing the Well of Eternity (read WotA trilogy), naturally the nightwell would have been a powerful tool.

    The conversation has Shandris accuse the highborne of Suramar (whom Tha,yara represents) from abandoning the rest of them and Kalimdor to burn to wall up, but she later agrees that the shield was to keep Azshara from the Pillars of Creation - when she says I know..


    This new information means or implies their was much going on

    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2019-05-10 at 02:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I think this is a touch of revisionist history on the part of Thalyssra - although it probably *was* a concern the leadership of Suramar had when the Shield idea was broached. Thalyssra is likely taking what was originally an ancillary concern and swapping out for the self-serving and primary concern that Elisande revealed in the Legion storyline. Perhaps that was indeed Thalyssra's primary concern as opposed to Elisande's when the idea for the Shield was being planned.
    "The finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of Faro. George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked. And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said, 'I know. But it's the only game in town.' And he went back to the game." -- Neil Gaiman, "American Gods"

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Well considering Suramar's intro cinematic kinda contradicts this, the Nightborne only had one of the Pillars and that Azshara had presumably already had the Tidestone destroyed and Nar'Thalas flooded by the time Suramar bubbled, I'm going to suggest they're already retconing stuff from Legion.
    There's this horrible realisation that BfA could all just be a fever dream caused by Argus cleaving us.
    Inb4 the twist is that Sylvanas has been a Dreadlord/Dead the whole of BfA and we've been doing someone else's dirty work.
    Daily reminder that Steam has never had a monopoly on PC Gaming, don't mistake age and popularity for domination.

  4. #4
    So basically they were not fine giving Azshara the the pillars of creation, but giving the Legion the on they still had was fine I guess.

  5. #5
    Not necessarily. It surely leaves a gap of "wtf happened?" though. Chronicle says the Pillars were stored in a vault in Suramar. The Highborne then used them to stop the Legion from using the Temple of Elune (Temple of Sargeras) as a new portal into Azeroth. Afterwards they decided not to join the rebellion an used the Eye of Aman'Thul to create the Nightwell. Basically at some point between the closing of the Temple's portal and the creation of the dome: Azshara destroyed (no idea why instead of stealing it) the Tidestone of Golganneth that was in Aszuna; Deathwing stole the Hammer of Khaz'goroth and after the War of the Ancients Huln Highmountain used it to banish the dragon; the Tears where hidden for who knows what reason in the Val'sharah Temple of Elune; and the Aegis of Agrammar somehow ended up in Odyn's possession. A true mystery indeed.

  6. #6
    Maybe the plan (of at least some of them) was to actually keep all of the pillars safe, but they couldn't and even the ones who wanted to fight instead of hide did get Elisande's reasoning for keeping at least the Eye of Aman'thul safe with the shield, so they went with her plan.

  7. #7
    It is just elves lying to make themselves look good. Normal day that ends with y for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Someone I don't like
    Something I perceive as stupid or overly emotional.
    A quote that justifies my ideology, or attributes my opposition's position to ignorance or selfishness. - Some Nobody

  8. #8
    As Aucald said, this is blizzard rewriting history for whatever plot they are currently on. Just like "Sylvanas actually knew about the Wrathgate btw" like what, over 10 years later just because they are currently making Sylvanas a villain to be put down in Siege of Orgrimmar 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Close, but no cigar. The lesson is "Green Jesus knows the way, infidel."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    As Aucald said, this is blizzard rewriting history for whatever plot they are currently on. Just like "Sylvanas actually knew about the Wrathgate btw" like what, over 10 years later just because they are currently making Sylvanas a villain to be put down in Siege of Orgrimmar 2.
    Lore exists to aid the gameplay not tie the hands of the developers. Ofc this ends up making any new lore meaningless cos it’s only correct for
    The moment, and will be changed later.

    No point getting excited about it, loving it or hating it. It means nothing. Waste of our time really. They can’t even tell
    A coherently consistent story in their actual game.

    You may have been drawn to Warcraft lore because it was attractive
    And promising, but it isn’t worthy of your love,

  10. #10
    Keyboard Turner Hissarray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Lore exists to aid the gameplay not tie the hands of the developers. Ofc this ends up making any new lore meaningless cos it’s only correct for
    The moment, and will be changed later.

    No point getting excited about it, loving it or hating it. It means nothing. Waste of our time really. They can’t even tell
    A coherently consistent story in their actual game.

    You may have been drawn to Warcraft lore because it was attractive
    And promising, but it isn’t worthy of your love,
    This could not be more accurate to the current writing situation of this fucking universe.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I think this is a touch of revisionist history on the part of Thalyssra - although it probably *was* a concern the leadership of Suramar had when the Shield idea was broached. Thalyssra is likely taking what was originally an ancillary concern and swapping out for the self-serving and primary concern that Elisande revealed in the Legion storyline. Perhaps that was indeed Thalyssra's primary concern as opposed to Elisande's when the idea for the Shield was being planned.
    It is kinda like when you decide to make a nice dinner and you get lucky and it just happens to be an anniversary.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  12. #12
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Whining aside, this seems to adds more to when the shield went up. Elisande deciding to lower the shield later was a different situation then demons coming out of the big portal of doom(Well of Eternity).
    #TeamLegion

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  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire George Lucas's Avatar
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    Experience what really happened during the war of the ancients, it will seriously be the real real history of Azeroth™ this time! Buy the all new revised Chronicles™ Volume™ 24™ in the fith and final edition! Out now.

  14. #14
    I have nothing to add other than I miss Suramar, an epic zone with it's own civilization, a vast storyline intricately interwoven with the overarching narrative of the Legion.

  15. #15
    What do you know, blizzard is already to make up new stories not following what was said previously and is just coming up with new stuff out of thin air because fuck logic and lore!

    It's just funny now, how many time they do it...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    So basically they were not fine giving Azshara the the pillars of creation, but giving the Legion the on they still had was fine I guess.
    It's almost like it was 10000 years later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurmech View Post
    It is just elves lying to make themselves look good. Normal day that ends with y for them.
    That's giving Blizzard a lot of credit. I find this being a retcon a lot more likely than Thalyssra lying to save face.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    I have nothing to add other than I miss Suramar, an epic zone with it's own civilization, a vast storyline intricately interwoven with the overarching narrative of the Legion.
    And was invalid or retconned not even half way through the next expansion.

  18. #18
    Just get rid of these story writers and replace them with some creative and fresh minds. Mother of God, stop this retconning madness.

  19. #19
    Is it just me or is Azshara's voice different to that in her Warbringers cinematic?

  20. #20
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    As Aucald said, this is blizzard rewriting history for whatever plot they are currently on. Just like "Sylvanas actually knew about the Wrathgate btw" like what, over 10 years later just because they are currently making Sylvanas a villain to be put down in Siege of Orgrimmar 2.
    I don't think this is a retcon by Blizzard or anything like that - I am saying that this is Thalyssra being a bit political, subtly rephrasing or re-crouching the reasoning behind Suramar's actions in the War of the Ancients for better optics (specifically for Shandris and the Kaldorei). It has the added bonus of being potentially true, while still obfuscating the obvious protectionism and self-centered rationale of Elisande and the leadership of Suramar at the time.
    "The finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of Faro. George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked. And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said, 'I know. But it's the only game in town.' And he went back to the game." -- Neil Gaiman, "American Gods"

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