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  1. #1

    Belfs turned into traitors and scumbags

    The implication of the belfs in the new story is terrible. Lor'themar is turned into a scumbag idiot who will stand by and allow the Sunreavers to get butchered upholding the laws of the Horde and of the Warchief back to back with the same person who ... butchered Sunreavers not so long ago.

    The Belfs were ready to join the Alliance in MoP and I totally get that since the other option was to be killed off one by one just cause Garrosh didn't like them, so I can't blame Lor'themar for seeking other options. But then the purge of Dalaran happens which enrages the belfs. So they would rather go back to being killed off one by one instead of being killed all at once.

    Now we get this abomination of a story that makes no goddamn sense. First of all, why the hell would he be the one turning against Sylvanas who, for better or worse only helped him and his people out when they were in need, that is to say, during the same time the Alliance was sabotaging the belf efforts to reclaim their lands. She supports them in retaking their home and vouches for them to join the Horde.

    There's also that bit with the blackmail (which wasn't really blackmail) and that turned out well for them. So I see absolutely no reason they would hold it against Sylvanas. So for better or worse, Sylvanas helped them more than anyone around them. The Forsaken did for them what they did for the Nightborne.

    But ok, being a scumbag is sometimes a thing. However making deals with Jaina Proudmoore of all people? Come on! They could have, at least used a different character and even then it wouldn't have made much sense but it does not shamelessly take a proverbial shit on the previously established story. It would have made more sense if Varian was the one alive pushing the truce and Jaina would be dead.

    What the hell is this?

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire TigTone's Avatar
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    Nathanos said the escape was allowed by Slyvanas, if you want to get mad at the plan of sunreavers being used as fodder. Then blame Sylvanas for not giving them the back up force needed.

    In other words she used them for her own needs and not the hordes needs like always.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewshine View Post
    Nathanos said the escape was allowed by Slyvanas, if you want to get mad at the plan of sunreavers being used as fodder. Then blame Sylvanas for not giving them the back up force needed.

    In other words she used them for her own needs and not the hordes needs like always.
    Which I can't imagine why someone would seek other allies at that point, especially considering the Alliance treats even the void elves better than that.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewshine View Post
    Nathanos said the escape was allowed by Slyvanas, if you want to get mad at the plan of sunreavers being used as fodder. Then blame Sylvanas for not giving them the back up force needed.

    In other words she used them for her own needs and not the hordes needs like always.
    Your blame-it-all-on-Sylvanas post has been noted.

    Now can we talk about why the hell is Lor'themar is gonna work with Proudmoore?

  5. #5
    Lor'themar betraying sylvanas is absolutely within character, the problem is his motivation which is entirely out of character, Baine is the heart of the horde hur dur is not something Lor'themar usually bases his decisions on and it shows.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewshine View Post
    Nathanos said the escape was allowed by Slyvanas, if you want to get mad at the plan of sunreavers being used as fodder. Then blame Sylvanas for not giving them the back up force needed.

    In other words she used them for her own needs and not the hordes needs like always.
    More Dark Rangers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    Your blame-it-all-on-Sylvanas post has been noted.

    Now can we talk about why the hell is Lor'themar is gonna work with Proudmoore?
    He probably picked to side with the enemy from yesterday over the enemy of tomorrow. He knows exactly that, as it stands now, the Horde is looking at a civil war, and he decides to side with the side that he feels more comfortable with, eg not the one with the genocidal maniac.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    Your blame-it-all-on-Sylvanas post has been noted.

    Now can we talk about why the hell is Lor'themar is gonna work with Proudmoore?
    Lor'themar goes there to free Baine. Jaina is there to free Baine too. What is he supposed to do? Start a fight he cant possibly win against someone who is, at least at that moment, working towards the same goal as him?
    There's a very fine line between not listening, and not caring. I like to think that I walk that line every day of my life. ~ Private Leonard Church


  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Which I can't imagine why someone would seek other allies at that point, especially considering the Alliance treats even the void elves better than that.
    After the daz'alor battle and the raid on vulperas caravans, maybe animal people or "not human enough" will be wary of the alliance, after all they imprisioned Talanji and Zul and keep a guy named trollbane as part of their group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  9. #9
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byne View Post
    Lor'themar goes there to free Baine. Jaina is there to free Baine too. What is he supposed to do? Start a fight he cant possibly win against someone who is, at least at that moment, working towards the same goal as him?
    Don't bother trying to express a very easy to understand and logical conclusion with these guys, at this stage these kinds of fans will use the most embarrassing mental gymnastics so their sylvanas fan bubble can't be popped.

    I've seen it before, it always goes this way, same happened with garrosh.

  10. #10
    Afrasiabi, Danuser and Golden are pure cancer for this story. Noone is safe from this garbage they're spewing. Better hope that your favorite character stays well hidden in the shadows of obscurity lest they become complete and utter morons and act against any form of established characteristics.

    I can't find myself to care anymore. I'm forced to help characters I absolutely despise and kill the ones that despise that character for the same reason. But hey, you do have a choice, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    when i learned anythin from mmo-c then it is that shit is only bad when the horde does it
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Byne View Post
    Lor'themar goes there to free Baine. Jaina is there to free Baine too. What is he supposed to do? Start a fight he cant possibly win against someone who is, at least at that moment, working towards the same goal as him?
    Is there a reason why he wants to free Baine? We are talking about Baine, a traitor siding with the alliance while a giant war against the alliance is happening.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    After the daz'alor battle and the raid on vulperas caravans, maybe animal people or "not human enough" will be wary of the alliance, after all they imprisioned Talanji and Zul and keep a guy named trollbane as part of their group.
    What's so wrong about having prisoners from a nation that has repeatedly started hostilities with both factions until BfA? Even if you want to debate whether or not that was Zul or Rastakhan... Well, it was Zul who was imprisoned.

    And Trollbane is just that, a name. Even the horde gets quests to kill some trolls in Arathi.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Don't bother trying to express a very easy to understand and logical conclusion with these guys, at this stage these kinds of fans will use the most embarrassing mental gymnastics so their sylvanas fan bubble can't be popped.

    I've seen it before, it always goes this way, same happened with garrosh.
    No I totally get how you can feel so threatened by any post that does not coincide with your own personal opinion that you would need to berate and cast doubt on my credibility.

    And Byne, I wasn't talking about him saving Baine, which makes no sense either if I were to compare Sylvanas' contribution to the Belfs and the Horde with Baine's.

    What I was pointing towards is why would Lor'themar side with someone who has time and again proven hostile against his faction and his race specifically over someone who has helped them in the past more often than not.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    Is there a reason why he wants to free Baine? We are talking about Baine, a traitor siding with the alliance while a giant war against the alliance is happening.
    They could have easily written it in a way that makes it far more in character, Sylvanas raising her troops and generally throwing them at the enemy without much care is what should get him to bust out Baine, since he has necessary connections, but making him care for Baine as the core of the horde does not fit his character at all.

  15. #15
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Traitors? Technically, yes, at least to Sylvanas regime and her loyalists. Scumbags? I don't think so, no. Lor'themar has decided to oppose Sylvanas and Baine is simply the lightning rod that is igniting a schism that's been present for some time. Lor'themar doesn't agree with Sylvanas' war and no longer wishes to fight it - a position he now shares with several other leaders and high-placed individuals in the Horde. You can agree or disagree with that, but I don't think it makes him or the Blood Elves as a whole "scumbags."
    "The finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of Faro. George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked. And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said, 'I know. But it's the only game in town.' And he went back to the game." -- Neil Gaiman, "American Gods"

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    What's so wrong about having prisoners from a nation that has repeatedly started hostilities with both factions until BfA? Even if you want to debate whether or not that was Zul or Rastakhan... Well, it was Zul who was imprisoned.

    And Trollbane is just that, a name. Even the horde gets quests to kill some trolls in Arathi.
    Well maybe inviting the Princess to some talk or keeping her into a nice place instead of a prision could had been a better move, now that and killing Rastakhan who is not at fault with the actions of Zul has only made the zandalaris enemies for the alliance and probably the Sethrak, Vulperas and some Tortollans won't be viewing the alliance with a nice image.

    About Trollbane, the dude comes from a bloodline that has killed many troll tribes both civilians and soldiers and he still a racist if you do the warfront against him, also his coin in dalaran is a great proof of his racist behavior: https://www.wowhead.com/item=43705/danaths-copper-coin

    The dude is pretty much the Zul of the alliance but he hasn't tried yet some coup to take the throne.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Traitors? Technically, yes, at least to Sylvanas regime and her loyalists. Scumbags? I don't think so, no. Lor'themar has decided to oppose Sylvanas and Baine is simply the lightning rod that is igniting a schism that's been present for some time. Lor'themar doesn't agree with Sylvanas' war and no longer wishes to fight it - a position he now shares with several other leaders and high-placed individuals in the Horde. You can agree or disagree with that, but I don't think it makes him or the Blood Elves as a whole "scumbags."
    The problem is once again motivation, Baine being the catalyst for Lor'themar to act is strange to say the least, it is almost as bad as Baine himself being so worked up over derek, despite the fact there are far more pressing concerns involved. Heck Lor'themar's original text was better then the stuff they currently have and I can only hope they change it again.

  18. #18
    Bob betraying Sylvanas is par for the course and the game emphasizes twice over that he doesn't represent the blood elves as a whole yet, not until 8.2.5 anyway and that Sylvanas is popular with the masses. The issue is his motivation and him becoming a mouthpiece for the writers shilling Baine, despite it being highly out of character as Baine's methods and values and his own do not align. The current lines calling Baine the representation of all that is good in the Horde are abominable.

    Revert it to the original lines and it's fine. It's a Mists rehash anyway, so hoping the end result would be any different is pointless.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-05-08 at 08:15 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  19. #19
    Blood Elves have pretty much always been like that.

  20. #20
    Pandaren Monk Lupinemancer's Avatar
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    Belfs turned into traitors and scumbags
    They've been that way since they betrayed the Alliance and sided with the Horde scum.

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